Is it safe to share my broadband?

ben.schlomo

New neighbour moved in beside me and is just here for a few months and wondered if i would share my connection and she will pay me. Im pretty basic when it comes to this kind of stuff so firstly is it safe? And secondly, will it affect my speed i.e if shes downloading a lot, which i wouldnt imagine she would, i would guess Skype would be her main thing. Thanks for any replies.

srsly78

You have a password on the wifi right? And you want to share this password with your neighbour? Should be ok if you trust them. Note that a technologically savvy user can see a lot of the traffic on the network if they have access. HTTPS secured stuff is still ok tho.

Basically, unless you are the proud possessor of a tinfoil hat (ie paranoid) then it should be fine. You will be SHARING your speed with them, so yes you might be affected. You probably won't notice however unless they start download films via bittorrent or whatever.

phill106

Few words of warning. Anything he accesses on your wifi shows as coming from your router.

He looks any naughty stuff, it is seen as you are.
He hacks the whitehouse website, then you hacked the whitehouse website.

Perhaps I am paranoid, but you never know!

jor el

If it's someone you don't know, then definitely not. Whatever he does, you are responsible for. If he downloads over your cap and your ISP charges for that, you pay. Depending on what he does, it may effect you. And finally, it's against the terms of all ISP's to share your connection with anyone outside your household.

Tell him to get a mobile modem on pre-pay from one of the mobile operators. That's his best bet for short term Internet access, and it's cheap enough too.

JDxtra

Exactly as Jor El says - do not share your connection with your neighbour. They will also get full access to your LAN (computers on your network) by default, so could go snooping or introduce a virus/malware to your PCs (even by accident).

No way, not a chance would I share it.

srsly78

Tinfoil :pac:

Hackers can break into wifi anyway (yes even WPA). They will not ask for your permission first

hardCopy

Just tell him it's for work and you're not allowed to share the connection.

GarIT

ben.schlomo wrote: »

New next door neighbour moved in beside me and is just here for three months (U.S Citizen) and wondered if i would share my connection and he will pay me. Im pretty basic when it comes to this kind of stuff so firstly is it safe? And secondly, will it affect my speed i.e if hes downloading a lot, which i wouldnt imagine he would, i would guess Skype would be his main thing. Thanks for any replies.

Firstly your breaking the terms of your contract there are terms that could have you fined heavily if your caught, of you can be disconnected permanently, I doubt you ever would be caught but your better off knowing the consequences. He could run up a massive bill with heave downloading, and at times where your both using it your speed would be halved between you and him. Also if he's any decent with computers once he is in you network he would have access to any shared folders and would have a good chance of getting to all your other files. Also he could monitor everything you do online, and watch for personal details, credit cards etc. Under Irish law you are also responsible for anything that happens on your connection, If he is illegally downloading videos, music or software, your the one liable for that. Say for example if he downloaded child porn, while he would be the one done for possessing it, you could be done for looking for it, requesting it, accessing it, downloading it and even distribution if he sent it back out through your connection.

Miaireland

I wouldn't to be honest. This is a person that you don't know very well. If he looks up something like child porn etc the Gardai will be coming to your door not his. You don't know this person, don't take the chance.

He could always purchase a pay as you go mobile broadband stick for the three months. They are not that expensive.

gouche

hardCopy wrote: »

Just tell him it's for work and you're not allowed to share the connection.

Why not just tell them no?

No way would I do it. As has been said, anything they do comes back to you and they could gain access to your own home network quite easily.

srsly78

Wow. Ok, so am I breaking the law by sharing my wifi (I alone pay for it - business expense) with my flatmates?

Also, please provide links where people that shared wifi/got hacked have been prosecuted for child porn. Yes the cops have raided some innocent people in the past (but not prosecuted, since they quickly realised their epic mistake), but they are well aware nowadays that the paedos go around hacking wifi (I have a mate that works as forensic IT guy chasing paedos). You think paedos would actually download CP on their own connection? :rolleyes: Wait... the really stupid ones do... Ok my bad.

Not to mention that the router will have logged their mac address (spoofable yes). You could easily prove that it was someone else using the connection. And as stated before - YOU ARE NOT SAFE. Your wifi is never 100% secure.

Stercus Accidit

srsly78 wrote: »

Wow. Ok, so am I breaking the law by sharing my wifi (I alone pay for it - business expense) with my flatmates?

Also, please provide links where people that shared wifi/got hacked have been prosecuted for child porn. Yes the cops have raided some innocent people in the past, but they are well aware nowadays that the paedos go around hacking wifi (I have a mate that works as forensic IT guy chasing paedos). You think paedos would actually download CP on their own connection? :rolleyes: Wait... the really stupid ones do... Ok my bad.

Not to mention that the router will have logged their mac address (spoofable yes). You could easily prove that it was someone else using the connection. And as stated before - YOU ARE NOT SAFE. Your wifi is never 100% secure.

LOL, you haven't a clue.

Once someone is on a connection they aren't tied to by a contract or on a hacked router they torrent like crazy and would do anything they feel like.

Provide links? Get out find your own, there are countless cases of wep protected or open routers being abused and people receiving court summonses with huge legal fees even when they are innocent. Yes people have been arrested and their computers taken because of people using their wifi for child porn, they have been accused by third parties of torrenting copyrighted material, and 1000's demanded from them to avoid court, or they go to court and incur huge fees and time and quality of life lost, and legally, they are responsible for the router anyway!

The mechanism by which wep is bypassed requires a particular type of wireless adaptor capable of packet injections, its not common, shared wifi being abused is common. Tinfoil hat? Maybe a few minutes talking to a network administrator will highlight the plethora things that can be done maliciously on a connection, there's nothing tinfoil hat about it.

Solair

The main risk would be that he'll watch loads of TV / download loads of movies / spend the whole time listening to the radio and max-out your cap and this can run up charges with some ISP.

There's also that risk of torrents being used, and P2P stuff being left open on your network which could expose you to copyright issues.

If your LAN is not secure, you also risk things like viruses etc.

And, if he's using your connection heavily, it will slow down your speed too.

Pre-pay broadband dongle is the best solution for short-term use in Ireland and to be quite honest, 3G broadband in Ireland is pretty good.

Also, many Americans would not necessarily be aware of how easy prepay 3G dongles are to use or that they provide reasonable speed. The US is still a bit backwards with mobile technology and the network operators tend to like to force everyone into a contract. They're woeful at prepay.

Both Vodafone and Meteor seem to offer HSPA+ so they're pretty fast networks in urban / decent coverage areas.

Personally, I wouldn't do it and would just point him towards Vodafone, Meteor, O2 and Three.

D1stant

Question

If the wireless is open and there is no encryption. How does the ISP know from which household traffic is coming from?

A router knows the MAC address, but thats only a local and transient entry in the ARP table. I very much doubt the ISP is correlating between the MAC and the IP flows. In which case the ISP has no way of knowinng who is doing what on an open wifi?

Solair

If it's DSL, the ISP knows which port you're using on the local DSLAM (exchange). It's pretty much the same as how the phone company knows calls are from your line.

Wireless encryption is only for protecting your local area network it's the equivalent of the security on your cordless phone.

If it's cable, there's a unique address on the router.

Also, for your US mate, Three has Skype calling built into its network, so if you need to call home in the US, it can be a really handy way of keeping in touch as callers can reach you without having to call Irish mobile numbers at all.

http://www.three.ie/shop/features/skype.html

GarIT

srsly78 wrote: »

Wow. Ok, so am I breaking the law by sharing my wifi (I alone pay for it - business expense) with my flatmates?

Also, please provide links where people that shared wifi/got hacked have been prosecuted for child porn. Yes the cops have raided some innocent people in the past (but not prosecuted, since they quickly realised their epic mistake), but they are well aware nowadays that the paedos go around hacking wifi (I have a mate that works as forensic IT guy chasing paedos). You think paedos would actually download CP on their own connection? :rolleyes: Wait... the really stupid ones do... Ok my bad.

Not to mention that the router will have logged their mac address (spoofable yes). You could easily prove that it was someone else using the connection. And as stated before - YOU ARE NOT SAFE. Your wifi is never 100% secure.

AFAIK you can share your connection to any device that is on your property. I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted it might never have even happened, all I know is that I was at a computer security conference and they were discussing how outdated Irish law is by the way that the account holder is responsible for everything happening on the connection. I think it's a ridiculous idea to do someone for child porn because someone hacked their connection but that just the way the law is, it doesn't mean its enforced. As I said you'd probably never be done for anything they did on your connection.

D1stant

Solair wrote: »

If it's DSL, the ISP knows which port you're using on the local DSLAM (exchange). It's pretty much the same as how the phone company knows calls are from your line.

Wireless encryption is only for protecting your local area network it's the equivalent of the security on your cordless phone.

If it's cable, there's a unique address on the router.


http://www.three.ie/shop/features/skype.html

Not sure if you were replying to me, but I dont see how this allows the ISP to distinguish between me otr my neighbour on a shared wifi.

We both end up on the same DSLAM port. The BRAS NATs our private addresses to public IP. So how does the ISP know what Im sending versus Joe next door?

GarIT

D1stant wrote: »

Not sure if you were replying to me, but I dont see how this allows the ISP to distinguish between me otr my neighbour on a shared wifi.

We both end up on the same DSLAM port. The BRAS NATs our private addresses to public IP. So how does the ISP know what Im sending verssu Joe next door?

They don't, and I don't think they could, someone would have to hear about what your doing and rat you out.

Freddie59

ben.schlomo wrote: »

New neighbour moved in beside me and is just here for a few months and wondered if i would share my connection and she will pay me. Im pretty basic when it comes to this kind of stuff so firstly is it safe? And secondly, will it affect my speed i.e if shes downloading a lot, which i wouldnt imagine she would, i would guess Skype would be her main thing. Thanks for any replies.

Absolutely NO. WAY. Protect yourself. Don't allow ANYONE to access it.

hardCopy

gouche wrote: »

Why not just tell them no?

No way would I do it. As has been said, anything they do comes back to you and they could gain access to your own home network quite easily.

That is telling them no.

It was an unreasonable request but he's still a neighbour, may as well avoid offending him.

lucernarian

Some of the posts here are "interesting". No one has gone to jail for sharing their internet connection with a closet/unknown paedophile. The burden of proof for criminal law is completely different to civil law and it would take more than an IP log to convict someone?? It's absurd to think that the billpayer in a house would go to trial on behalf of the housemate who was a little too fond of children:rolleyes: the only difference is the fact that the crime took place in your own home and that it doesn't contravene T&Cs.

As solair said, a viable alternative is for the requester to make do with mobile internet dongles. With improved fixed broadband availability and the student broadband offers from UPC and with the number of people who would never use "mobile broadband" again and with increasing masts being used etc., speeds are now more tolerable and consistent nowadays than in the dark days of three's first year in Ireland, in my experience.

And on a pragmatic note, it's been shown that women are less likely to use pornography or to commit child sex offences in general though that obviously does not mean your neighbour is trustworthy on that basis alone. Solair is right in my opinion, it's the bittorrent clients that will do the damage and get the ire of the ISP!

jor el

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Some of the posts here are "interesting". No one has gone to jail for sharing their internet connection with a closet/unknown paedophile. The burden of proof for criminal law is completely different to civil law and it would take more than an IP log to convict someone?? It's absurd to think that the billpayer in a house would go to trial on behalf of the housemate who was a little too fond of children:rolleyes: the only difference is the fact that the crime took place in your own home and that it doesn't contravene T&Cs.

It may not go to trial, but an arrest and search and seizure at your property would be something you'd like to avoid. The IP match would possibly be enough to secure a search warrant, and claims of "It was my neighbour" would be unlikely to stop it.

Sharing your Internet connection with someone that is from another country, only here for a short term, not living with you, and you don't even know them, is a crazy stupid thing to even consider, let alone do it.

lucernarian

jor el wrote: »

Sharing your Internet connection with someone that is from another country, only here for a short term, not living with you, and you don't even know them, is a crazy stupid thing to even consider, let alone do it.

I think it's silly to rule out something before thinking about it (if not considering it), it's ignorant to presume that it must be wrong because other people tell me it is. But I also think it would be silly to to share the internet with a new neighbour. Nothing wrong in thinking about why I wouldn't share it. Informed decisions are not a bad thing you know;)

It's not allowed in every T&C I've ever seen so I don't see why I should break a contract which I signed up to.

The hysteria in some of the posts here is a little OTT, that's my main point.

GarIT

jor el wrote: »

It may not go to trial, but an arrest and search and seizure at your property would be something you'd like to avoid. The IP match would possibly be enough to secure a search warrant, and claims of "It was my neighbour" would be unlikely to stop it.

"It was my neighbour" would probably cause you more trouble because you admit to knowing you neighbour was on it and you didn't go to the police about it.

lucernarian

GarIT wrote: »

"It was my neighbour" would probably cause you more trouble because you admit to knowing you neighbour was on it and you didn't go to the police about it.

But knowing your neighbour uses your internet and knowing what they use it for are two different things right?

GarIT

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

But knowing your neighbour uses your internet and knowing what they use it for are two different things right?

In a way, but Irish law says you are responsible for everyone that accesses your connection. So you have a better defence if you didn't know at all then if you permitted them to use it.

It also could be interpreted that you let them use it without and restrictions, you didn't tell them what they can't do. Then they have your unrestricted permission to use it for whatever they wish.

lucernarian

GarIT wrote: »

In a way, but Irish law says you are responsible for everyone that accesses your connection. So you have a better defence if you didn't know at all then if you permitted them to use it.

It also could be interpreted that you let them use it without and restrictions, you didn't tell them what they can't do. Then they have your unrestricted permission to use it for whatever they wish.

I and someone else have made the point that this interpretation would lead to billpayers being responsible for their householders' actions when criminal law just wouldn't work like that. Also, the onus would be on the accuser to prove the guilt if the law does have such room for interpretation.

What is the exact "Irish law" that discusses this responsibility anyway? For criminal behaviour, the ball game is different and naturally it would take more than sharing an internet connection to be complicit in a crime unless they were told what it's for or else knew and didn't report etc. This means the issue really comes down to whether multimedia rights holders can go after the billpayer for the actions of a neighbour. I'm not sure if anyone was successfully sued in Ireland for sharing copyrighted material with typical internet filesharing programs. But it could well happen and even that's enough reason not to share it with a stranger.

GarIT

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I and someone else have made the point that this interpretation would lead to billpayers being responsible for their householders' actions when criminal law just wouldn't work like that. Also, the onus would be on the accuser to prove the guilt if the law does have such room for interpretation.

What is the exact "Irish law" that discusses this responsibility anyway? For criminal behaviour, the ball game is different and naturally it would take more than sharing an internet connection to be complicit in a crime unless they were told what it's for or else knew and didn't report etc. This means the issue really comes down to whether multimedia rights holders can go after the billpayer for the actions of a neighbour. I'm not sure if anyone was successfully sued in Ireland for sharing copyrighted material with typical internet filesharing programs. But it could well happen and even that's enough reason not to share it with a stranger.

I don't know the exact wording of it, but it says that the bill payer is responsible for any content uploaded or downloaded on their connection. I've never heard of it being used in any court, but just the law being in place would stop me. People in Ireland have been fined small amounts before for file sharing and I think it was all out of court and the people were band (By Eircom) from using the internet from between 3 months to a year depending on the severity of the case.

phill106

Interesting law in germany

http://www.speedguide.net/news/germans-face-fines-for-leaving-wifi-unsecured-3444

lendmeyourear

You do not know the neighbour....you are nice...
sure, share, he will be gone, you will be left holding the baby.

It only costs about 20 euro a month to get a USB mobile broadband key,
they can just dump it when they go... that is a 'to go' one at that.

Learning to say no if one of your best options.