Part 141 or 61

Padlock69

Hi guys,

Planning on heading to do my PPL in Florida in September, I have narrowed it down to 2 schools based on recs from boards as well as friends who have done it all before.

The problem I have is one school offers both a 141 and a 61 PPL, and tell me

"you will definitely want to complete a 141 course, as it will allow you to then complete a 141 CPL (the hour and training are greatly reduced compared to a 61"

The other school which I was leaning towards seem to only offer the 61. I do intend to fly commercially. Can anyone explain te difference and advise which I need to go for?

Thanks in advance.

Wats_in_a_name

I can't tell you the difference unfortunately, but would be interested in knowing the two schools involved.

Padlock69

Wats_in_a_name wrote: »

I can't tell you the difference unfortunately, but would be interested in knowing the two schools involved.

Sure,
www.flyeasa.com (offer both, but recommend 141)

http://www.flyoft.com/ (part 61)

What do you think?

Wats_in_a_name

I've been to both.

Did one flight in OFT with an instructor before I got my license and loved it. Instructor was very good but plane was a typical C150 in questionable condition. The accommodation looked nice but after having billing problems with just one flight and not the nicest of reception staff I decided not to do my PPL there. The ATC in KISM can be a bit short fused.

Instead went to OBA (now easa) and never looked back. Accommodation was a 15 minute walk from the airport and was grand for what you needed. I did my PPL in the Pipers and they were nice planes to fly. Their C150 are looking a bit old though which I suppose is to be expected.

This was back in Oct 08 and I know EASA has been through quite a change since then.

Padlock69

Right, thats good info. I'm Irish so I don't really have the option to go view them before signing up so all feedback is welcome.

OFT have told me I'd be flying in Piper cadets, I wonder does this mean they have upgraded their fleet since you were there.
How big a deal is the condition of the planes when training? does it make things much more difficult?

EASA do look like a great school, but what I like about OFT is that they seem smaller so you would be more than just a number to them. Did you find that they cared about your progress in EASA?

If you are interested I found a good explanation of the 141 and 61 thing.

http://www.circletoland.com/questions/637/what-is-the-difference-between-part-141-part-61-flight-schools

Also, can you give some more details about the billing problem you had, you think this could be a common thing with them?

Wats_in_a_name

I'm Irish too just spend a lot of time in FL.

Another option is TailWheelsEtc based in Winter Haven. Its Redneck central. I did some flying with them in October this year and they were brilliant. There not JAA approved but it seems like your going for the FAA license. Winter Haven is an uncontrolled airfield but there is Lakeland and other airfields nearby where you get tower experience. Airspace is less busy than OMN & ISM so that handy for learning. Airfield can be tough to find though in between all the lakes but if you plan well you'll be fine.

When I was at Easa I was treated brilliantly by no means was just number. Granted I was only 16 when I was over there so I had the cute factor going for me with the dispatch etc but for the first 2 weeks I was my instructors only student and so was flying up to 3 times a day.

If your flying in cadets your laughing. Its more the C150 is quite cramped and long cross countries in the Florida heat its not nice being right up against your instructor.

Basically it was meant to be a discovery flight for $59 worked out at over $200 somehow and they wouldn't give me the discounted price because I had to pay the $59 before take off otherwise it is classed as a lesson. Didn't really mind as the instructor was brilliant and taught me a lot in the 1 hour.

Manic Moran

I do intend to fly commercially

An ATP is 1500 hours in the US, regardless of if you went through Part 61 or Part 141. Simple Commercial, however, is different, so if you just want to do something other than airline flying for money, maybe a Part 141 is more suited.

I took my PPL in 61. Very easygoing, laid back, and it worked. Currently doing IFR under 141 because the government won't pay for my training under 61. It's actually about as flexible as my 61 course was in terms of the hours I can devote to it. There still seems to be enough flex-room in the curriculum for instructor initiative/student request.

As the guy says, same standards, same test, just differeing hours requirements. If you're in a hurry, go with 141. If you're doing it as a hobby/part time gig, consider 61.

NTM

Padlock69

Ive mailed both of them asking if they provide pre / post flight briefing and also if I'll have the same instructor the whole way through. Ill decide which one to go for based on their replies.

Manic, thanks for the info, although I've not been informed that it will make very little difference to me because I intend to go JAA after my PPL anyway,

Wats in a name, are you working commercailly yet or do you intend to? just out of curiousity?

donkey balls

With FLYOBA or what ever their called now you will have the same instructer alot of the lads I know both have a JAA&FAA ppl licence,What they did was fill out some forms head over to daytona hand over $50 and they post you a FAA ppl which remains valid as long as your JAA ppl is valid.

xflyer

It always seemed to me that the 141 courses were fine if you had some ambition to work in the US. In terms of the PPL it doesn't matter at all. 141 is best if you're going for all the ratings in the USA.

As you are returning to Ireland and presumably getting a JAA licence eventually it doesn't matter a damm. It matters more to American residents.

Follow what manic says. 141 tends to be for the more organised commercially oriented flight schools, 61 is intended for average joe learning to fly at weekends in the US. In truth the difference is minimal if you are learning full time. Really part 61 might be better because you get a few extra hours.

Wats_in_a_name

Haven't gone commercial yet and still undecided whether I will go down that route. Might just stay as a private pilot.

If you do get a JAA license you can get a piggyback FAA which is valid as long as your JAA one is.

To do this you have to give the CAA permission to give your details to the FAA. The CAA somehow think that £40 is a suitable fee. The FAA process the application, give you an 'interview' in the FSDO, give you a temporary license & then post you a credit card license for free!

globemaster1986

I recently completed a Part 141 FAA PPL. I personally would prefer that over the Part 61. A number of friends have done the part 61 and have said they also believe 141 is better as it is a more structured course and the periodic stage checks really set you up nicely for the actual checkride. If you intend to fly commercially I would recommend the 141 courses

Padlock69

Wats_in_a_name wrote: »

you do get a JAA license you can get a piggyback FAA which is valid as long as your JAA one is.QUOTE]


Theres nothing like that going the other way is there? I'm going to get my PPL through FAA but I'd love to be able to do a solo back in Ireland afterwards.

Padlock69

Just noticed EASAs part 41 course only includes 35 hours rental time, but since the minimum time for a ppl is 40 hours, are you automatically going to have to pay for further 5 no matter how well you do?

Manic Moran

No.

The Part 141 requirements is a minimum of 35 hours of time in the air. The 40 hours requirement is under Part 61. That said, look into their charging policy if you need more than 35 hours.

On the other hand, I did almost no ground school at all for the Private under Part 61 (Self study only), and Part 141 requires 35 hours, which is another balance to consider.

NTM

Padlock69

Manic Moran wrote: »

No.

On the other hand, I did almost no ground school at all for the Private under Part 61 (Self study only), and Part 141 requires 35 hours, which is another balance to consider.

NTM

So are you saying you wish you had done the 141 because you would have liked more ground school or that you're glad you did the 61 because you didn't have to waste 35 hours on ground school.

I'm having big trouble deciding between EASA and OFT!!

xflyer

Theres nothing like that going the other way is there? I'm going to get my PPL through FAA but I'd love to be able to do a solo back in Ireland afterwards.

Yes you can fly on an FAA licence here. There are some restrictions but too bad.

Manic Moran

Padlock69 wrote: »

So are you saying you wish you had done the 141 because you would have liked more ground school or that you're glad you did the 61 because you didn't have to waste 35 hours on ground school.

I'm happy I didn't need to do the 35 hours of ground school.

That said, I had no way of knowing that in advance. I just happen to have had sufficient background knowledge from years of playing Falcon 4 (:P) which turned out to help me, combined with the self-discipline to actually crack open the books, and not just have them sitting on the shelf in the expectation of knowledge transfer by osmosis.

I'm finding ground school to be a little more important for the IFR course, however.

NTM