Water Charges - Who pays?

RATM

Landlord or tenant ?

Who should pay ?

Landlords typically pay for refuse but on who's shoulders will water fall ?

P_1

I'd say that should be covered under the landlord's management company fee

athtrasna

Totally depends on the wording of the legislation. Sounds like it's going to be a usage based bill so then the tenant would be as they would be the one using the water. There are some questions as to how this is going to apply to managed developments not taken in charge by the local authority.

The flat charge they are talking about bringing in in the interim is another matter as that may be a household charge...but again it depends on the legislation.

Macha

Landlords pay for refuse? Wow, where?

Given that waste, water, electricity and other utilities are payment for a service, the person using the service should pay, ie the tenant. And I say that as a tenant.

Part of the logic in having a charge linked to usage is that it incentivises reduced usage. A lump sum charge is pointless.

jd

Macha wrote: »

Landlords pay for refuse? Wow, where?

Apartment complexes. The management company generally arrange refuse disposal, and the landlord would pay for this as part of his service charge.

silja

jd wrote: »

Apartment complexes. The management company generally arrange refuse disposal, and the landlord would pay for this as part of his service charge.

Yep- in our complex, water and refuse is part of management charges, which I (being the LL) pay.

Ray Palmer

As it is meant to be a user pays situation it will be the tenant. Apartments run into the situation where it will probably be part of the management fees. The problem is they should be introducing meters per apartment and then charge by use like electricity.

Victor

Many modern apartments will have individual meters.

I think it will be tenants who will have to pay.

In the period where it will be a fixed charge, tenants may be paying in rented apartments also.

Monife

Out of curiosity, if you have your own well (my mother does), do you pay water charges?

Victor

Probably not, but there is a suggestion of a charge for septic tanks.

Monife

Victor wrote: »

Probably not, but there is a suggestion of a charge for septic tanks.

Even if the septic tank is nothing to do with the council and maintained by the owner? That's a bit Irish.

Arnold Layne

Landlords typically pay the refuse flat rate, i.e. for the use of the bins but the tenants pay for the usage.

I would think that the landlord would be liable for the installationof the meter but the tenant responsible for payment related to his/her usage

slowburner

Monife wrote: »

Even if the septic tank is nothing to do with the council and maintained by the owner? That's a bit Irish.

athtrasna

Monife wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if you have your own well (my mother does), do you pay water charges?

Nobody knows until the legislation is published. Any opinions offered are purely speculation, we really have to wait and see.

Balmed Out

Dont go building your own well just yet but business's have had water metres for some time so only pay what they take from the system and not anything they get from wells rain traps etc. Id imagine itll be the same.

The_Conductor

RATM wrote: »

Landlord or tenant ?

Who should pay ?

Landlords typically pay for refuse but on who's shoulders will water fall ?

The proposal is that each property will be individually metered, and the occupants charged according to usage.

With respect of refuse- it is normal that a landlord provides access to refuse facilities- but not necessarily that he/she pays for refuse collection. Aka- they provide the wheelie bin- but you pay to get it lifted? In a small number of developments, refuse collection may be included in the Management Charges- however these are gradually being withdrawn as tend to be abused.

Victor

Monife wrote: »

Even if the septic tank is nothing to do with the council and maintained by the owner? That's a bit Irish.

The amount of septic tanks and the amount of dodgy septic tanks is "a bit Irish" also. Do you agree?

Arnold Layne wrote: »

Landlords typically pay the refuse flat rate, i.e. for the use of the bins but the tenants pay for the usage.

It really does vary depending on circumstances.

quietsailor

This charge is going to make for some interesting maths between Landlords and Tenants in the next few years;

take the example of a house near a college, most are rented for the 9 months of the academic year and the LL is lucky to rent a few rooms for the summer, should the LL?

- divide the allowance by 12, calculate what the tenant(s) use each month and charge them extra if they go over that amount.
- Figure out 3/4 of the allowanace (students around UCC are usually 9 month leases) and at the end of the lease figure out if they owe more
-- Can any extra charges be taken from the deposit
- Just let it ride, hope that the 9 month tenants don't use the allowance, charge them if they exceed it and add a little extra to the summer tenants?

This is starting to get scary, USC, NPPR, water rates, there are way too many little things out there that are starting to add up to major drains on our income

The_Conductor

quietsailor wrote: »

This charge is going to make for some interesting maths between Landlords and Tenants in the next few years;

take the example of a house near a college, most are rented for the 9 months of the academic year and the LL is lucky to rent a few rooms for the summer, should the LL?

- divide the allowance by 12, calculate what the tenant(s) use each month and charge them extra if they go over that amount.
- Figure out 3/4 of the allowanace (students around UCC are usually 9 month leases) and at the end of the lease figure out if they owe more
-- Can any extra charges be taken from the deposit
- Just let it ride, hope that the 9 month tenants don't use the allowance, charge them if they exceed it and add a little extra to the summer tenants?

This is starting to get scary, USC, NPPR, water rates, there are way too many little things out there that are starting to add up to major drains on our income

Whatever about the water rates and the house tax- we *need* to reform our tax code. Our system of indirect taxation is past being a joke- I pay far more indirectly than directly- as do most people on the higher tax band (which also kicks in at far too low a level.

Regarding the water tax- it is deeply unfair to implement it, as it is a tax on the usage of a utility- unless they are in a position to measure usage of that utility. Then again- that doesn't stop them having other utility usage taxes that make no sense- such as road tax..........

If they are insistent on implementing this- get any unemployed plumbers on a 6 month contract to plaster meters all over the country- so that people's usage can be accurately gauged. Do away with any exemptions- as evidenced from the bin lift exemptions- they are rife with abuse. Once everyone pays a charge per use- presumably, there is an equal obligation on all, to conserve water.

The whole tenent of this tax- is the 'user pays' principle. Accordingly- it should be the user who pays- providing there is a manner of enumerating the amount of their use. Until such a time as this manner (metering) is up and running- they need to park this measure. If its impossible to park because of EU fines (yet another measure on the list of EU directives that we've been putting off implementing)- then we need to think outside of the box and figure how to get it up and running- a handy way of getting 8,500 unemployed plumbers off the unemployment queues for 6 months by my reckoning.......

Jesus Wept

Macha wrote: »

That's a bit Irish.

Wtf is this shite.

Zamboni

I would really like to see the beginning of mass non compliance.
No riots, no protests. Just no paying. Simples.

I'll pay when I have a metred uninterupted clean water supply.
Until then they can sing for it.

The_Conductor

The-Rigger wrote: »

Wtf is this shite.

Lets remain civil towards one another please.
You know very well what he intended- its the almost uniquely Irish habit of shooting ourselves in the foot at any possible opportunity- and we have a habit of being the turkeys who vote for Christmas...........

Ray Palmer

Wait till you see what happens with meters being installed. The process has to go out for tender so it will be unlikely an Irish company will get it as none will have any experience.
There is a bit of a scam going on with training for installing metres which people think will them get them jobs.