Newbie question about ATC at Dublin

gerdalt

I go to meet a flight at Dublin Airport.
I park alongside runway 10/28 and listen to Ground ATC.
When 'my' flight arrives I used to hear the ATC person say 'good morning Shamrock 123 etc etc' or somesuch, followed by directions to a stand.
I would now know that EI123 has landed.

BUT - in recent times I think the ATC person no longer says the flight number, but rather something along the lines of 'good morning Shamrock 27 Delta Zulu'.
I think two digits followed by some letters. Can't be sure.
So I can no longer recognise the flight I am waiting for

Has something changed? Or am I just very confused?

Bear with me !!!

Ger

highlydebased

gerdalt wrote: »

I go to meet a flight at Dublin Airport.
I park alongside runway 10/28 and listen to Ground ATC.
When 'my' flight arrives I used to hear the ATC person say 'good morning Shamrock 123 etc etc' or somesuch, followed by directions to a stand.
I would now know that EI123 has landed.

BUT - in recent times I think the ATC person no longer says the flight number, but rather something along the lines of 'good morning Shamrock 27 Delta Zulu'.
I think two digits followed by some letters. Can't be sure.
So I can no longer recognise the flight I am waiting for

Has something changed? Or am I just very confused?

Bear with me !!!

Ger

Some flights use those alphanumeric callsigns for a variety of reasons. Often it's because there are flights from other operators using similar callsigns e.g Ryanair 123 and Shamrock 123. That can lead to confusion on frequencies...and it might not just be in Dublin- it could be anywhere from its arrival to its departure airport to anywhere in between.

Sometimes it is part of the old flightnumber with letters added on.... e.g EIN104 (I think) operates as EIN10E

If there's any flight in particular I can find out if it uses alphanumeric or not?

APM

as said before its to avoid callsign confusion. Randomly generated callsigns stick out a lot easier than just 3 or 4 numbers, avoiding wrong aircraft picking up and acting on transmissions not meant for them.

searescue

If it's a P at the end there aren't any passengers on board. The P indicates it's a Positioning flight. E.g. RYR1P.

Also, Aer Arann use them but theirs' are easier to understand.

e.g.:
REA1CK - Cork
REA1SG - Sligo (Not exact flight numbers but you get the idea)

gerdalt

HHmmmm. Thank you for those comments.
But not sure I am any the wiser
If I am waiting for Ryanair flight FR7135 for example, what should I be listening for when the ATC person welcomes them to Dublin?
Can I predict what callsign they will use if they don't use FR7135?
Or is it all designed so that the casual listener is not supposed to know?

Ger

Bearcat

if u were at the fence this morning circa 08:00hrs there were 2 A330s coming in within 15 mins of each other, being the EIN124 and the EIN120 from ORD and MCO. They both take similar routings as they route up towards Newfoundland before crossing the Atlantic en route to DUB. To avoid any confusion with clearances etc with call signs the 120 is called the 12G. There are no double lettering call signs as far as I know. Theres no magic mystery either just clarity and no one taking the other guys clearance in error.

gerdalt

Not to beat this to death but am I missing something?

Say I was at the fence listening to the ATC this morning and I hear that 12G has just landed - 'good morning Shamrock 1 2 Golf'.
How am I to know if that's the 120 or the 124 flight?

Ger

<<I am definitely missing something here!!!>>

tippilot

The simple answer is you wont know. In most cases the numeric portion of the callsign now bears no resemblance to the flight number.

There is actually some joined up thinking behind this. Callsigns for particular flights are now generated using a newly implemented "Deconfliction" software developed by NATS, the ATC provider in the UK. The purpose being to avoid confusion with similarly numbered flights using the same frequency. You don't want flight 1011 responding to and implementing directions intended for flight 1001 etc.

While, it doesn't completely eradicate potential callsign conflicts, it does minimise them. There is after all, a finite number of possible combinations.


For us at the pointy end, it took a bit of getting used to too as I'm sure it did for ATC! Some of those new callsigns just don't roll off the tongue!

tricky D

gerdalt wrote: »

Not to beat this to death but am I missing something?

Say I was at the fence listening to the ATC this morning and I hear that 12G has just landed - 'good morning Shamrock 1 2 Golf'.
How am I to know if that's the 120 or the 124 flight?

Bear in mind that it is not about letting you know, it's about them knowing. ATC and the 2 planes know who each callsign refers to and that's what matters.

gerdalt

AAAhhhh!! Some light at last - for me anyway

It seems that all flights now have two indentifications - one is the flight number (for Joe Public) and the other is a callsign to ensure ATC don't confuse similar flight numbers. This callsign is known to the ATC and the pilot and is two digits and a letter.

OK, the obvious question now is how can I (Joe Public) discover the callsign for a particular flight number?

Ger.

<thinks> the idea of two unique identifiers for one single item doesn't seem too logical.

Su Campu

Not all flights have two callsigns; a lot use the flight number, eg. Shamrock 158, etc. For flights into Dublin, 99 times out of 100 it's enough to know the rough schedule for around the time of the arrival of the flight you're interested in. If you have the list of arriving flights, it'll become pretty clear which which callsign is for your flight by the process of elimination, as the first one or two digits of the will be the same as the flight number.

You could of course use something like frontierflights.com, which show aircraft by their CALLSIGN, not flight number, and by clicking on a plane it willl tell you its route (in most cases)

gerdalt

Just to be very clear - the callsign is for the particular flight - not for the aircraft?

Ger

Su Campu

gerdalt wrote: »

Just to be very clear - the callsign is for the particular flight - not for the aircraft?

Ger

For your normal airline flights, it's for the flight. Private flights usually use the reg of the aircraft.

gerdalt

Thanks to all. I am the wiser!!

Ger.

dannyirish06

if you use a website like flightradar24.com you will be able to see the callsigns for the flights.

gerdalt

Thank you. Great site. Just what I wanted.

Ger