Buying an unregistered pup

BullBauld

Hi there

I recently inquired about buying a pup. I asked if the pups are registered with the Kennel Club and he said no. He said the both parents are registered, one with the IKC and the other with the UK version and that papers etc can be seen, no problem.

But he said he wasn't bothering to register any of the pups. I thought this to be a bit strange. Think he just couldn't be arsed. Sould I be worried and walk away? Or am I making something out of nothing?

Should it be up to the seller to register the pups and if I bought an unregistered pup would I have difficultly in registering it myself provided I had parents papers?

Its not a very common breed here and we have been looking for a pup for a long time but no joy. So there is a temptation to just go for it.

We have checked with breeders through the IKC and no joy.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks
Bull

Toulouse

Only the breeder can register the pups and if you bought one unregistered you would never be able to do it yourself.

To be honest it would be ringing alarm bells with me. I don't consider 'can't be arsed' as a good enough reason for a breeder not to register a pup, in fact I can't think of any reason that would be good enough.

If a registered pup is what you want then stick to your guns. If you are having problems finding the breed here then the UK may be your best best but always make sure that you are 100% happy with your pup and breeder before you buy.

tk123

Walk away. Seriously do. We kind of rushed into getting our guy - I love him more than anything but he has a hock deformity that's cost a lot of time and money to deal with. I think the worry it's caused has outweighed the costs. If we ever get another pup it'll be from a reputable breeder, I'll want hipscores, health certs, I know what to look out for in their legs etc. I'll want to see it awake and interacting with it's brothers and sisters, I'll want to know what it's eating etc etc etc

A reputable breeder will want to register pups to show that they're an excellent breeder, have done all the health checks and are confident to stand by the puppies and build a good reputation for themselves and any dogs that come from them.

crally

Hi be very aware of buying from 'puppy farms' so many dogs with serious health conditions!

toadfly

I would say the reason he isnt registering the pups is because he has bred from the mother too much. They can only register 6 litters for each bitch so if he goes over that he cannot register the pups.

I wouldnt buy a pup from this person, no way.

What breed is it someone here might know of a good breeder?

crally

beautiful german shepard x lab in the laois pound. 10 weeks old look fab and healthy!

smilerf

I wouldnt walk away just look out for tell-tale signs, have your wits abt u and read up on what to look out for

nobody3

Why do you want that particular breed? If its for show I'd guess it would have to be registered so a breeder refusing to register would be a reason for walking away. If you're buying for a family pet then going for a cross breed will usually bring a better temperament and less health issues (cheaper pet insurance to boot).

If the breeder really can't be @r$$ed to register, then definitely walk away.

ISDW

smilerf wrote: »

I wouldnt walk away just look out for tell-tale signs, have your wits abt u and read up on what to look out for

One of the tell tale signs I'd be looking for is the fact that the breeder won't register the pups. There must be a reason for this, as Tillygirl said, the bitch has probably had too many litters already, or is too young or too old for the litter to be registered.

Another reason could be that the breeder of one of the parents might have put endorsements on their papers, so that any pups they ever have cannot be registered. Most reputable breeders will do this, to ensure the pups when they are adults cannot be overbred. THey may be willing to lift the endorsements once the dog has had the relevant breed health tests, and shown that it is a good example of the breed.

If you wouldn't mind putting up what breed it is, I'm sure somone on here could help you with a reputable breeder. Otherwise, contact the breed club for that particular breed and as for accredited breeders.

BullBauld

TillyGirl wrote: »

I would say the reason he isnt registering the pups is because he has bred from the mother too much. They can only register 6 litters for each bitch so if he goes over that he cannot register the pups.

I wouldnt buy a pup from this person, no way.

What breed is it someone here might know of a good breeder?

Thanks for all the replies.
That could well be the reason TillyGirl. It was my girlfriend who was chatting him but she didn't push him as to why he wasn't bothered. But I didn't like the sound of it.

It's an Airedale Terrier we are after. We are not looking to show the dog, just a family pet but want to go through reputable breeders..

tk123

Surely he wouldn't be able to register the pups anyways if both parents are registered with the IKC - so it's not a case of him simply being not bothered so why lie?
Anyhoos Op would you consider a trip to the UK? At least the http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/s site has some actual information on it - unlike the IKC one!

BullBauld

tk123 wrote: »

Surely he wouldn't be able to register the pups anyways if both parents are registered with the IKC - so it's not a case of him simply being not bothered so why lie?
Anyhoos Op would you consider a trip to the UK? At least the http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/s site has some actual information on it - unlike the IKC one!

tk yeah I have looked on champdogs and there are some pups available but obviously would like to avoid the hassle of goin to the UK. But I'm not ruling it out.

lrushe

BullBauld wrote: »

But he said he wasn't bothering to register any of the pups. I thought this to be a bit strange. Think he just couldn't be arsed. Sould I be worried and walk away? Or am I making something out of nothing?

If he couldn't be 'arsed' registering the pups, which in all honesty is a very easy and straightforward process, then you have to wonder what else he couldn't have been 'arsed' doing.
Did he bother getting the parents health screened?
Did he bother giving the mother good quality food while pregnant?
Did he bother to socialise the pups?
Your gut is telling you that there is something to be worried about without anyone else advising you, my advice would be to walk away.

The Sweeper

crally wrote: »

beautiful german shepard x lab in the laois pound. 10 weeks old look fab and healthy!

...and could have both hip and elbow dysplasia waiting just around the corner, plus all the other potential genetic diseases of both german shepherds and labradors. Some breeders do have an 'oops' litter occasionally, where an unintended dog has managed to get to a bitch in season - but ethical breeders will home these puppies, not drop them down the pound.

If the OP wants to buy a pure bred dog from an ethical breeder who's done the health tests, leave him to it.

Creating a demand for only ethically bred dogs with health checked parents will eventually assist rescue by taking away the demand for back yard bred animals. If you take away the demand for back yard bred animals, backyard breeders will stop what they're doing. If they stop, the pounds will empty out, because the genuine 'oops' dogs in the pounds can go to homes formerly occupied by BYB dogs.

Then we'd have the utopian situation where those wanting a purebred dog could get a healthy one, and those wanting a rescue could have a genuine 'oops I need to be rescued' dog and not a simple overspill of supply and demand.

orchidsrpretty

You would have to question it alright. Don't registered pups demand more money than an unregistered pup, so if he went to the trouble of breeding the dog why would he not want to get as much money as possible from the pups. Sounds really dodgy and I would avoid at all costs.

BullBauld

Ok so I got someone else to ring and suss it out too.

When questioned about registration the guy said that because 1 parent was IKC reg'd and the other UK reg'd it would be too much hassle for him to register the pups.

Any basis to this at all? This is our first dog so we are not up to speed yet on the registering process.

Going by all the advice here it looks like we should stay well clear. I would just hate to think that the guy is genuine and we are passing up an opportunity to get our dream dog.

Thank you all for your replies and advice, much appreciated.

andreac

If he was genuine he wouldnt be breeding dogs and not registering the litter because "Its too much hassle".... :rolleyes:

Stay clear, and find a breeder who does want to go to the hassle of registering the pups that he breeds.

ISDW

I don't understand why he would bother going to all the trouble of importing a KC registered dog from the UK, then breed it and not get the dog registered here as well, to enable him to register the pups. Theres something not quite right there I'm afraid.

andreac

Maybe the dogs arent registered at all....

BullBauld

ISDW wrote: »

I don't understand why he would bother going to all the trouble of importing a KC registered dog from the UK, then breed it and not get the dog registered here as well, to enable him to register the pups. Theres something not quite right there I'm afraid.

Well he is actually based in the UK, Northern Ireland. Quite near the border so maybe he just bought one in UK and other in Ireland. I dunno.

andreac wrote: »

Maybe the dogs arent registered at all....

He said both were registered and papers can be seen no bother.

Its quite frustrating at this stage because any Airedale pups we have seen are from champion lines and are expensive, €800/900. We don't necessarily want a champion dog, just one thats bred responsibly and is a nice happy dog.

andreac

There is more to this than just not being bothered to register them. I know loads of people who have KC and IKC registered dogs and can register them withem with little or no hassle so i dont get why he is saying this.

Trust me, there are alarm bells ringing here and i wouldnt buy a pup from him, you are asking for trouble really.

koneko

I don't know, it isn't that much effort to register them, and not doing so would make me wonder if there is effort put into any other part of the breeding, for instance whether the parents would be healthy dogs, pups are kept up to date on worming etc

Is the breed prone to any hereditary problems, and have the parents been tested for this? Haven't done any research on the breed, but if I use the GSD as an example, if a breeder told me registering the pups is too much work, then surely getting the parents hip-scored is too much work too? I'd run a mile.

Pure breeds can cost a lot, but skimping on that can end up with getting a pup from a dodgy breeder, and those pups can end up costing you a lot more (not to mention the heartache when pup/dog becomes ill)

andreac

Do you mind me asking where/how you found this breeder?

koneko

Okay, to add to my post above, a super quick Google on the breed suggests one of the hereditary diseases that can affect them is also Hip Dysplasia, so I'd be careful.

Are the parents hip scored?

BullBauld

andreac wrote: »

Do you mind me asking where/how you found this breeder?

Not sure if I should mention the name - An irish website that sells more than just dogs. Ya know the one.

This is where you tell me I should know better:o

andreac

BullBauld wrote: »

Not sure if I should mention the name - An irish website that sells more than just dogs. Ya know the one.

This is where you tell me I should know better:o

Yes, so please, do yourself a favour and keep your money and try find a reputable breeder because this person is far from it.

BullBauld

koneko wrote: »

Okay, to add to my post above, a super quick Google on the breed suggests one of the hereditary diseases that can affect them is also Hip Dysplasia, so I'd be careful.

Are the parents hip scored?

Thanks for replies Koneko- I don't know if parents are hip scored to be honest, not one of the questions I asked.

Looks like we are better off leaving this alone and making sure of breeders credentials.

lrushe

BullBauld wrote: »

Its quite frustrating at this stage because any Airedale pups we have seen are from champion lines and are expensive, €800/900. We don't necessarily want a champion dog, just one thats bred responsibly and is a nice happy dog.

A reputable breeder shouldn't breed a dog who hasn't earned it's championship so in theory any dog bred right should come from champion lines. In every well produced litter there will be dogs good enough to go on and be shown and dogs who don't quite make the grade and will be sold as pets, you don't have to breed 2 'pet' dogs to create another pet dog.
€800 - 900 is an acceptable amount to pay for a well bred (pet or show)pup when you consider how much it costs to produce. There is the expense of showing the mother until she earns her championship, health screening the bitch, paying the stud fee, extra food and vet bills both while the mother is pregnant and then after the pups are born. Then you have the costs of registering and chippng the whole litter. When done properly breeders are lucky to break even. Also most breeder won't differentate between the cost of a pet pup or a show pup as they cost the same time and money to produce and rear.

BullBauld

lrushe wrote: »

A reputable breeder shouldn't breed a dog who hasn't earned it's championship so in theory any dog bred right should come from champion lines. In every well produced litter there will be dogs good enough to go on and be shown and dogs who don't quite make the grade and will be sold as pets, you don't have to breed 2 'pet' dogs to create another pet dog.
€800 - 900 is an acceptable amount to pay for a well bred (pet or show)pup when you consider how much it costs to produce. There is the expense of showing the mother until she earns her championship, health screening the bitch, paying the stud fee, extra food and vet bills both while the mother is pregnant and then after the pups are born. Then you have the costs of registering and chippng the whole litter. When done properly breeders are lucky to break even. Also most breeder won't differentate between the cost of a pet pup or a show pup as they cost the same time and money to produce and rear.

Hi thanks for this info, very helpful. Doesn't make it sound so expensive after all.

Ok so I'll leave this be I think and take my search somewhere else.

Thanks to everyone for their help/advice.