Arbag Warning Light - Bulb Removed / Covered

Cosmic Penguin

All,

just got a disturbing call from the garage where I have the car in for service.

Their diagnostic is showing that the Airbags are disconnected / faulty, that the seat-belt tensioners are not operational and that the warning light has been covered up / the bulb has been removed.

I bought the car 1 year ago from an indy dealer with high mileage.
Is there recourse available to me? If the car is a write-off based on cost of repair, will insurance cover the cost?

The thoughts of my wife driving around in a car in this condition for the past year has me enraged.

Thanks,

CP

Mr Benevolent

Sounds like the car was already in an airbags-out crash. Lesson learned: Check that the airbag light comes on and goes off.

Cosmic Penguin

Lesson learned for sure

Mycroft H

Unless the vehicle is fitted with mechanical airbags then the airbag light does not need to go on and off

Cosmic Penguin

landyman wrote: »

Unless the vehicle is fitted with mechanical airbags then the airbag light does not need to go on and off

Could you elaborate?

Cosmic Penguin

Cosmic Penguin wrote: »

Could you elaborate?

Google to the rescue - It does not have mechanical airbags

Mr Benevolent

Cosmic Penguin wrote: »

Google to the rescue - It does not have mechanical airbags

Regardless, the car has been in a fairly big crash at some time.

Cosmic Penguin

Confab wrote: »

Regardless, the car has been in a fairly big crash at some time.

Agreed.

Any thoughts on whether there is any recourse to the dealer from which we bought it? I presume the car should be parked up until the issue is resolved, if it can be?

Zubeneschamali

Cosmic Penguin wrote: »

If the car is a write-off based on cost of repair, will insurance cover the cost?

No, you are not insured against buying a dodgy car.

Contact the dealer you bought it from, and explain. If they are an honest crew, the most likely explanation is that they didn't know. They may be prepared to do a deal, refunding you some of what you paid (given that you got a years motoring from the car already).

If they are not an honest crew, then it's solicitor time, engineers report, and lots of headaches.

gazmc18

I am by no means a mechanic btw but how do you know for sure that it was crashed? Maybe it is just a problem with the airbag?

Mr Benevolent

gazmc18 wrote: »

I am by no means a mechanic btw but how do you know for sure that it was crashed? Maybe it is just a problem with the airbag?

If the pretensioners have been fired then it's been in a crash.

gazmc18

I didnt realise they had fired, it just said above that they were not operational. I thought they might of been disconnected or something (again iam not a mechanic i am just guessing)

Did you history check the car, that might reveal some more info?

Cosmic Penguin

Thanks all,

I will contact the dealer and see how that goes.

I did a pre-check on the car, and there was no indication of a crash.

Thanks for all of the responses.

Confab

Confab wrote: »

Sounds like the car was already in an airbags-out crash. Lesson learned: Check that the airbag light comes on and goes off.

Confab wrote: »

Regardless, the car has been in a fairly big crash at some time.

I think you're really jumping to conclusions here.

stevenmu

It doesn't really matter too much if it was crashed or not. It seems clear that the airbags, an important safety feature, are definitely not working, and it's likely that this was covered up.

I'd suggest that there's a very strong argument here under consumer law. Consumer law states that anything sold to you (by a dealer) must be of merchantable quality and fit for it's intended purpose. IMHO a car with non-operational airbags doesn't meet either criteria.

It doesn't matter if the dealer knew about the fault or not, and it doesn't really matter if they were the ones who covered up the bulb or not. Also IMHO the fact that it was a year ago shouldn't matter too much, under consumer law you're allowed a "reasonable" amount of time to discover the fault, and what is considered reasonable will vary depending on the circumstances. You couldn't for e.g. come back a year later and complain that it only has 3 wheels, but for something hidden and hard to spot like this I'd guess a year would be fine.

I think the only problem you'll face is to prove that it was like that when you got it. The dealer could claim that they have no way of knowing if you crashed the car and had the repair done in the year since you bought it from them.

I'd suggest chatting to a solicitor or the national consumer agency for advice on how to proceed. Most likely they'll suggest contacting the dealer directly first to give them the chance to make things right (probably via dealers choice of full refund or full repair), then if that fails solicitors letter and if that fails then to court (depending on the value of the car/repair this could be just the small claims court)

pcardin

Confab wrote: »

Regardless, the car has been in a fairly big crash at some time.

not necessarily. Coud be that just airbag sensor was gone so the light allways stayed on. Bulb was just removed as it is way cheaper than change sensor.

Cosmic Penguin

pcardin wrote: »

not necessarily. Coud be that just airbag sensor was gone so the light allways stayed on. Bulb was just removed as it is way cheaper than change sensor.

I have been able to determine that the car was crashed prior to my purchase

Cosmic Penguin

stevenmu wrote: »

It doesn't really matter too much if it was crashed or not. It seems clear that the airbags, an important safety feature, are definitely not working, and it's likely that this was covered up.

I'd suggest that there's a very strong argument here under consumer law. Consumer law states that anything sold to you (by a dealer) must be of merchantable quality and fit for it's intended purpose. IMHO a car with non-operational airbags doesn't meet either criteria.

It doesn't matter if the dealer knew about the fault or not, and it doesn't really matter if they were the ones who covered up the bulb or not. Also IMHO the fact that it was a year ago shouldn't matter too much, under consumer law you're allowed a "reasonable" amount of time to discover the fault, and what is considered reasonable will vary depending on the circumstances. You couldn't for e.g. come back a year later and complain that it only has 3 wheels, but for something hidden and hard to spot like this I'd guess a year would be fine.

I think the only problem you'll face is to prove that it was like that when you got it. The dealer could claim that they have no way of knowing if you crashed the car and had the repair done in the year since you bought it from them.

I'd suggest chatting to a solicitor or the national consumer agency for advice on how to proceed. Most likely they'll suggest contacting the dealer directly first to give them the chance to make things right (probably via dealers choice of full refund or full repair), then if that fails solicitors letter and if that fails then to court (depending on the value of the car/repair this could be just the small claims court)

Thanks, that is my opinion also

Zubeneschamali

stevenmu wrote: »

probably via dealers choice of full refund or full repair

I don't think there is any chance of getting a full refund after having full use of the car for a year, even if you go to court.

stevenmu

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think there is any chance of getting a full refund after having full use of the car for a year, even if you go to court.

I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I think there'd be a very good chance of a full refund. Assuming that the airbags were non-operational when the OP bought the car, then the OP never at any point recieved what they paid for. With standard safety equipment being a huge part of the car and it's use, the OP never really did have full use of the car.

Zubeneschamali

If I was in the OP's shoes and the dealer offered to take the car back and refund me the original price less a reasonable haircut for what a similar car in good nick would have lost over the year, I would take it.

Especially if it allowed me to avoid lawyers and a court case.

stevenmu

stevenmu wrote: »

I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I think there'd be a very good chance of a full refund.

I think there is none.

Hopefully the OP will update and let us know.

sean1141

i think a year is more than reasonable time to not notice that the airbag light was not coming on when the car was first started. a month maybe but a year is way too long.

stevenmu

sean1141 wrote: »

i think a year is more than reasonable time to not notice that the airbag light was not coming on when the car was first started. a month maybe but a year is way too long.

Only if you know that the light is supposed to come on. A consumer isn't usually expected to be a technical expert and know such things, even if it's in the manual (which the OP may not have recieved). Regular posters on the forum here would probably be aware of the airbag light, but the general population only know that when you start the car a bunch of lights come on and then go out, and they only know there's a problem if one stays on.

Hopefully the OP will update and let us know.

+1, be very interesting to here how it works out.

Cosmic Penguin

I am happy to reporrt that the dealer have asked me to drop it in to them to have their mechanic look at it, and will repair if possible.

Jesus Shaves

Confab wrote: »

Regardless, the car has been in a fairly big crash at some time.

no, it could just be the airbag ecu which needs to be reset,

dgt

If it was in a crash and you said the pre tensioners fired, that means you have no use of the seatbelts?

I bought a crashed car that was "straightened" a few years ago. The pre tensioner had gone off and the belt was cut and used in a sling manner, totally useless and dangerous :mad: I had to stop driving it in november, it wouldnt handle right and would never be the same again

Have a look around the car. A crashed car will either have all new parts in a specific area or 2nd hand parts. My old car was a 1999 car, but had headlights, a radiator and wings that were made in 2005. The gearbox and starter were also changed, the chassis legs were spotless, it got a fair rap with a previous owner.

From what you described it sounds like a fault with the airbag ecu. Some units are faulty from new, turn them off and theyll be on again in a few weeks. It miht be just as simple as that

Jesus Shaves

What kind of car is it, If it's a faulty ECU i might be able to help

Cosmic Penguin

BMW Mini One 2003

Jesus Shaves

Cosmic Penguin wrote: »

BMW Mini One 2003

not the most common of cars, best getting it diagnosed by bmw then if it needs a new airbag ecu sourcing one from a scrap yard or sending it away to get reset, costs 80 euro

Cosmic Penguin

darokane wrote: »

not the most common of cars, best getting it diagnosed by bmw then if it needs a new airbag ecu sourcing one from a scrap yard or sending it away to get reset, costs 80 euro

Thanks

I will see what the dealer has to say and go from there.