New good spec general PC/modest gaming build

slave1

Lads,

Putting together my latest build, I usually build more in the line of HTPC so I'm a bit out of date on the latest CPU/graphics scene.
I networked the house last year and have a dell for the little ones, HTPC for movies/tv etc and the PC I'm replacing for day to day surfing/torrents/modest gaming.
Storage is high on my agenda, I have 9TB on my HTPC, 3TB on my soon to be old PC with 8TB DAS. I'm not into RAID in any fashion, I simple have all my data is two separate locations, works for me. My new PC must have ample hard drive storage. My current PC (Core 2 Quad Q8300) slows up incredibly when I'm copying files (usually 9gig+) from location to location. This is my number one pain at the minute.

I want this PC to last me the next number of years.

What I have spec'd so far...(originally sourced at HW but cheaper at Scan so I think I'll give them a twist).

Case, about €85, took a lot of looking but has my space requirements, top level ports and docking bay.


PSU, about €56


CPU, about €173


RAM, 8 gig about €81, not sure whether 2 sticks of 4 versus 4 sticks of 2?


Primary hard drive, about €103, going for solid state, have one in my HTPC and working well, nice boot times


Motherboard, about €112, obviously I need plenty of SATA connections, some USB 3.0 for future use


Optical drive, around €17, don't need BR, have that on my HTPC


Card reader, cheapo around €7


You may notice I have no graphics card, I do not like ATI so NVIDA recommendations please, as I said modest gaming, FPS only so a decent card that can play onto my Samsung 24" HDMI, not looking for anything outlandish and I will not be interested in OC or water cooling etc. O/S will be W7 64bit.

PC must be relatively quite given it's in the sitting room.

Graphic card recommendation, compatibility issues, thoughts, comments, advice, banter etc all gladly welcomed.
TIA

Telchak

You've gone for a previous generation Core i5 and motherboard, yet are paying the same price that you could get a second generation one for. Look for an 1155 one, like the 2500K

deconduo

Better build from HWVS for cheaper:
€175 - i5-2500k
€100 - ASRock P67 Pro3
€72 - 8GB GSKill RipjawsX
€103 - Crucial C300 64GB SSD
€87 - CM 690 II Advanced
€52 - SF Amazon 550W
€19 - Samsung DVD-RW
€193 - Gigabyte 560Ti OC
€34 - Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B

Overclocking the i5-2500k is ridiculously easy, there's no reason not to do it. It also completely dominates the i5-760 at the same pricerange.

Tehachapi

To the OP - I wouldn't spend over €50 on a coolermaster psu, the one quoted in the post before mine there is much better. Or if you have to order from scan.co.uk, go for a seasonic or antec earthwatts.

slave1

deconduo wrote: »

Better build from HWVS for cheaper:
€175 - i5-2500k
Overclocking the i5-2500k is ridiculously easy, there's no reason not to do it. It also completely dominates the i5-760 at the same pricerange.

Telchak wrote: »

You've gone for a previous generation Core i5 and motherboard, yet are paying the same price that you could get a second generation one for. Look for an 1155 one, like the 2500K

Okay then, pure ignorance going for my original choice so let's put the CPU to rest as I'm bowing to your knowledge here, OC will be for another day. Thanks both.

Case is settled also, as is the RAM, optical drive and SSD.

On the PSU, I'm not pushed on €2/€3 of a difference as I've had happy experiences with CM in the past and the spec of both units is pretty similar so we can put that to bed as well I think.

Motherboard, that looks pretty similar spec so no issue there that I can forsee.

CPU cooler, being straight with ye bundled coolers have done me fine in the past, is the recommendation here to get me ready for a bit of OC or is this an absolute must as I assume the CPU will come bundled with one. My concern here is also on any additional fan noise. Can I assume there is enough space in the case? This review mentions some heartache and space issue on installation.

Finally, the graphics card, being honest given the level of gaming I have time for it looks like a level of overkill for me, I still have Half Life 2 and FEAR somewhere in the house and I've only played the intro levels. I want to be able to play some of the recent games however the detail level is not critical for me.

On the overall budget, the list from HW (exc. graphics/card reader) came in at €642 + 3% PayPal = €661, Scan was €627 so I might take some time out and spec the HW based build with Scan when we tease out the cooler and graphics card.
Thanks for the input so far, didn't expect such response on a Sunday night.

merc.ie

Get some components from the scan Today Only section and you'll save a few euros - http://www.scan.co.uk/todayonly/index.aspx?_s_icmp=AkaIX3H4

There's a £50 Silverstone 500W PSU there atm.

slave1

Absolutely, Scan are very competitive but I'm not pushed on their today only or weekly saver deals as they repeat quite a lot.
I'll wait until I understand CPU cooler and graphics card a bit more before making an order.

Jonny7

The Nvidia GTS 450 passive (quiet)

http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46966&agid=707

slave1

Interesting one that, I don't mind one fan but didn't think there'd be a fanless 1gig card, I'll have to work out the width of the card and how it fits on the motherboard as I need at least one free PCI 1.0 slot free for my eSata port replicator card, nice price too, cheers

slave1

Hmmm, not too many reviews of that card out there, one was reasonably positive and another said never go passive when gaming because the temp spikes up......
What about this 450 here or choose from these ones from Scan, pref. under €100...

deconduo

The larger the cooler the quieter it will be in general. Larger fans over a larger surface area are able to disappate heat at much lower rpms. The case you've picked has plenty of room for the cooler.

If you don't plan on gaming much then yes, the GTX 450 will do you fine. It will struggle with any modern games at 1080p however.

I would still recommend the SuperFlower PSU over the coolermaster one. Its quiter, more energy efficient and a better PSU overall.

slave1

That's for that, at least I'm getting the massive range of graphics cards slimmed down, looks like a 450 at the minute, just which one...
Thanks for the informative post on the cooler, will see if I can get an OEM 2500k so and scout out installation issue with the m/board.
I'm not pushed on the PSU brand, may well get a large cooler so, my main bone is that I can't get that brand from Scan and my order is leaning towards Scan at the minute.
I won't do a bank transfer to HW again after the last experience of one of my items going out of stock and all the grief of phoning them up to change one item on the list, had to wire them a few Euro as my next preference was a bit more expensive, when they got my extra money a separate item went out of stock and they ended up owing me money when I picked a replacement for that, got there in the end but was A LOT of hassle.
My last few orders with HW have therefore been via PayPal which adds 3% and when you add their shipping on top Scan become more cost competitive plus they speak English etc.
I'm going to wait and price the final build as much as 'like with like' as possible between Scan and HW and then phone Scan up and see if they'll do anything for me, they offer free UK shipping for some Forums in the UK so I'll chance my arm and let ye know how I get on, circa €600 order deserves some sort of discount.

Anyhow

slave1

Okay, gonna keep this one simple, I've picked just 450's available from both HW and Scan, so which of the following would ye go for...

Gainward 1GB GeForce GTS 450 DDR5 NVIDIA Graphics CardAbout €100


or this one
Palit 1GB GeForce GTS 450 Sonic OC GDDR5About €100/€110 depending on where I order from
Reviews here

Obviously if there is another card in a similar price range that ye reckon is a much better choice I'll be glad to hear your thoughts.
Thanks

Monotype

£94.40 for a 6770 or for a bit cheaper, the 5770 for £82.28.

The 6770 isn't much different from the 5770 and both should be better than a 450.

slave1

Me no like ATI but thanks for the post.
I totted up a virtually identical spec from both Scan and HW.
As someone pointed out earlier you need to select from the 'today only' page as the same components are cheaper if you order through that page.

HW inc. P+P is €759.98
Scan inc. P+P is €760.88

I saved a lot in Scan from ordering from the today only page and got reduced shipping as a member of AVForums.

No brainer, I went with Scan given the quicker shipping, more reliable stock (avoiding all the grief per earlier post) and English speaking.

I'll post some pics up next week.

Tsukimi

Just curious about Scan's today only page....if I'm ordering parts and they just happen to be on the page (even though I didn't necessary go looking for them there, do I still get the discount? Or do I have to enter in some sort of code?

Burgo

Tsukimi wrote: »

Just curious about Scan's today only page....if I'm ordering parts and they just happen to be on the page (even though I didn't necessary go looking for them there, do I still get the discount? Or do I have to enter in some sort of code?

You have to click buy on the today only page for the discount to take effect, the discounts don't show on the items page, or when you add them to the basket from the item page.

slave1

Jazuz, that was quick delivery from the UK, ordered around noon on a Tuesday (and after their Bank Holiday Monday) and arrived today (Thursday) at noon.
Looks like I'll be building tonite, but alas no OS as I ordered that on Monday from Dublin and it has yet to arrive.

slave1

Hi guys, OS disc finally arrived from Software4students and machine now build and up and running, HOWEVER that dreaded scenario of random freezing.
Freezing at completly random points in time and purely on general PC usage like surfing etc., no common period of usage, temp appears fine, I've been keeping an eye on the CPU and it's between 29-33 all the time. The PC just freezes on whatever screen was being displayed at the time, have noticed on one or two of the freezes that there were square blocks present on screen. Hope I can solve this myself and although it could be anything in theory I suspect RAM or perhaps graphics card.
This is the RAM I got

and this is the graphics card


Would welcome any suggestions ...........
Thanks in advance

slave1

Okay
Ran memtest-86 version 4.0, ran it once and it said no errors, ran it again and the screen filled with various characters, I thin kit was still running but it didn't look right, ran again and okay.
Ran the windows memory test but that only tests 4gig RAM, it came back with no errors.

Temp - I have Vtune installed (came with MBoard) and it says GPU temp is varying between 31-35 whilst just downloading and surfing. Funny this is I left the BIOS screen open for a while and it said my GPU temp was 64?

Ran CheckDisc on all drive and all clean.....

How do ye interpret all the above?

deconduo

Try looking at the CPU and RAM load when it freezes, is it spiking to 100%?

slave1

Can't man, it's a complete freeze, nothing to do except reboot

marco_polo

slave1 wrote: »

Can't man, it's a complete freeze, nothing to do except reboot

Had similar freezing problems like this on my last build but updating BIOS, every driver I could think of and patching OS (was Vista at the time) did the trick. Did so much at once I am not even sure which one actually solved the problem. Could very well be hardware issue but worth ruling out this as well.

slave1

All drivers are the most recent and it's W7 which has all current updates, hesitant on BIOS update at this stage

IrishMetalhead

nvm

marco_polo

Any errors in the Windows event logs around the time of the freezes?

slave1

Don't know, I'll have a look when I get home to see where I can get this info.

slave1

Ha, got the freeze just as I was reading this thread at home.
Went into Event Viewer and I'm not really familiar with it but the only error I could see was
The print spooler failed to share printer Epson Stylus Photo R200 (M) with shared resource name Epson Stylus Photo R200 (M). Error 2114. The printer cannot be used by others on the network.
then
The previous system shutdown at 16:23:04 on ‎20/‎06/‎2011 was unexpected.
then
The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.
then
The print spooler failed to share printer Epson Stylus Photo R200 (M) with shared resource name Epson Stylus Photo R200 (M). Error 2114. The printer cannot be used by others on the network.

I got everything above under "Administrative Events"
So, I don't think the printer has anything to do with it.
Is there another area in Event Viewer where I could gleam some information that could help me?

slave1

I gave Scan a buzz and they emailed the following procedure to run through, to my untrained eye is this more for a problem where your PC is not booting correctly?

Please carry out the following procedure:

Remove the motherboard from the case, remove everything from the board apart from the CPU + heat sink and then clear the CMOS (refer to your motherboard manual for how to do this).

Place the board on a non-conductive surface, plug in the main power connector (usually 24 pin) and any extra power connector (4pin or 8 pin) the case speaker and the power button, and power the system up.

Depending on the board, you may receive a series of POST beeps. Make a note of these.

Add a single stick of memory and power the system again, noting the result.

Finally, add the graphics card (if using one) and again note the resulting POST beeps. Please be aware that you will need to plug in the six and or eight pin PCI-E power connections from your PSU.

Additionally, try swapping as many components as you can with other compatible components (PSU, motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics card) to try to pinpoint the problem.

If you receive no POST beeps at any point or the POST beeps don't change when you add a component, then please contact us.

Note: Some motherboards have voice instructions detailing the problem, such as "CPU not present" and may not have beep codes. In order to hear these, you would need to have speakers connected to the speaker output on the motherboard (if present).

merc.ie

You have an SSD installed? This sounds like it could be a problem with that. If you can, try using a standard hard drive and install windows 7 on that and see if the problem persists

There are other things I've seen recommended for SSD woes:
Install Windows 7 with AHCI enabled.
Update motherboard BIOS.
Update SSD firmware.

slave1

merc.ie wrote: »

You have an SSD installed? This sounds like it could be a problem with that. If you can, try using a standard hard drive and install windows 7 on that and see if the problem persists

There are other things I've seen recommended for SSD woes:
Install Windows 7 with AHCI enabled.
Update motherboard BIOS.
Update SSD firmware.

I ran checkdisc on the SSD and all is fine, I also have the exact same SSD in my HTPC and it's 100%, I'll wait until I've time and then follow your man's request to see what happens in POST, still random freezing last night:(

merc.ie

Having another that works doesn't rule out this one being faulty. Are you sure a checkdisk pass rules out all problems/incompatabilities?

slave1

I hear you, just saying I want to do my best to eliminate the basics per Scan's suggestions before moving onto a hard drive, it could literally be anything...

slave1

Whether this means anything to any of ye guys the PC froze during boot yesterday (twice), I think that could possibly slim down where the fault lies?

deconduo

Probably not from overheating then. If you have a mechanical drive, try installing windows on it and seeing if the problems persist with the SSD unplugged. That would eliminate the SSD as the source.

Fluffy88

deconduo wrote: »

Probably not from overheating then. If you have a mechanical drive, try installing windows on it and seeing if the problems persist with the SSD unplugged. That would eliminate the SSD as the source.

Rather than going to all that bother couldn't you unplug the SSD and put Ubuntu onto a USB and boot into Ubuntu from the USB? Means no messing around with installing windows on a new drive and would be alot quicker and gives the same result.
Just an idea, all the instructions needed are on Ubuntu's website.
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download

kahf1_01

hey, sorry to invade your fourm here, but ok ubuntu is great for downloading for free and installing your OS, ... cos it saves money on windows 7.

But do most comm'on games like cod, assassin's creed, crysis work on ubuntu. Or should you just try and find a "borrowed" copy of windows 7

edit: btw fluffy, you should be awarded a meda herel. I find your advice great and helpful.

Fluffy88

Most games don't run natively on Ubuntu, but a lot of them can be ran on it using different tools. But if you want to play games, don't use Ubuntu as your main/only OS as it will just be a pain. I wouldn't even recommend switching fully to Ubuntu either. Here I was just adding to deconduo's advice since doing the same thing through Ubuntu on a USB would be easier, cleaner and quicker.

Ubuntu as an OS is great, I love it, it's fast, really fast and quite easy to use. You can get almost anything for it and it's all free. Plus I like to support it because so many people have put so much effort into making it for no pay they deserve our respect and support. But I love Win7 too, it feels cleaner and simpler to me and I wouldn't think of building a new computer and not putting 7 onto it.
If you were on a very tight budget maybe I would leave win7 out of the build, but for €45 I think it's worth paying for.


And thank you for that great compliment! But I'm not the one that you should thank it's all the great minds here that share their knowledge of computers and building them so freely, like deconduo, Monotype, Solitaire and lot's of others (sorry if I didn't mention you, I have the worst memory for names a special thanks to anyone I forgot :P ).

deconduo

Fluffy88 wrote: »

Most games don't run natively on Ubuntu, but a lot of them can be ran on it using different tools. But if you want to play games, don't use Ubuntu as your main/only OS as it will just be a pain. I wouldn't even recommend switching fully to Ubuntu either. Here I was just adding to deconduo's advice since doing the same thing through Ubuntu on a USB would be easier, cleaner and quicker.

Ubuntu as an OS is great, I love it, it's fast, really fast and quite easy to use. You can get almost anything for it and it's all free. Plus I like to support it because so many people have put so much effort into making it for no pay they deserve our respect and support. But I love Win7 too, it feels cleaner and simpler to me and I wouldn't think of building a new computer and not putting 7 onto it.
If you were on a very tight budget maybe I would leave win7 out of the build, but for €45 I think it's worth paying for.


And thank you for that great compliment! But I'm not the one that you should thank it's all the great minds here that share their knowledge of computers and building them so freely, like deconduo, Monotype, Solitaire and lot's of others (sorry if I didn't mention you, I have the worst memory for names a special thanks to anyone I forgot :P ).

I have Windows 7 on my destktop and itss pretty awesome and definitely worth the money. Its smoother, safer and more stable than XP (and Vista, but that goes without saying :P ) I would encourage you to get it if you can afford it, and as fluffy said its only €45 if you are a student.

However, I run Linux Mint on my laptop because I find the customizability great and that the battery life is a fair bit better. With WINE you can run games only designed for windows, though you will suffer a performance hit. I can run Diablo 2, Brood War and a few other games on my laptop with no problems, but they are quite old. Games like CoD, Crysis etc. do work as far as I know, though slower than they would on windows.

If you've never used linux before, it can be a bit scary to get used to, especially using the command line. Ubuntu is defintely the distro I'd recommend to try out first, just to mess around with and get a feel for it. Google is your friend as well.

Monotype

Mint is great. I should install it again. I've tried a good few distributions but have fallen away in the past while because MS did a nice job with W7. Kubuntu gives a more windows style layout, so that might be worth checking out.

kahf1_01

I bought that student version of win7, ive got it on my laptop. would I be allowed to get another copy. plus you can't install it straight on. you've got to have a copy of vista, or xp on the machine first. which is a bit of a pain.

Fluffy88

It's one purchase per student on http://www.software4students.ie/ so unless you have a brother/son or sister/daughter which can create a new account, sorry you can't.

And it is possible to install the upgrade version without actually having Vista or XP, google it

slave1

Okay, back to topic of frustration.
I swapped the GPU for a steady GTS8800 and still getting the random freezes so I therefore presume it is not the GPU.

Now onto Scan's recommended action points.

Remove the motherboard from the case, remove everything from the board
apart from the CPU + heat sink and then clear the CMOS
DONE
Place the board on a non-conductive surface, plug in the main power
connector (usually 24 pin) and any extra power connector (4pin or 8 pin)
the case speaker and the power button, and power the system up.
Depending on the board, you may receive a series of POST beeps. Make a
note of these.
RESULT WAS
LONGISH BEEP FOLLOWED BY SHORTER BEEP AND ANOTHER SHORTER BEEP
THIS PATTERN CONTINUES TO REPEAT
Add a single stick of memory and power the system again, noting the
result.
4 BEEPS SLIGHT DELAY THEN ANOTHER BEEP
Finally, add the graphics card (if using one) and again note the
resulting POST beeps.
BEEP A BIT OF A DELAY AND THEN ANOTHER BEEP

I reconnected everything and all back up and 'working' (until the next freeze that is...

I checked the RAM SKU versus the M/Board compatability list and the code is slightly off, I've used so called generic 'non-compatible' RAM before on PCs and never an issue, in addition I have no m/board warnings about incompatible RAM (m/board has light to indicate same).

Will give SCAN a call tomorrow to see if the BEEPS above mean anything, just wondering does it mean anything to anyone here......

slave1

Scan requested an RMA for the m/board, CPU and RAM so it should be interesting to see how their customer service pans out...