Irish qualified props playing for England

irishlad_85

I am watching the England vs Barbarians match and I can't help noticing two Irish qualified props in the England squad. Paul Doran Jones is starting at tight head and Kieran Brookes is on the bench. Paul Doran Jones was born in Ireland, was in secondary school in England but played underage for Ireland and then went to university in Trinity and played in Lansdowne. Kieran Brookes was born in England but represented us at under age level. PDJ can play both side of the scrums and Brookes is a tight head. Although neither is the finished article PDJ is only 26 and Brookes is only 20, both could be considered long term solutions to the problem tight head position but we have now lost them to England for good. With the shortage of props in Ireland and especially at tight head, why have we not more vigorously tried to secure the services of both of them?

Below are the links to both their wikipedia pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Doran-Jones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kieran_Brookes

TheHighRoad

Doran Jones couldn't break through with Leinster, he did have an opportunity although with props it might have been premature to let him go so soon.

GerM

PDJ wasn't born in Ireland. His wiki entry says Enfield but it's actually Enfield, London that he was born in. The only reason he came to play in Ireland was his personal antics dirtied his bib badly and he fell badly out of favour with the English selectors. He never looked too good at Leinster and continued his antics. Enjoyed life off the field a lot and didn't knuckle down at all. A couple of seasons at London Welsh turned him around when he realised at about 22 or 23 that this was his last hope of making it as a pro. He did well and Glos picked him up 2 years ago. He was capped during a propping crisis when England had literally about 7 props out injured.

Brookes played Irish underage but when he turned professional his own country came knocking and he was happy to play with them. When he was available earlier this year the IRFU and the provinces were in touch and attempted to sign him but he chose Leicester understandably.

In short, 2 English blokes who chose to play for the country they were born and raised in rather than Ireland. We made a concentrated effort to sign one and the other wasn't worth the trouble when available.

ambid

GerM wrote: »

PDJ wasn't born in Ireland. His wiki entry says Enfield but it's actually Enfield, London that he was born in...

You mean wiki is incorrect :eek: What are the odds..?!

Great insight GerM. Also prop is somewhere Ireland potentially have quite a lot of quality. Healy and Ross have been outstanding with McAlister, Hagan, and possibly McGrath all developing well. If the others weren't interested in playing for Ireland then it's their loss.

danthefan

GerM wrote: »

PDJ wasn't born in Ireland. His wiki entry says Enfield but it's actually Enfield, London that he was born in. The only reason he came to play in Ireland was his personal antics dirtied his bib badly and he fell badly out of favour with the English selectors. He never looked too good at Leinster and continued his antics. Enjoyed life off the field a lot and didn't knuckle down at all. A couple of seasons at London Welsh turned him around when he realised at about 22 or 23 that this was his last hope of making it as a pro. He did well and Glos picked him up 2 years ago. He was capped during a propping crisis when England had literally about 7 props out injured.

Brookes played Irish underage but when he turned professional his own country came knocking and he was happy to play with them. When he was available earlier this year the IRFU and the provinces were in touch and attempted to sign him but he chose Leicester understandably.

In short, 2 English blokes who chose to play for the country they were born and raised in rather than Ireland. We made a concentrated effort to sign one and the other wasn't worth the trouble when available.

While all this is absolutely corrent, this is not a capped test match so Brookes isn't actually tied to England yet as far as I know. We could still tecnhically poach him, if he had any interest in playing for Ireland.

they were both fairly average anyway...

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

they were both fairly average anyway...

Was scary how easily Brookes was walked backwards. It was if Perugini was scrummaging against thin air. At the engage he just kept trotting forward. Long way to go for Brookes.

roycon

brookes is only very young in fairness. playing for england before he has even properly played premiership is a bit bizarre

whysomoody

Paul Doran Jones story about how he dirtied his bib is certainly worth a read too. I haven't got a link to it though.

Blut2

I knew I recognised his name from somewhere: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-5016838-three-suspended-over-school-porn-video.do

What went through their heads to think that would be a good idea?

profitius

Ireland should concentrate on developing our own props and not looking to England for leftovers. We've more than enough talent in this country.

Jedwardian

profitius wrote: »

Ireland should concentrate on developing our own props and not looking to England for leftovers. We've more than enough talent in this country.

Well said. If Brookes doesn't want to play for Ireland, that's his choice and good luck to him with England, the land of his birth. I'd prefer to look at the prospects of Paddy McAllister, Jack McGrath, Jack O'Connell and Martin Moore