Bus Éireann - New X2 Belfast Express service

foggy_lad

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=960&month=May

Bus Éireann Introduces New Non-Stop Service between Dublin Airport and Belfast

Bus Éireann is pleased to announce the introduction of a new non-stop service from Dublin Airport to Belfast with a journey time of just 1hr 45 minutes.

The X2, which begins on Sunday, May 29th, 2011, will provide customers with the choice of six services each day each way. Customers can depart Dublin Airport as early as 06:45am to travel to Belfast.

This new Expressway service offers customers more choice and availability with a faster, more convenient service between the two locations. It will operate from 29th of May until the 3rd of September inclusive 2011 to accommodate customers travelling over the summer months.

From Dublin Airport, the X2 service operates up to six times daily departing at 06:45, 09:45, 11:45, 13:45, 16:45 and18:45.

From Belfast, the X2 service operates up to six times daily at 07:45, 09:45, 11:45, 13:45, 16:45 and 18:45.

“With this new service, customers can easily and quickly travel between Dublin Airport and Belfast with having to worry about car parking charges or fuel and toll costs,” said Joe Kenny, Regional Manager East, Bus Éireann.

Friday, 27th May, 2011

i wonder will they be looking for more "cash in hand" surcharges on this route like with the Derry Express services? or if they plan to exclude those with Free Travel Passes?

Table 1, Dublin - Airport - Newry - Belfast and return

Bus Eireann is pleased to announce that from Sunday 29th of May, new timetables will operate on the Dublin City/Dublin Airport/Belfast corridor.

Route 1/200 (operated in conjunction with Translink) will operate exclusively on the Motorway between Dublin Airport and Newry and a new nonstop Dublin Airport to Belfast service labelled X2 will offer customers a non –stop option.

Table 1, Dublin - Airport - Newry - Belfast and return is available to download.

So passengers from Drogheda or Dundalk will now have to go to Dublin to get a bus to Belfast or Sprucefield as the bus to Newry is not very frequent and operates only at peak times with a meagre 8 busses a day and no sunday sevice to Newry!


Also there is nothing on the timetable stating there will be suscharges or that free travel passes wont be accepted!

parsi

What do you mean "cash in hand" ? Is there an implication that the driver is taking this advertised surcharge for his/her own use.

I would hope that Free travel passes would be excluded. If you're travelling for nothing then you should be happy to take the slow coach.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

What do you mean "cash in hand" ? Is there an implication that the driver is taking this advertised surcharge for his/her own use.

I would hope that Free travel passes would be excluded. If you're travelling for nothing then you should be happy to take the slow coach.

cash in hand meaning no ticket or receipt issued for the extra fare and why should the disabled and elderly be discriminated against just because they have free travel?

parsi

How is it discrimination to get to use the non-express service for nothing ?

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

How is it discrimination to get to use the non-express service for nothing ?

The level of service should be the same as other members of the public or would you have pass holders herded into a cattle truck for a once a day trip around the county?

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

The level of service should be the same as other members of the public or would you have pass holders herded into a cattle truck for a once a day trip around the county?

I've been clear in what they should get.

If they want the Premium Service then they can pay for it. Just like if Joe Soap wants the Premium Service he has to pay for it. Simples.

foggy_lad

the department are clear on what they should get too

You may use your Free Travel Pass on the transport services listed below at any time.

Dublin Bus (except Nitelink and special airport buses)
Bus Éireann (city services)
Bus Éireann (long distance services)
Iarnród Éireann
DART
LUAS
Certain private bus and ferry services
Certain cross-border services between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Certain services within Northern Ireland (This is only available to passholders over age 66 that hold a Senior Smartpass card - See Appendix 3 for further details.)

You cannot use your Free Travel Pass:

on services not listed in the official rail and bus time tables of Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann or Iarnród Éireann,
on tours and special bus or rail services,
on organised group journeys,
on Dublin Bus Nitelink services,
on Dublin Bus special airport services, and
on First Class or Super Class travel on any service (unless you pay the correct fare supplement).

so unless the services with surcharges are sold and advertised as first class or super class they should be available to all with free travel.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/1WhatistheFreeTravelScheme.aspx

parsi

Well then I better email Bus Eireann and make sure they advertise them as First Class or Super Class.

mgmt

foggy_lad wrote: »

the department are clear on what they should get tooso unless the services with surcharges are sold and advertised as first class or super class they should be available to all with free travel.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/1WhatistheFreeTravelScheme.aspx

You didn't highlight this:

Certain cross-border services between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland

foggy_lad

mgmt wrote: »

You didn't highlight this:

Generally the free travel scheme covers the republic and not the north except for "certain cross border services" which where they are listed in the timetables of irish rail or bus eireann they are included. this does not mean that they can pick or chose which cross border services are included.

also my issue is not with the extra x33 services or the surcharge it is that Bus Eireann are advertising and marketing this service as their own when clearly it is not!

L1011

Bye Bye Enterprise; wonder can we use our DD's on better Rosslare services now

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

also my issue is not with the extra x33 services or the surcharge it is that Bus Eireann are advertising and marketing this service as their own when clearly it is not!

Code-sharing is very common in other areas of transport. BA Market flights to Cork even though they're flown by Aer Lingus , for example.

mgmt

MYOB wrote: »

Bye Bye Enterprise; wonder can we use our DD's on better Rosslare services now

This really is the end of the Enterprise. The bus on the old route was about 10minutes slower, now it will be MUCH faster. How is this going to work for passengers from Bus Aras. Does it depart from Bus Aras, or will it work like Aircoach and you have to change buses?

L1011

The 1 will be the same bus under normal circumstances, obviously to get the X2 which will be even faster on the leg north you'll need to get to the airport - hence I'd imagine the 1 will be faster.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=960&month=May
i wonder will they be looking for more "cash in hand" surcharges on this route like with the Derry Express services? or if they plan to exclude those with Free Travel Passes?

Also there is nothing on the timetable stating there will be surcharges or that free travel passes wont be accepted!

I suspect that Foggy_Lad is falling into his usual mode of seeing all Bus and Coach Operators as Great Satans.

However as we are learning through the Aircoach Balinteer situation the reality is that the DSFA's Free Travel Scheme budget has been capped at 2010 levels.

Just as with the HSE's Fair Deal scheme for care of the elderly,the operational fall out from this is that no new entrants are being funded.

Bus Eireann and Bus Atha Cliath can circumvent this to an extent thanks to the levels of service cuts consequent upon their implementation of the Deloitte Report's recommendations.

However,it appears that no new routes,or entrants are being accepted into the DSFA's lair so it's the beginning of the end for the Butter Voucher methinks.

But,lest Foggy_Lad get all aggrevated over this,just be aware that the UK's Public Transport services are in an equal state of chassis as their funding is under threat to an even greater degree.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

Code-sharing is very common in other areas of transport. BA Market flights to Cork even though they're flown by Aer Lingus , for example.

Indeed but when you buy a BA flight and it is flown by aer lingus you are not asked for mother €50 after boarding(unless you order a drink:D)

As for the situation of reduction in subvention it will only mean severe job losses in CIE as less passengers means less busses and trains and less staff!

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Indeed but when you buy a BA flight and it is flown by aer lingus you are not asked for mother €50 after boarding

Correct.

People are asked to regularise their fare before travel. That includes those morons who have free travel.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

Correct.

People are asked to regularise their fare before travel. That includes those morons who have free travel.

Regardless of free travel you're equating air travel being regularised between companies to bus travel with a surcharge when private companies are operating their separate route, they are two different things completely.

With the air travel price is the same and any airline within the agreement could be flying you London to Dublin etc but with Dublin-Derry bus Eireann operate one route which is 33 and a private operator operates a wholly separate route the X33 and charges a surcharge on top of the bus Eireann ticket cost! This operator is not operating a bus Eireann route or indeed operating as a contractor(on hire to bus Eireann) from what I have been told but is operating their own private route from Busáras under licence from the department of transport.

I would be very interested to hear if people using X33 without having bought a ticket beforehand at the machines or ticket office were sold an actual bus Eireann ticket on board or were sold a Bernard Kavanagh ticket?

Victor

parsi wrote: »

That includes those morons who have free travel.

Why are you using the term "morons"?

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

Why are you using the term "morons"?

Oh dear...an unfortunate choice of words perhaps...but I think I see where Parsi is coming from.....:o

bmaxi

Victor wrote: »

Why are you using the term "morons"?

Methinks Parsi has a difficulty with free travel in general. In my experience people who have difficulty with generosity toward the old, disabled or poor don't belong to any of those categories and don't ever expect to. Time will tell.
I have free travel because I am on Invalidity Pension, I certainly don't use it for a free daily jaunt, not least because to use it entails a trip to the nearest town, to which there is no public transport.
The problem with the free transport scheme is fraud, not genuine numbers, something which will hopefully be addressed in some way by the new DSFCA smart card. I have never once been asked to identify myself by a bus driver or ticket office clerk, indeed the usual response of bus drivers is to look away, so I hope the new cards are smart cards to be read by the validating machine on buses and not just shown to the driver.
I quite frequently have to make trips to hospital appointments in Dublin and in ten years I have not seen an inspector checking tickets on Dublin bus. This was a several times daily occurence when I worked for Dublin City Services. Like everything else if policing and enforcement is removed abuse will follow.

parsi

bmaxi wrote: »

Methinks Parsi has a difficulty with free travel in general. In my experience people who have difficulty with generosity toward the old, disabled or poor don't belong to any of those categories and don't ever expect to. Time will tell.
I have free travel because I am on Invalidity Pension, I certainly don't use it for a free daily jaunt, not least because to use it entails a trip to the nearest town, to which there is no public transport.
The problem with the free transport scheme is fraud, not genuine numbers, something which will hopefully be addressed in some way by the new DSFCA smart card. I have never once been asked to identify myself by a bus driver or ticket office clerk, indeed the usual response of bus drivers is to look away, so I hope the new cards are smart cards to be read by the validating machine on buses and not just shown to the driver.
I quite frequently have to make trips to hospital appointments in Dublin and in ten years I have not seen an inspector checking tickets on Dublin bus. This was a several times daily occurence when I worked for Dublin City Services. Like everything else if policing and enforcement is removed abuse will follow.

You may have noticed that I supported the retention of Free Travel for the over 65s because it is easily policed.

My argument is with what appears to be a unchecked system of issuing free travel passes willy nilly and the proliferation of those passes amongst the skangers of this world - the folk who know all about their rights and sweet-all about their responsibilities.

You've alluded to it in your own post - there's no control and no checking of these passes. I have once seen a skanger deboarding the bus after an inspector took issue with his free travel pass but anecdotally that would seem to be a rarity.

victor wrote:

Why are you using the term "morons"?

An unfortunate choice of words to describe those people who flah the system and fraudulently use the travel passes.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

You may have noticed that I supported the retention of Free Travel for the over 65s because it is easily policed.

My argument is with what appears to be a unchecked system of issuing free travel passes willy nilly and the proliferation of those passes amongst the skangers of this world - the folk who know all about their rights and sweet-all about their responsibilities.

You've alluded to it in your own post - there's no control and no checking of these passes. I have once seen a skanger deboarding the bus after an inspector took issue with his free travel pass but anecdotally that would seem to be a rarity.



An unfortunate choice of words to describe those people who flah the system and fraudulently use the travel passes.

The skangers you describe are in many instances suffering from differing levels of brain injury caused by road traffic collisions or even certain diseases, or suffering severe depression or Schizophrenia etc and are usually on very strong medication not available in your local pharmacy and most do not have any real control over their actions.

Many of these people are in this position through no fault of their own but due to the closing of many places in mental health institutions they are dumped into a system of "care" in a "community" that does not want them in which they feel so insecure as to make their conditions worse! To label them morons is more offensive than unfortunate imho.

As for the topic being discussed, I have said unless these X33 and X2 services are advertised and marketed seperately and as a completly different route then imo Bus Eireann should not be excluding free pass holders.

Niles

While there are plenty of genuine cases out there it has to be said that the system is being abused as well. I recall a few years seeing a DSW pass holder arguing with the bus driver over not being issued with a 10 journey ticket (apparently a memo had been issued stating that they were no longer to do this, only daily/return ones). My point is if he was a free pass holder why would this matter, unless he was to sell the ticket on. Maybe I'm just cynical.

As far as accepting fee passes on the "X" services I'm not sure. Maybe issue them at a discounted rate for those with a free pass (say, the difference between the standard fare and the Express fare)? If you were travelling by train you wouldn't get a free 1st class seat with a pass, I don't see why it should be different here. It's not like there's no alternative to the "X" service.

Strange choice of number for the new service, X2 sounds like an express version of the 002 Rosslare service. As it is an express version of the 001 Belfast service maybe they should have called it BelX1!

bmaxi

parsi wrote: »

You may have noticed that I supported the retention of Free Travel for the over 65s because it is easily policed.

My argument is with what appears to be a unchecked system of issuing free travel passes willy nilly and the proliferation of those passes amongst the skangers of this world - the folk who know all about their rights and sweet-all about their responsibilities.

You've alluded to it in your own post - there's no control and no checking of these passes. I have once seen a skanger deboarding the bus after an inspector took issue with his free travel pass but anecdotally that would seem to be a rarity.



An unfortunate choice of words to describe those people who flah the system and fraudulently use the travel passes.

Not all genuine users of the Free Travel Scheme are over 65, injury and infirmity are no respecters of age. I would be the first to admit, as I have, that there is abuse of the Free Travel scheme but mostly it is due to indifference on the part of those whose duty it is to enforce the law. The inspector you refer to should have called the Gardai and had the offender removed from the bus but probably couldn't be bothered. Chances are they wouldn't have turned up anyway, such is the level of their attention to duty.
Therein lies the problem and it extends from the highest to the lowest level in the public service so perhaps you should target your vitriol there.

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

The skangers you describe are in many instances suffering from differing levels of brain injury caused by road traffic collisions or even certain diseases, or suffering severe depression or Schizophrenia etc and are usually on very strong medication not available in your local pharmacy and most do not have any real control over their actions.

I actually have a workmate who suffers sever depression and bi-polar disease, he is in possession of a DSFA pass, he doesn't use it though, because he drives a car and work a 35 hour week. I have to question why somebody like him needs the DSFA pass, and he questions it himself but as we both agree, you take everything you're entitled to in this life.

In my experience I'd suggest that for every one of those DSFA passholders theres another one who uses the free travel pass in order to take the bus to a methadone clinic, and then take a bus to a town centre to sell the methadone for illigal drugs, and then take the bus to consume on board the illigal drugs they bought and abuse and annoy the general fare paying public.

Posters can take of that what they will, but I see and hear this sort of carry on from DSFA pass holders everyday I commute on the 78a bus route in Dublin. Frankly I'm sick of seeing passengers get a free ride on Dublin Bus services to drink cans, smoke hash, or even in some circumstances inject heroin into their veins.

It is for that reason I can totally understand why parsi chose to use the term morons, even though we know they're not all like that.

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

I actually have a workmate who suffers sever depression and bi-polar disease, he is in possession of a DSFA pass, he doesn't use it though, because he drives a car and work a 35 hour week. I have to question why somebody like him needs the DSFA pass, and he questions it himself but as we both agree, you take everything you're entitled to in this life.

In my experience I'd suggest that for every one of those DSFA passholders theres another one who uses the free travel pass in order to take the bus to a methadone clinic, and then take a bus to a town centre to sell the methadone for illigal drugs, and then take the bus to consume on board the illigal drugs they bought and abuse and annoy the general fare paying public.

Posters can take of that what they will, but I see and hear this sort of carry on from DSFA pass holders everyday I commute on the 78a bus route in Dublin. Frankly I'm sick of seeing passengers get a free ride on Dublin Bus services to drink cans, smoke hash, or even in some circumstances inject heroin into their veins.

It is for that reason I can totally understand why parsi chose to use the term morons, even though we know they're not all like that.

That is only on one bus route! I can say even sleepy Carlow has its share of addicts who travel to Dublin a few times a week for Methodone and who came back on the last bus or on a later Kavanaghs bus and they look wasted and have been known to urinate on the seats due to loss of control.

But for every one of these there are 70 other genuine deserving cases. The scumbags are by no means a majority or even in significant numbers but because of their behaviour they are the only people with the free travel that are really noticed by others and that sticks in people's minds so all who have free travel get tarred with the same brush.

Niles

Some may find this controversial, but sometimes I wonder would it be better if there was a special "methadone bus" run by the HSE on a particular date from certain towns. I don't know how feasible it is, but it if properly supervised it might help towards preventing early resale of methadone, as well as allowing for more restrictive issuing of passes - arguably they mightn't "need" one if transport to the methadone clinic was arranged for them through the HSE.

L1011

They're rolling out methadone via pharmacies instead of clinics nationwide lads. I know of methadone dispensing pharmacies in Tralee, Wexford etc already.

mikemac

BenShermin wrote: »

Posters can take of that what they will, but I see and hear this sort of carry on from DSFA pass holders everyday I commute on the 78a bus route in Dublin. Frankly I'm sick of seeing passengers get a free ride on Dublin Bus services to drink cans, smoke hash, or even in some circumstances inject heroin into their veins.

Sit downstairs some evening and look at who gets on.
Many evenings there are more passengers with passes (and battered pieces of cardboard) then those paying cash or using prepaid

Must be the new Dublin Bus business model :P
No wonder they're losing money!

Who would pay several hundred a year for an annual ticket to share a bus with these boyos.
I didn't renew, several hundred lost to DB and I'm sure I'm not alone.

AlekSmart

feelingstressed wrote: »

Sit downstairs some evening and look at who gets on.
Many evenings there are more passengers with passes (and battered pieces of cardboard) then those paying cash or using prepaid

Must be the new Dublin Bus business model :P
No wonder they're losing money!

Who would pay several hundred a year for an annual ticket to share a bus with these boyos.
I didn't renew, several hundred lost to DB and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Feelingstressed's response to DB's somewhat lethargic attempts to police it's services is one which should be ringing alarm bells in Head Office......but it's not...why ?.....Now therein hangs a tale......!

snubbleste

How much does this service cost, single or return?

Handy for those of us wishing to get to Belfast from outside Dublin without transiting the centre.