Maintenance - to ask for it or not?

chirogirl

Hi,

I'm currently in the latter stages of pregnancy .I'm going it alone as I'm no longer with the Father, as he wants no involvement with the Childs upbringing be it financially or face to face contact. I've accepted his decision. But as I talk to friends about this, they think I should pursue him for maintenance. I'm a little reluctant to do this as I come from the UK and there's a chance if things don't pan out here for the baby and myself that I may have to head back. So if I were to pursue him for financial support I'd be concerned he may try and stop me from leaving Ireland and making life difficult for me.
Just wanted to know what peoples views on this would be.
Thanks!

metrovelvet

chirogirl wrote: »

Hi,

I'm currently in the latter stages of pregnancy .I'm going it alone as I'm no longer with the Father, as he wants no involvement with the Childs upbringing be it financially or face to face contact. I've accepted his decision. But as I talk to friends about this, they think I should pursue him for maintenance. I'm a little reluctant to do this as I come from the UK and there's a chance if things don't pan out here for the baby and myself that I may have to head back. So if I were to pursue him for financial support I'd be concerned he may try and stop me from leaving Ireland and making life difficult for me.
Just wanted to know what peoples views on this would be.
Thanks!

No one can answer this because no one has a crystal ball. Its not the maintenance that gives him the rights its the guardianship.

If you force him to pay mainteance however and he resents it he might want to get his money's worth and use it as an excuse to punish you even if he wants nothing to do with the child.

Delancey

Be aware that failure to pursue the father for maintenance may impact on your entitlements to various social welfare benefits. I don't know if you are / will be working so this may not apply to you.

chirogirl

Thanks for the reply. Yes that thought was at the back of my mind.

chirogirl

Delancey, I'm currently in full time employment, was planning to go part time once I return to work. I didn't realise some benefits are dependent on if the Father pays maintenance. Thanks for the reply.

Sunnyisland

Imo you should go for maintenance from the father,its hard enough to bring children up on your own,why should men who are 50 per cent responsible for fathering a child not have any responsibility in the childs welfare,You wont get any thanks from anyone for not doing it.

Kildrought

It's not your money - it's your child's money, you don't have the right to deny your child either the extra assistance the money will provide or the comfort of knowing that his/her Dad provided for them.

metrovelvet

Kildrought wrote: »

It's not your money - it's your child's money, you don't have the right to deny your child either the extra assistance the money will provide or the comfort of knowing that his/her Dad provided for them.

Excellent point. Up the road you will have to provide a narrative for the father's absence. If you have maintenance at least you can include 'he sends money for you every week' [month, whatever].

Fukuyama

IMO if he's paying you maintainence then he'd have every right to stop if you went to England.

But yeah. He sounds like a prick.

Maintainenece is a sticky issue. In a way, by accepting it you're giving him the right to but in whenever he wants. Without it he wouldn't have this right. Up to you really. Can you do without it?

Also, let's try not have this thread turn into 'all men are bastards rabble'. We all know it's not the case.

chirogirl

Thanks for the replies, its good to get other peoples take on it, that don't know me personally or my situation. Ideally I'd be happy for him to co-parent with me, but he's just not able to do that right now.

January

Dean0088 wrote: »

IMO if he's paying you maintainence then he'd have every right to stop if you went to England.

But yeah. He sounds like a prick.

Maintainenece is a sticky issue. In a way, by accepting it you're giving him the right to but in whenever he wants. Without it he wouldn't have this right. Up to you really. Can you do without it?

Also, let's try not have this thread turn into 'all men are bastards rabble'. We all know it's not the case.

The only way he could stop her going to England would be if he had guardianship of the child, which isn't given automatically to un-married fathers.

ETA: Just re-read your post and, it wouldn't matter if the child was in the country or not, he should still pay maintanence.

ted1

an unmarried father has little to no rights in ireland. He can't stop you from going to the uk. Get the maintenance from him

James Jones

This is not as simple as it seems.

An unmarried father can stop the mother of his children from taking them abroad simply by applying for guardianship. The application does not have to be successful but only has to be made to give the Court jurisdiction over family affairs.

chirogirl, your dilemma is that seeking maintenance will most likely result in a reactionary application for Guardianship, which will probably be granted, so you need to decide if you are willing to risk that before you seek maintenance, if you are serious about going back to the UK.

Personally, I believe that a father who does not want the responsibility of having a child should not be given Guardianship yet should still have to maintain his child but if he applies for Guardianship vexatiously, he will probably get it because this would be difficult to prove. His application for Guardianship will have major implications for you.

metrovelvet

^ Its hard to say 'probably.' I know a few women who applied for maintenance and the father's did not pursue guardianship.

But yes it is a gamble.

Saying that, if he did get it and there was still no custody or access order in place, over time it would demonstrate little or no relationship with the child, and a judge would strongly consider that in making a decision should the father protest a move.

Pinklady11

Just speaking from personal experience I had to go to court to seek maintenance for my son. His father did not seek guardianship rights and I doubt he ever would. (He'd be afraid he'd have to go beyond his 3hr access a week and actually make an effort to be a decent father if he did!!:rolleyes:). Anyway I believe all fathers should contribute towards their childs upbringing, even if they don't want contact with the child. That is their choice, one that I think they'll regret but then again some children would be better off if the father is a good for nothing. You sound like you've a good head on your shoulders and I would urge you to think long and hard about whatever you decide but just remember, it's whats in your childs best interests that matters here.
I wish you the best of luck with your new baby, I'm sure you'll be a wonderful mother.

chirogirl

Thanks for the replies. I actually went to see a family law solicitor regarding the father rights and the childs rights. Yep, as a previous poster said, he wouldn't have any legal rights on the child, only if he applies for Guardianship thats when the situation changes. If he does a U-turn and applies for access/guardianship he would be granted it, as in the eyes of the law, 2 parents are better than 1. She did say that he could try and stop me from leaving Ireland, but only if he had and maintained regular contact with the Child. But as she said, air fares to the UK don't cost much these days. Another interesting point she made was that the Child has future inheritance rights to the Fathers estate. This applies even if he hasn't access/guardianship.

James Jones

chirogirl wrote: »

She did say that he could try and stop me from leaving Ireland, but only if he had and maintained regular contact with the Child. But as she said, air fares to the UK don't cost much these days.

I think you might need to ask your solicitor for any cases that she is aware of or ask another solicitor. I notice she didn't say "yes" or "no". Maybe you might make a printed copy of the answer to this question Can a Child be removed permanently from Ireland without the consent of both Guardians? HERE.
Guardianship and contact are two separate matters that your solicitor seems to be confused about.

EDIT: I just re-read your post and I see that this man is not actually a father yet and so legally is not liable for maintenance.
From a male point of view, its hard for a bloke to come to terms with being a father during a pregnancy but things change when a child is born. Well, they did for me anyway!!!
When your child is born, he might change his view altogether so don't make any decisions just yet.

chirogirl

Yes, I agree its too early to say how things will pan out. Its possible he could do a U-Turn, but at this stage I'm just thinking ahead and covering all bases. Re: solicitor advice, it would only apply if he became a Guardian of the Child.

James Jones

chirogirl wrote: »

Re: solicitor advice, it would only apply if he became a Guardian of the Child.

But by applying for maintenance he may, in turn, apply for Guardianship. If he seeks Legal advice or contacts any support groups this is what he would be advised to do.
Normally, I would advise someone in your position to seek maintenance but given the possibility of your return to the UK, I'd advise caution.

Sit back, relax and enjoy the end of your pregnancy, the birth of your child and the beginning of your new life together.
Leave all the other stuff for another day. When he has a baby and becomes a father, he might run a mile OR he might want to help in any way possible. He might be very passive in this or he might turn into a control freak. He doesn't even know himself yet what it will be like for him so don't worry about the unknown and concentrate on yourself and your baby.
Good luck.;)

metrovelvet

I have to really really back up JJ on that last post. Do not spend your pregnancy worrying about this. You cant do anything about it until the child is born anyway and a lot could change by then.

It would be perilous not to take JJs advice.

ALso- take what solicitors tell you with a huge grain of salt.

Look already at how vague the language is. He only has a chance of stopping you if he has 'regular contact' with the child. What does 'regular contact' mean exactlly? IT means whatever the judge happens to feel it means on the day of the ruling. He might feel a phone call every two weeks is enough to consititute 'regular contact' or he might feel once a month visits is not enough. Such is family law, a big vague swamp.

LegacyUser

I would advise you to look for maintenance as bring up a child is expensive.
Even if you think you can manage on a day to day basis with money from him you never know what can happen in the future. I would advise you to use this money to pay for private health insurance for the baby just in case it has any health problems were treatment would be better soon rather than later ie poor hearing or sight problems.
This money could also be kept to pay for school tours, football, dancing ect.
If you have a child you should be willing to pay for him or her to have the best life possible.
Look after yourself over the next few months and maybe when the baby arrives he/she might change the fathers mind.

I am a friend

If he provides maintenance are you prepared to give him appropriate access to the child?

chirogirl

I am a Friend : Yes absolutley, I've no problem with him having access, co-parenting etc.

sophia25

Of course you have to ask for maintenance. For the following reasons;

1. Your child has the legal and moral right to be provided for by both parents

2. It may help the Father understand that there is a real life to consider and face up to his responsibilities and duties

3. The state should only be used to provide welfare where the parent can't rather than won't support the child

4. It establishes legal paternity and this is a child's birthright and also has wider implications in inheritance etc.

5. Even if this results in him seeking guardianship, it does not mean you can not return to UK. It would mean you may need the court to make a ruling but the court decides based on the best interest of the child. In the absence of a relationship with the father, the court will generally not allow an absent parent to dictate residency for the custodial parent. Judges are not stupid and can see that withholding consent for no reason is a form of bullying. Guardianship, maintenance and custody are not linked and many people are duped into thinking that they may be controlled by ncp if they seek maintenance. This has allowed feckless parents off the hook and has resulted in the state having to assume their financial slack.

6. If it does prompt father to take a proprietary interest in child and then actually have a real interest in child, that is for child's benefit. If the father was to actively co-parent, there may be no need to return to UK for other support in any case.

I agree though, don't over worry until child is born. A real life baby has a way of putting things into perspective that can't be imagined beforehand. Have a plan of action in the background, understand you and babs will be ok and relax and enjoy the rest of your pregnancy. Let things develop at their own pace, you and the Dad don' want to back each other into a corner and dig yourself into hard positions to pull out of.

James Jones

sophia25 wrote: »

Of course you have to ask for maintenance. For the following reasons;

1. Your child has the legal and moral right to be provided for by both parents

Agree

sophia25 wrote: »

2. It may help the Father understand that there is a real life to consider and face up to his responsibilities and duties

Agree

sophia25 wrote: »

3. The state should only be used to provide welfare where the parent can't rather than won't support the child

Agree

sophia25 wrote: »

4. It establishes legal paternity and this is a child's birthright and also has wider implications in inheritance etc.

Agree

sophia25 wrote: »

5. Even if this results in him seeking guardianship, it does not mean you can not return to UK. It would mean you may need the court to make a ruling but the court decides based on the best interest of the child. In the absence of a relationship with the father, the court will generally not allow an absent parent to dictate residency for the custodial parent. Judges are not stupid and can see that withholding consent for no reason is a form of bullying.

Can't agree because of THIS ARGUMENT

sophia25 wrote: »

Guardianship, maintenance and custody are not linked and many people are duped into thinking that they may be controlled by ncp if they seek maintenance. This has allowed feckless parents off the hook and has resulted in the state having to assume their financial slack.

Guardianship does confer a certain amount of control on a parent and may be sought as a result of chirogirl seeking maintenance. Unfortunately, this does allow for feckless parents to be allowed of the hook.

sophia25 wrote: »

6. If it does prompt father to take a proprietary interest in child and then actually have a real interest in child, that is for child's benefit. If the father was to actively co-parent, there may be no need to return to UK for other support in any case.

Agree

sophia25 wrote: »

I agree though, don't over worry until child is born. A real life baby has a way of putting things into perspective that can't be imagined beforehand. Have a plan of action in the background, understand you and babs will be ok and relax and enjoy the rest of your pregnancy. Let things develop at their own pace, you and the Dad don' want to back each other into a corner and dig yourself into hard positions to pull out of.

Agree