CIE at it again at Rosslare - Driving Customers Away

Drimnagh Road

Retiming trains to depart just as ferries are approaching the breakwater at "Ireland's Premier Ferryport", along with moving the station to a desert a mile away won't do anything do encourage foot passengers, but it is unlikely to impact significantly on the books.

However, when one of your major customers - i.e. ferry operators - starts threatening to leave, then that's a different story altoghether...

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/celtic-link-ferries-may-leave-rosslare-2658793.html


A MAJOR ferry company is threatening to pull out of Rosslare Europort unless CIE bring their charges into line with other ports around the country.

Local company Celtic Link Ferries are one of three major companies currently operating out of Rosslare, along with Irish Ferries and Stena Line, and paid €1,546,000 in charges to the port last year.

Senior shareholder Willie O'Leary said the charges at Rosslare Europort - the only port run by CIE - are the most expensive in the country and he said Celtic Link Ferries, a Wexford company, may be forced to move elsewhere, having already received offers from Dublin, Cork and CRH (Concrete Road Holdings), who are developing a port at Arklow.

If Celtic Link were to leave Rosslare Europort it could immediately wipe out the port's profit, which was €1.6 million last year.

Mr O'Leary said that in Rosslare the cost of a truck and trailer coming in or leaving with Celtic Link is €54, while in Dublin - the country's biggest port - it's €26.

He said that even the argument that CIE provide equipment for unloading is not valid as private companies in Dublin charge €12 per trailer for that kind of service, making Dublin a total of €38, compared to Rosslare's €54.

He said Cork is even cheaper again and offered the company a year free if they signed up with them. CRH have also told Celtic Link they'll put a berth in place for them at their proposed Arklow port.

'Every port is cheaper than Rosslare Port, they are charging ridiculous prices,' said Mr O'Leary. He said it's so expensive to operate out of Rosslare that it could be now cheaper for ferry companies there to build their own port than continue to pay the charges.

' When we put this to the management, they told us to go and build one,' said Mr O'Leary. ' They are not interested in reducing prices.'

Mr O'Leary said that management at the port have never shown any interest in developing it in any way and have 'now pushed the boat out so far (in terms of charges) it's uncompetitive to be in the port'.

' The whole place is a shambles, a farce. The workers are good, but the problem is the management, or the mismanagement of the port,' he said, adding that the management there are 'rudderless and spineless'.

Mr O'Leary said that when Celtic Link Ferries took on the RosslareCherbourg route in 2005 the previous operator was generating income of €390,000 for the port.

He said that this has increased four-fold since Celtic Link Ferries put the Norman Voyager ferry on the route, as well as bringing in more business and passengers to the county, but that the management of the port are refusing to budge on the price, setting unrealistic growth targets for the company, during negotiations, for it to avail of any potential discounts.

Mr O'Leary said that while they don't want to leave Rosslare Europort, they may have to and admitted they have already spoken to their customers about the possibility. He said it they move Wexford will lose out'.

'Celtic Link Ferries will be going from Ireland to France, but we don't know if it will be from the port of Rosslare,' he said.

The company is due to take possession of a bigger ferry, with better facilities, in October and crunch time regarding a decision on Rosslare could also arrive before the end of the year.

Mr O'Leary said that while companies like Irish Ferries are primarily passenger driven and also carry freight, Celtic Link are primarily freight driven and also carry passengers.

However, he said they are carrying more passengers than ever as they offer less 'frills' than can be found on the likes of the Irish Ferries Oscar Wilde ferry, but do the crossings to France cheaper than anyone else.

He said they can only continue to offer this ' low fare' ferry service if they can keep their costs in check and a move out of Rosslare may be required to do that, pointing out that the port has already lost one freight company who received a better offer elsewhere.
- FINTAN LAMBE

veryangryman

Not much to do with the topic in hand but....

I hear the words "O Leary", "threatening to pull services out" and "Willie (ie Dick)", it makes me think its an everage Tuesday

seanmacc

It is a very risky move to pull out of Roslare. As soon as they do this they are allowing one of their competitors an arm. There is still a huge deficit of capacity on the French route, you could easily see the likes of Irish Ferries putting another ship on that route and cleaning up. It can also offer some of their competitors an arm into South Wales.

Stonewolf

CIE don't want to drive people away from Rosslare, they want them to do that themselves

DWCommuter

He said it's so expensive to operate out of Rosslare that it could be now cheaper for ferry companies there to build their own port than continue to pay the charges.

' When we put this to the management, they told us to go and build one,' said Mr O'Leary. ' T

If that is true (and I appreciate the tone of the quote and the reality) then it truly sums up CIE and if you can't see that then you are blind and dumb like a lot of other pro CIE heads. The arrogance suggested in this quote is so typical of what I personally witnessed over the years.

Transportuser09

CIÉ's handling of Rosslare Port has got to such a farcical stage that it is a parody of itself. You couldn't make this stuff up. First they make their own rail connection has unmarketable and awkward as possible, now they effectively tell ferry customers to go elsewhere. :eek:

bmaxi

CIE really is the epitome of all that has been said about State and semi-State enterprises, they are run for the benefit of management and employees not for the customer. With the seemingly bottomless pit of taxpayer funding and prime sites CIE could and should be a class act but without some courage in the political arena, what's the point.
I do think there is some of the O'Leary syndrome in this as in every negotiation but Howlin and Varadkar really need to take this crowd by the scruff. I reckon the public, given what we've had to endure already, will be prepared to put up with the antics of disgruntled transport employees, at whatever level, to achieve an efficient system

L1011

Picking up the Arklow bit - surely we don't want ANOTHER barely sustainable port in the country?

Also is it not "Cement Roadstone Holdings" not "concrete road holdings"?

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

Picking up the Arklow bit - surely we don't want ANOTHER barely sustainable port in the country?

Also is it not "Cement Roadstone Holdings" not "concrete road holdings"?

As long as it's not borne by a loss-making tax-payer owned fúck-up of a "company", then why not.

PseudoFamous

MYOB wrote: »

Picking up the Arklow bit - surely we don't want ANOTHER barely sustainable port in the country?

Plans are already solidly in place for the development of this port. An example of this is the "Port Access Road" (Pink), which will travel from the Wexford Road (Red) to the existing harbour. Note the little spit at the end of the first stretch of the pink dotted line going to Roadstone.

Source

I assume that CRH would do the bulk of their sea transportation from their own port, and I imagine Arklow Shipping would happily relocate it's fleet back to Arklow, assuming the port is somewhat competitive vs. Dublin. Of course, there won't be rail links provided, as CIE will not want competition with their port, but no one CAN use the train to get to Rosslare, anyway.

I live in Arklow, so a possible Conflict of Interest may be kicking in here, but I feel this port has the potential to thrive, assuming it's managed and designed properly. The fact it's not being built and run by the state may also indicate that it won't be done arseways.

MYOB wrote: »

Also is it not "Cement Roadstone Holdings" not "concrete road holdings"?

Sure is, according to the sign outside their quarry.

parsi

MYOB wrote: »

Picking up the Arklow bit - surely we don't want ANOTHER barely sustainable port in the country?

Also is it not "Cement Roadstone Holdings" not "concrete road holdings"?

Interesting.

Cork is barely surviving in terms of RoRo so no wonder that it offers a year free to a company which has to add another two hours to its travel time.

Celtic Link / LD Lines does well dropping freight into Rosslare which is why it chose that port. In Rosslare it's French competition is Irish Ferries. If it moves to Cork it faces a superior offering and loses its availability to the Dublin crowd.

dermo88

I think it is blatantly obvious that the CIE holding company solution is hampering the development of the transport system. It worked reasonably well between 1987-2007, but with a shrinking economy, its time that the likes of Rosslare Harbour were sold off, hived off, privatised.....taken out of state jurisdiction.

While it is under CIE hands, berthing charges will be raised to cross subsidise loss making areas within other parts of the CIE group. The optimal solution, which will benefit the customer, state and Rosslare Harbour at once is to break up the CIE group and have the Rosslare Harbour company as a seperate commercial entity.

That way it can be run in an imaginative and commercially inspiring fashion.

loyatemu

parsi wrote: »

Celtic Link / LD Lines does well dropping freight into Rosslare which is why it chose that port. In Rosslare it's French competition is Irish Ferries. If it moves to Cork it faces a superior offering and loses its availability to the Dublin crowd.

Cork's pretty accessible by motorway - according to Google maps its 2'38" from O'Connell Bridge to Ringaskiddy; Rosslare is 2'15".

Brittany Ferries may be superior but its also more expensive again than Irish Ferries. Celtic Link seem to be going for the no-frills Ryanair type crowd.

Niles

PseudoFamous wrote: »

POf course, there won't be rail links provided, as CIE will not want competition with their port, but no one CAN use the train to get to Rosslare, anyway.

When redeveloping the port at Rosslare in the late 80s CIÉ removed any chance of having proper rail freight facilities, with old ones removed and no realisitic way ever installing new ones. So no I don't think it's that likely they'll put it in a connection to someone else's port either. Mind you, Dublin Port managed to get a rail extension recently, though at their own expense, but somehow I can't see that happening in Arklow.

L1011

loyatemu wrote: »

Cork's pretty accessible by motorway - according to Google maps its 2'38" from O'Connell Bridge to Ringaskiddy; Rosslare is 2'15".

The 2 38 is never going to get any lower (and could be made far worse by a delay at NX, Dunkettle or on the SRR) but Rosslare is going to get at least one upgrade (Rathnew-Arklow) in the short to medium term as well as possibly the Enniscorthy BP...

n97 mini

Didn't realise CRH have a two berth port in Arklow since the 1960s.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2009/apr/05/crh-plans-major-east-coast-port-on-200-acre-site/

corktina

Newlands cross, dunkettle and the N28 are all on the list for upgrades.The SRR isnt a problem on this route

Innisfallen

parsi wrote: »

Cork is barely surviving in terms of RoRo

What are you basing that on? Swansea-Cork resumed last year, and did far bette than they expected in their first year (80,000 passangers), ontop of Brittany Ferries crossings to France (which has the highest load factor of all of Brittany Ferries routes).

n97 mini wrote: »

Didn't realise CRH have a two berth port in Arklow since the 1960s.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2009/apr/05/crh-plans-major-east-coast-port-on-200-acre-site/

Problem is, you can't really just decide to build a ferry port, you need a berth (with a linkspan), marshaling yards, customs/immigration and a dredged approach, all of which will take a fair bit of time, and planning permission isn't going to be easy to obtain either....

n97 mini

Innisfallen wrote: »

Problem is, you can't really just decide to build a ferry port, you need a berth (with a linkspan), marshaling yards, customs/immigration and a dredged approach, all of which will take a fair bit of time, and planning permission isn't going to be easy to obtain either....

Most of that seems to be there already, and as it's there I don't think PP to develop a bit more would be that hard to get.

Losty Dublin

MYOB wrote: »

The 2 38 is never going to get any lower (and could be made far worse by a delay at NX, Dunkettle or on the SRR) but Rosslare is going to get at least one upgrade (Rathnew-Arklow) in the short to medium term as well as possibly the Enniscorthy BP...

They would also benefit access for Rosslare Port.

dowlingm

What about Waterford Port (not Belview, the one in the city). Could that accommodate a Ro-Ro/passenger berth for France route ships without too much bother?

As for Rosslare, it adds nothing to CIE since they refuse to leverage it. It and any entailed FRRHC assets should be removed into a separate corporate entity controlled by the DoT with the aim of ultimately dissolving it and its curious relationship with Stena.

Carawaystick

n97 mini wrote: »

Didn't realise CRH have a two berth port in Arklow since the 1960s.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2009/apr/05/crh-plans-major-east-coast-port-on-200-acre-site/

Yeah, rock armour out to the continent, Cu ore back in the days of the mines, Nitric acid in to the quarry works in all stainless steel ships fairly rare that two ships'd be in but I've seen it alright.

Also there's a barge berth on the southern arm of the roadstone harbour.

One minor problem is the right of way to the grotto in the middle of the works....