A few facepalm questions...

shantolog

Hi all,

New to airsoft and have a few questions, I recently got an asg g36c and the battery wouldn't charge after two charges so I bought a new battery (an EP 8.4v 1500mAh). A friend suggested I had the actual charger in upside down (as it's a two pronged plug) and damaged the original battery. This confused me greatly, so my questions are:

(1) I assume the writing on the plug should be the right way up when its plugged into the wall, i.e readable. (hence the facepalm )

(2) the output of the charger I have is 250mA and the battery is 1500mAh, so would be correct to assume the charge time is 1500 divded by 250=6, i.e 6 hours charge time.


Also I'd like to get a Hakkotsu lower mask and goggles to go with it-is it a safe mask to use ( I found this on the internet (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkttAS7R2jU) and is there a pair of goggles to fit the mask perfectly so its completly safe. e.g getting shot up close (ala office block). Any recommendations would be most welcome for masks and goggles.

Thanks in advance for the replys

ronan keane

Just get a Smart Charger it does the maths for you http://www.mwairsoft.net/batteries-chargers/234-swiss-arms-84v-96v-nimh-smart-battery-charger.html

Leftyflip

Doesn't matter what way the chargers plugged in - its AC, the direction of current alternates between 50-60 times a second. Cheapy crappy charger is cheapy and crappy - a half decent ASG one is about a tenner and will do a far better job. But, yes, 6 hours for a full charge.

richieffff

Those masks are really hard to brethe through and are quite ugly in my opinion.

A better option would be some thing like this, it protects the ears and mouth, or a cheaper option of this but it doesn't protect your ears.

Firekitten

You aren't plugging the two prong charger plug directly into your 3 pin wall are you?

Leftyflip

No different than plugging any ungrounded appliance into the socket (hair dryer, speakers, radios, etc).

King John The Last

Add 20% to charge time. Battery should heat up a bit while charging. After 7 hours I would check regularly to see if it is getting even warmer. Plug it out when it gets even warmer. Time how long that takes. Once it gets warmer you have slightly overcharged so take 5 mins off any other times you charge. This assumes that the battery is completely dead.

Or get a smart charger...

shantolog

ronan keane wrote: »

Just get a Smart Charger it does the maths for you http://www.mwairsoft.net/batteries-chargers/234-swiss-arms-84v-96v-nimh-smart-battery-charger.html

Leftyflip wrote: »

Doesn't matter what way the chargers plugged in - its AC, the direction of current alternates between 50-60 times a second. Cheapy crappy charger is cheapy and crappy - a half decent ASG one is about a tenner and will do a far better job. But, yes, 6 hours for a full charge.

Firekitten wrote: »

You aren't plugging the two prong charger plug directly into your 3 pin wall are you?

Leftyflip wrote: »

No different than plugging any ungrounded appliance into the socket (hair dryer, speakers, radios, etc).

King John The Last wrote: »

Add 20% to charge time. Battery should heat up a bit while charging. After 7 hours I would check regularly to see if it is getting even warmer. Plug it out when it gets even warmer. Time how long that takes. Once it gets warmer you have slightly overcharged so take 5 mins off any other times you charge. This assumes that the battery is completely dead.

Or get a smart charger...

yea I was plugging the two pronged plug into the wall but always assumed it was safe, being doing it for years:D.

I bought a new charger with the new battery also but having looked at the smart charger I think I'll have to get one - although the charging instructions from King John the Last is being cellotaped to my box as we speak .

shantolog

richieffff wrote: »

Those masks are really hard to brethe through and are quite ugly in my opinion.

A better option would be some thing like this, it protects the ears and mouth, or a cheaper option of this but it doesn't protect your ears.

Yea I quite like the ear protection on that mask actually - is there a brand or type of goggle that goes with it? Although both would have to take a shot from quite close as I'd prob be playing in the office block at some stage. have you used it yourself?

richieffff

I've used the one without ear protection and it is a lot better than any solid mask, you can brethe right through them, and its taken plenty of bb's from close range, so have my goggles but they are sun-glasses style ones that I use, not to sure what would be a good cloice goggles for indoors, maybe someone else can suggest something?

Rooky1

Just thoght I would stick this up here for you!:D

Just type in battery capacity and your chargers charging rate and press 'calculate'.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/batterychgcalc.html

NakedDex

Leftyflip wrote: »

No different than plugging any ungrounded appliance into the socket (hair dryer, speakers, radios, etc).

It is different, but more to do with safety than function.
Not all chargers are double-insulated (as they should be if they lack a ground pin), but more importantly, none of the European type plugs (round pins) are the same dimensions as the UK type (ours). To put one into a wall is actually stretching the pins apart, which potentially breaks or shorts the connection on the transformer in the plug top.
It doesn't always happen but, y'know, a fused adaptor is €1.50 so why risk it?

shantolog wrote: »

New to airsoft and have a few questions, I recently got an asg g36c and the battery wouldn't charge after two charges so I bought a new battery (an EP 8.4v 1500mAh). A friend suggested I had the actual charger in upside down (as it's a two pronged plug) and damaged the original battery. This confused me greatly, so my questions are:

(1) I assume the writing on the plug should be the right way up when its plugged into the wall, i.e readable. (hence the facepalm )

(2) the output of the charger I have is 250mA and the battery is 1500mAh, so would be correct to assume the charge time is 1500 divded by 250=6, i.e 6 hours charge time.

What your friend suggested wouldn't make sense unless he/she meant the connection between the charger and the battery, rather than the plug-top itself, and even then you're somewhat protected from that mistake by the connector only fitting properly in one (the correct) way.
It's safe to say you can discount that as a possible problem. It's far more likely your charger has simply broken in some manner. I'd point to what I mentioned above about the transformer connections being weakened or broken, maybe even shorted, by the act of putting it into a wall socket as a possible explanation.
Another explanation is that the battery pack itself has failed somehow, again possibly from a short circuit causing the cells to self destruct (without the dramatic "boom").
The only way to be sure is to either try charging another pack with your charger, charging your pack with someone elses charger or, and this is the best option, use a multimeter to determine the output voltage of the charger, and the stored voltage of the pack. The charger should be putting out whatever voltage is marked on it's information label, while the battery pack should be no lower than 7.8V for a discharged but healthy pack and no higher than 9.4V for fully charged but healthy pack (+/-.2V).

As for your assumption on the calculation, you are spot on. Battery current, divided by charger output current, gives you time in hour units for full charge.
It's a rule of thumb, since you'll rarely have a completely depleted battery so the actual charge time will be shorter, but it's perfectly fine to work by until you get a smart charger or you're so inclined to do some maths to work out the charge time.
Personally, I'm an advocate of the smart charger option, but then I hate working out formulae (I get enough of that in work...).

King John The Last wrote: »

Add 20% to charge time. Battery should heat up a bit while charging. After 7 hours I would check regularly to see if it is getting even warmer. Plug it out when it gets even warmer. Time how long that takes. Once it gets warmer you have slightly overcharged so take 5 mins off any other times you charge. This assumes that the battery is completely dead.

None of this makes sense...

King John The Last

The charge calculator agrees with me NakedDex. Batteries are not fully efficient at taking charge. Some energy is lost as heat (thats why battery and charger are warm). Most charge calculators include this.

NakedDex

They also assume the battery is completely depleted, which is also an error. As is their disregard for cell chemistry and it's appropriate process.
Accounting for thermal dissipation in dry cell packs when charging is a needless complication. The difference is negligible in a healthy pack at room temperature.

Technically, packs should be charged after voltage testing to determine their state, deep cycled where necessary, charged appropriate to their chemistry and temperature monitored during charge cycles for safety reasons.
In the real world, you either divide the pack capacity by the charge current, or buy a smart charger which does most of the above for you.

Charge calculators are a fine reference, but if you're not online, then a simple bit of mental division will give virtually the same result.


Here's another useful rule of thumb for battery packs; a stock AEG will generally have an efficiency ratio of 1-1.5 rounds fired per 1mA of battery capacity (higher end for better equipped rifles with bearings etc).
Ergo, if you have a fully charged 1100mAh pack and you've only fired, say, 110 rounds, you've only used a max of 1/10th available power so it hardly needs a charge at all, nevermind seven hours.

King John The Last

Yes, I did assume battery the battery was fully dead, I said that. All ill say is, if its hot plug it out.

Firekitten

Leftyflip wrote: »

No different than plugging any ungrounded appliance into the socket (hair dryer, speakers, radios, etc).

When you routinely work with 415volts, at 125 amps,

Earth safety is vital.

Chargers tend to be the cat one appliances.... need an earth really. I'd be happy if it was double insulated, but few are. All I can say is... bbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

The One Who Knocks

shantolog wrote: »

Hi all,

New to airsoft and have a few questions, I recently got an asg g36c and the battery wouldn't charge after two charges so I bought a new battery

Please ensure the switch on the socket is "ON" as shown in the picture

Disclaimer: This may not fix your problem.

shantolog

Jamez735 wrote: »

Please ensure the switch on the socket is "ON" as shown in the picture

Disclaimer: This may not fix your problem.

Is it not like this so??

shantolog

NakedDex wrote: »

It is different, but more to do with safety than function.
Not all chargers are double-insulated (as they should be if they lack a ground pin), but more importantly, none of the European type plugs (round pins) are the same dimensions as the UK type (ours). To put one into a wall is actually stretching the pins apart, which potentially breaks or shorts the connection on the transformer in the plug top.
It doesn't always happen but, y'know, a fused adaptor is €1.50 so why risk it?



What your friend suggested wouldn't make sense unless he/she meant the connection between the charger and the battery, rather than the plug-top itself, and even then you're somewhat protected from that mistake by the connector only fitting properly in one (the correct) way.
It's safe to say you can discount that as a possible problem. It's far more likely your charger has simply broken in some manner. I'd point to what I mentioned above about the transformer connections being weakened or broken, maybe even shorted, by the act of putting it into a wall socket as a possible explanation.
Another explanation is that the battery pack itself has failed somehow, again possibly from a short circuit causing the cells to self destruct (without the dramatic "boom").
The only way to be sure is to either try charging another pack with your charger, charging your pack with someone elses charger or, and this is the best option, use a multimeter to determine the output voltage of the charger, and the stored voltage of the pack. The charger should be putting out whatever voltage is marked on it's information label, while the battery pack should be no lower than 7.8V for a discharged but healthy pack and no higher than 9.4V for fully charged but healthy pack (+/-.2V).

As for your assumption on the calculation, you are spot on. Battery current, divided by charger output current, gives you time in hour units for full charge.
It's a rule of thumb, since you'll rarely have a completely depleted battery so the actual charge time will be shorter, but it's perfectly fine to work by until you get a smart charger or you're so inclined to do some maths to work out the charge time.
Personally, I'm an advocate of the smart charger option, but then I hate working out formulae (I get enough of that in work...).



None of this makes sense...

Thanks NakedDex very informative and detailed - much appreciated, yes I'm defo getting a smart charger, seems so much simpler than the other option.