Wedding venue gone into receivership

moco

Just got a call from our hotel yesterday to say they've went into receivership. I don't exactly know what this means! They said everything will carry on as normal, but I don't know how they can predict that as our wedding is 2 years away. They won't give us our deposit back if we pull out now. Any advice? Has this hapened anyone else? :mad::(:mad:

username123

What kind of a deposit did you pay - I would hope absolutely minimal for something so far away? In this climate all deposits should be absolutely minimal in case the business go bust - its the only sensible option these days.

It might be ok, CityWest is in receivership for a good while now and still trading and operating as normal. If the receivers can continue to turn a profit they may continue to run the place as a going concern.

If the place goes into liquidation you will be another creditor in a long line of creditors to whom money is owed and you may or may not get something back.

What are the terms under which you paid the deposit? Was it fully non refundable or how was it done? If it wasnt non refundable then maybe you can get it back and cancel altogether. Did you sign anything? Did you get a receipt? Maybe if you have a receipt you could cancel and take them to the small claims court? It really depends on what you signed etc..

moco

We paid €1500 over the phone on our debit card. The deposit was non refundable. We got a reciept by e mail and we signed our contracts

username123

moco wrote: »

We paid €1500 over the phone on our debit card. The deposit was non refundable. We got a reciept by e mail and we signed our contracts

When was this? You might have a case here if the hotel knew it was facing receivership and still took your money.

I dont mean this as harshly as it sounds but its madness to pay that kind of money as a deposit for something TWO years away in the current economic climate!!!

What does the contract say about cancellation?

moco

It just says that the deposit is non-refundable if you cancel. We paid on the 5th of May, this month.

The deposit wasn't bad compared to the other hotels we were looking at. I'm on the border, and the rest were wanting £2000. We had no choice in how much to pay, and as the venues were starting to book up for the date we wanted, we had to pay the deposit.

I'd heard rumours a couple of months ago that the hotel might be closing and I rang the manager 3 times to discuss this. On each occassion he swore blind they were only rumours that had been circulating for a long time and the hotel would never close as it's doing such fantastic business. :rolleyes:

The hotel are saying at the minute that they're going to continue to trade and all booked weddings will happen but i don't know how I can trust that!

username123

moco - Id advise you to take legal advice on this one. Your wedding is too important to mess around with, you dont want to just be 'hoping' that its all ok. It might be better to pull out now and use a solicitor to try to get your money back.

Its very very suspect that the manager continued to assure you all would be ok then suddenly it went into receivership - although he will claim that he had no idea (and maybe he didnt).

If your wedding was next month or even this year it might be better to wait, but 2 years away is too long for that kind of uncertainty.

moco

I spoke to the hotel again there, and they said KPMG who are the recievers asre sending out official letters to everyone today, stating their wedding will go ahead as planned, with no change to the conditions and to the same standard as they saw in the hotel when they booked their wedding.

If it was you, would you be happy enough with that letter?

Oh and when I mentioned on the phone about what the manager told me before I booked they said 'you asked if the hotel was closing, and it isn't'.

Fair enough I didn't ask 'Is the hotel going into receivership?', but he know what I meant!

username123

No. I would not be happy with that letter at all.

See a solicitor.

antiskeptic

moco wrote: »

I spoke to the hotel again there, and they said KPMG who are the recievers asre sending out official letters to everyone today, stating their wedding will go ahead as planned, with no change to the conditions and to the same standard as they saw in the hotel when they booked their wedding.

If it was you, would you be happy enough with that letter?

The company I work for went into receivership with KPMG. They didn't spend a cent more than they had to in order to keep the very basics running. They will shed staff, not carry out building maintenance, trim materials purchasing costs (which inevitably means quality degradation in food, wine, service .. in the case of a hotel).

If I might use an aircraft analogy. The general idea of receivership is to use the 'altitude' gained by the business pre-recievership to power the planes flight - but without adding anything more than the minimum fuel (money). An integral part of achieving this goal is to glide the plane downwards towards the ground.

If KPMG manage to sell the business as a going concern before it hits the ground - fine (although you couldn't bet on what the new owners plans might be for the hotel). If KPMG don't manage to sell it - also fine. KPMG will take their fee from the wreckage.

There is no way you could safely plan on your wedding taking place in two years time. Not if the hotel is in receivership. If you check out the detail of KPMG's letter (or follow up in the case there isn't any detail), you'll likely find the promise comes with an exit clause. And that exit clause is a return of your deposit - should the hotel close. How soon that might be is another matter - you'd be low on the list of creditors (after Revenue, KPMG, banks etc)

I'd get onto my solicitor.

D3PO

OP to break it down in its most basic form for you.

KPMG will have appointed a receiver to your hotel. This person will essentialty, work in the background, looking to

a) find a buyer of the hotel
b) to restructure the day to day operations in such a way that the hotel can continue to run long term as a going concern.

The fact that a receivor has been appointed rather than a liquidator indicates one of two things

a) the hotel itself is a profitable business and they feel a buyer can be found. Take Citywest for example. It as a stand alone entity is profitable yearly the reason it is in trouble is debts loaded onto it by the Mansfield group for non hotel related activities.

If the situation is like this then a buyer should be found eventually. that buyer will essentially negoitiate a writedown of debt with the banks and end up with a profitable business.

the other possibility regarding your hotel is

b) it is on the knackers heap however the bank that essentially now owns it needs to keep it open to protect against the tax breaks provided for the building of it. I couldnt tell you either way what that would mean for a wedding two years down the line.

What I can tell you is this.

your €1,500 deposit is unsecured. If the hotel goes wallop your at the back of the line to get any of this back. Realistically you wont get any of it.

HOWEVER any money recieved by the hotel from now on has to be garanteed by the reciever and any new monies recieved by the hotel from now are secured creditors.

the comments about the reciever cutting down on food quality etc is not based on fact. The recievor doesnt work at the operating level of food sourcing etc and anybody that tells you otherwise has never worked with or spoke to a recievor.

Talking to your solicitor isnt really going to help here. You basically have two options cancel the date and swallow the loss of deposit and book somewhere else (whos to say the new hotel you book wont end up in the same situation) or sit it out hope that hotel stays operating and if it doesnt have a backup plan just in case.

P.S Hope you had taken out wedding insurance

drunkmonkey

Ring your credit card company and get them to do a chargeback it's a bit messy but you'll get your money back. Do not leave a penny with a business in receivership.

Whispered

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ring your credit card company and get them to do a chargeback it's a bit messy but you'll get your money back. Do not leave a penny with a business in receivership.

I would be surprised if the CC company can do this. The dispute is between the merchant and the customer. The CC company would have no reason to be out of pocket as far as I can see.

Maybe if the customer goes on the insurance of the card, but I'm not sure what her rights are considering the wedding has not been cancelled. Usually the insurance only covers damaged goods/non-existent goods etc. I'm not sure if the hotel going into receivership would count.

Toots

Whispered wrote: »

I would be surprised if the CC company can do this. The dispute is between the merchant and the customer. The CC company would have no reason to be out of pocket as far as I can see.

Maybe if the customer goes on the insurance of the card, but I'm not sure what her rights are considering the wedding has not been cancelled. Usually the insurance only covers damaged goods/non-existent goods etc. I'm not sure if the hotel going into receivership would count.

AFAIK it would only work if the hotel were to cease trading. At the moment the hotel is still saying they will adhere to their end of the contract so at the moment the OP has no right to request a chargeback.

I noticed further up the thread that they said they paid using a debit card. Unfortunately if this is the case there's no comeback as regards a chargeback if the hotel goes bust in the morning.

spurious

I just spent a weekend in an hotel that went into receivership almost three years ago.
It doesn't have to mean it stops trading.

Tayla

spurious wrote: »

I just spent a weekend in an hotel that went into receivership almost three years ago.
It doesn't have to mean it stops trading.

True, but imagine the stress of planning a wedding knowing that your venue could cease trading at any time.


What is the cooling off period for these types of things?

I would ring your credit card company straight away.

Planning a wedding should be fun (although stressful) but that is not the type of stress that any person should have to go through while planning their wedding and it is extremely unfair of them to expect you to play it by ear.

I would absolutely kick up a stink about it.

jaffa20

Tayla wrote: »

I would ring your credit card company straight away.

.

As explained above by Toots, the cc provider won't be able to do a chargeback. The hotel are still trading and are as it stands, able to provide a service for the deposit paid.

Tayla

jaffa20 wrote: »

As explained above by Toots, the cc provider won't be able to do a chargeback. The hotel are still trading and are as it stands, able to provide a service for the deposit paid.

Well she actually said AFAIK so it was implied that Toots wasn't 100% sure.

With the money only after being paid less than 1 month ago I would try anything I could tbh

Toots

The OP paid by debit card so they have no comeback as far as chargebacks go, even if the hotel ceases trading.

Tayla

I have a Visa debit card which does in fact offer a chargeback policy so offers significantly more protection than some other debit cards, maybe the OP has one of those? She didn't say what type of debit card she had.

Whispered

Tayla wrote: »

I have a Visa debit card which does in fact offer a chargeback policy so offers significantly more protection than some other debit cards, maybe the OP has one of those? She didn't say what type of debit card she had.

I work in the fraud dept for a visa debit company, we would tell the OP that they have no comeback in that situation from the bank. Even if the company stops trading, it's still considered a disputed transaction. ie - they'll be told it's between them and the receiver. The only time we can give money back is when there is fraud. The way it works for us is the visa debit is pretty much the same as a laser or cash card when it comes to disputed transactions and it offers no further insurance than you would have had from using your cash card. Customers are highly protected from fraud but if the customer decides to spend their money somewhere, well that's their decision.

I know that sounds harsh but that's the way it is where I work.

I don't know what level of protection the OP has on her card but afaik very few visa debit providers insure in the same way as visa credit providers. If you have one that offers charge-back Tayla thats fantastic, I sincerely hope the op has a card like that.



OP - the above is based only on where I work, so please don't let it put you off contacting your bank and at least trying. It could be different elsewhere and is worth a try at the very least.

jaffa20

@Whispered, are you sure about that? There probably is a separate chargeback/disputes departement aswell as your fraud dept.

Any issuer of a visa debit/credit card have to offer the facility of a chargeback if there is a chargeback right as per Visa Europe Rules.

In any case, the company have to cease trading before anything can be done by the card issuer as the hotel are still upholding their side of the contract.

AshAdele

Hey OP,

I just received a letter from my Hotel saying they have gone into receivership with KPMG.

What has happened with your wedding plans, did you stay with the hotel? did you try to cancel?
did you get your money back?
are they still trading?

We booked 2 months ago and our wedding is in Sept 2013. Im very worried that they wont survive till then now!

moco

Hi, I forgot I'd even started this thread! We're still with this hotel and they're still going strong. The had the bar all refurbished last week. I feel quite happy and confident that they will still be trading this time next year when the wedding is. I have a friend who was at a wedding there a couple of months ago and they said the food and standards of service are as high as ever. What hotel have you booked, or would you rather not say?

AshAdele

Thanks for your reply,
I wont name the hotel as I dont want to give them a bad name, Im going to keep an eye on the hotel over the next few months, hopefully it will be sold quickly and I can be assured on the standard being kept!

slowmoe

AshAdele wrote: »

Thanks for your reply,
I wont name the hotel as I dont want to give them a bad name, Im going to keep an eye on the hotel over the next few months, hopefully it will be sold quickly and I can be assured on the standard being kept!

If its the hotel i'm thinking of then its become public knowledge that its in receivership, kpmg want to keep it running but it had about 50 million in debts so a lot of uncertainty about its future. In a county starting with k?

Scary times though, hope it works out for you xxx

budhabob

Sorry to revive an old thread, but it contains lots of relevant information to the situation we are now in.

Our wedding is 2 months off, and just heard (and had confirmed) that our wedding venue has gone into receivership as of yesterday. Pretty panicked now. Thankfully there are some good news stories in this thread that give me some hope.

If anyone has any up-to-date information on this area I would greatly appreciate it. I am concerned that standards may drop etc, its just additional stress that we could really do without at the minute.

clint_silver

budhabob wrote: »

Sorry to revive an old thread, but it contains lots of relevant information to the situation we are now in.

Our wedding is 2 months off, and just heard (and had confirmed) that our wedding venue has gone into receivership as of yesterday. Pretty panicked now. Thankfully there are some good news stories in this thread that give me some hope.

If anyone has any up-to-date information on this area I would greatly appreciate it. I am concerned that standards may drop etc, its just additional stress that we could really do without at the minute.

I wouldnt worry about it, normally the reciever goes in and sees how its being run, if he's not happy he brings in pro guys anyway to make sure standards dont slip to try and keep the business going. If anything the standards might improve if you think about it that way.

budhabob

clint_silver wrote: »

I wouldnt worry about it, normally the reciever goes in and sees how its being run, if he's not happy he brings in pro guys anyway to make sure standards dont slip to try and keep the business going. If anything the standards might improve if you think about it that way.

Thanks for this. Any kind of positive slant on the situation is great. I only heard at lunch today, so was in a fair bit of shock. Kind of coming to terms with it now. Will give them a few days to process the information and will make contact again, they seemed just as disappointed as me on the phone.

littlelulu

budhabob wrote: »

Thanks for this. Any kind of positive slant on the situation is great. I only heard at lunch today, so was in a fair bit of shock. Kind of coming to terms with it now. Will give them a few days to process the information and will make contact again, they seemed just as disappointed as me on the phone.

We got similar news months before our wedding and it was all perfectly fine, if not better. There are a lot of hotels in the same boat. I would ask to meet with the General Manager and discuss your concerns. He/she should give you the scenario and reassurance.

Honestly, I wouldn't be concerned at all. Its a terrifying thought initially but after a week or so you will forget about it Relax and enjoy the build up

blindside88

budhabob wrote: »

Sorry to revive an old thread, but it contains lots of relevant information to the situation we are now in.

Our wedding is 2 months off, and just heard (and had confirmed) that our wedding venue has gone into receivership as of yesterday. Pretty panicked now. Thankfully there are some good news stories in this thread that give me some hope.

If anyone has any up-to-date information on this area I would greatly appreciate it. I am concerned that standards may drop etc, its just additional stress that we could really do without at the minute.

Is it mount wolseley by any chance? If so you'll be grand.

budhabob

blindside88 wrote: »

Is it mount wolseley by any chance? If so you'll be grand.

No its not. I am just off the phone with the wedding coordinator and I feel more confident now. Panic is gone. Should be getting clarifying correspondence in the post over the next couple of days.

Zeppi

Mount Wolesely staff weren't paid today.



http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/ij_news_more_details/petition-to-appoint-an-examiner-mount-wolseley-hotel-golf-and-country-club

budhabob

Zeppi wrote: »

I don't think so have a look here

http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/ij_news_more_details/petition-to-appoint-an-examiner-mount-wolseley-hotel-golf-and-country-club

Sorry for the confusion, my "no its not" was in relation to the fact we have a different hotel. Sad news about the mount wolseley.

blindside88

Zeppi wrote: »

Mount Wolesely staff weren't paid today.



http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/ij_news_more_details/petition-to-appoint-an-examiner-mount-wolseley-hotel-golf-and-country-club

Jesus. They have a major golf event there in the summer which will bring in big revenue. I'm assuming the bank will want it kept open until at least after that. Sorry to drag off topic OP

olearyj1

Anyone out there dealing with Dundrum House Hotel in Tipperary, seems they have gone into receivership since last week, would be interested to hear from any couples who have got bookings with them, please pm me.