French cars on BBC Watchdog last night

n97 mini

For anyone that has a French car, it turns out that it could be even more badly made than you first thought (especially if it's a Megane in light of the window regulator problems as highlighted by RTE).

BBC's Watchdog last night showed that the front seat passenger in most French cars are able to activate the brakes due to a design flaw (laziness imho) whereby the French decided to leave the brake master cylinder on the passenger side and connect a lever to it under the dash from the driver side.

More info here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13566999

If I had a French car I'd check this out as a matter of urgency as my passengers are my responsibility.

racso1975

This is a problem going back years. I managed to do it in my dad's renault savanna as a weee whipper snapper. Needless to say he did not have a clue what happened and i never said a thing due to the torrid verbal abuse the car got

Gregor Samsa

As LHD to RHD conversions go, it could have been worse:

colm_mcm

We haven't learnt much from the toyota recalls. Safety is important but cars like the 206 launched in the 90s are gonna suddenly cause pileups on the motorways!
I'm pretty sure that in 99.99999% of cases you'd have to make a conscious effort to make the car stop.
Granted the c3 Picasso is an exception, but I can see this one getting silly, especially when older less valuable cars are involved. Every second ad on sky at this time of day is about getting compensation off the big boys

Vicxas

I do remember this in my mams old peugeot.

Mycroft H

Mountain out of a molehill really.

I wouldn't be concerned even when there is two citroens at home, and as said you would have to make a concerted effort to do this as a passenger.

pajo1981

n97 mini wrote: »

If I had a French car I'd check this out as a matter of urgency.

Being an idiot, I bet you would and all.

EPM

pajo1981 wrote: »

Being an idiot, I bet you would and all.

Attack the post, not the poster.

You have had enough bans around here to know that.

cadaliac

n97 mini wrote: »

For anyone that has a French car, it turns out that it could be even more badly made than you first thought (especially if it's a Megane in light of the window regulator problems as highlighted by RTE).

BBC's Watchdog last night showed that the front seat passenger in most French cars are able to activate the brakes due to a design flaw (laziness imho) whereby the French decided to leave the brake master cylinder on the passenger side and connect a lever to it under the dash from the driver side.

More info here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13566999

If I had a French car I'd check this out as a matter of urgency.

Jesus - why, whats going to happen? Will the car explode? or do you just not like French cars?

mullingar

n97 mini

cadaliac wrote: »

Jesus - why, whats going to happen? Will the car explode? or do you just not like French cars?

As I frequently transport other people in my car, including my children's friends (15-16 y.o.), I would have to think twice about letting any of them sit in the front in case they caused an accident.

Why, would you not feel some sort of responsibility towards your passengers?

Rovi

Somewhat OT: I seem to remember something like this in an old Fiat, many years ago; 126 or 127 perhaps?
The interesting thing with those however, was that it was the throttle that the passenger could 'override'. Oh, we had some 'fun' with that

Tea 1000

n97 mini wrote: »

As I frequently transport other people in my car, including my children's friends (15-16 y.o.), I would have to think twice about letting any of them sit in the front in case they caused an accident.

Why, would you not feel some sort of responsibility towards your passengers?

If you had a 10 year old French car affected by this, would you not think that you'd have seen it in at least one of your 23,462 journeys?? Or does the fact that it was on Watchdog make the car in the driveway go "OK, now's our chance... they know about us now!!"
Get it checked sure, but your sensationalist post is fairly pathetic, and akin to the American sensationalist crap when Toyota had a recall because of floor-mats.

keithclancy

Wow .. secondary brake pedal !!!

They should charge extra !!

Intructors pay a fortune for those dual controls :pac::pac::pac::pac:

n97 mini

Tea 1000 wrote: »

If you had a 10 year old French car affected by this, would you not think that you'd have seen it in at least one of your 23,462 journeys??

The kids wouldn't have been allowed sit in the front until recently. Circumstances change.

I gather the people trying to rubbish me or my post are owners of French cars? I'm only the messenger.

Practical

On my old 99 Seat toledo, the front seat passenger could control the throttle or prevent the driver from accelerating using their toe!!
There is a bar connected to the throttle accessible when the passenger rested their feet in a certain position.

pajo1981

n97 mini wrote: »

The kids wouldn't have been allowed sit in the front until recently. Circumstances change.

I gather the people trying to rubbish me or my post are owners of French cars? I'm only the messenger.

I don't own a french car and I still think your post is worthless.

colm_mcm

I only owned one french car, mostly japanese. I think its good people know about this, but don't think It's something to panic about.

Guy:Incognito

mullingar wrote: »

Nah they're grand sure their little legs cant reach far enough to hit the brakes.

fryup

colm_mcm wrote: »

I only owned one french car, mostly japanese. I think its good people know about this, but don't think It's something to panic about.

is it now that its out in the open, i'm sure they'll be plenty of brats out there ready to give it a go whilst daddy is driving

anyway the citroen c3 has been out for yonks and never heard any complaints like this before

Daegerty

It's a feature, not a bug.

They should market these in america where most of the drivers are asleep at the wheel but unfortunately the passenger won't be pushing the extra brake either as they most likely on the phone

colm_mcm

fryup wrote: »

is it now that its out in the open, i'm sure they'll be plenty of brats out there ready to give it a go whilst daddy is driving

anyway the citroen c3 has been out for yonks and never heard any complaints like this before

I mean I dont have a problem with the op's thread. My feelings on the issue are on page 1. Op seems to be getting a hard time.

slimjimmc

n97 mini wrote: »

BBC's Watchdog last night showed that the front seat passenger in most French cars are able to activate the brakes due to a design flaw (laziness imho) whereby the French decided to leave the brake master cylinder on the passenger side and connect a lever to it under the dash from the driver side.

More info here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13566999

If I had a French car I'd check this out as a matter of urgency as my passengers are my responsibility.

LOL.. the BBC article doesn't say MOST French cars, it says more French cars.
A total of 8 models (6 if you consider some are mere spec variants of the same car) , while far too many, does not equate to most French cars now does it?
In case you don't realise how many models of French car there are on the roads in the UK here's my list of recent models sold in the last 5yrs (excluding the multitudes of trim variants and commercials) ...

PUGs : 107, 206, 207, 307, 308, 407, 508, 807, 3008, 3008, 4007, 5008, RCZ,
CITs : C-zero, C4 Mk I, C4 MkII, C5 Mk I, C5 MkII, C-crosser, C1, C3, c3 -picasso, c4 -picasso, grand c4 -picasso, c6, C2, C8, DS3,
RENNYs: Megane II, Megane III, Safrane II, Safrane III, Twingo II, Twingo II, Clio III, Espace IV, Fluence, Laguna II, Laguna III, Scenic II, Scenic III

Although this situation should never have arose in the first place I wonder how big a danger this 'problem' really is e.g. the 206 has been built and sold into the UK since 1998 so why are only hearing about it now? I've one of those pre-2004 Meganes which supposedly can have a braking effect if pressure applied in the wrong place, but I'm damned if I can reproduce it.

robtri

pahh no more dangerous than the handbrake....

kid technically could lift it while driving....

Del2005

Daegerty wrote: »

It's a feature, not a bug.

They should market these in america where most of the drivers are asleep at the wheel but unfortunately the passenger won't be pushing the extra brake either as they most likely on the phone

It doesn't affect the Yanks only RHD French cars.

Absurdum

robtri wrote: »

kid technically could lift it while driving....

they shouldn't be driving in the first place :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

galwaytt

..what a load of nonsense.

Most cars in the world are designed on the drawing board, as LHD. This affect's everything from pedal position, steering wheel angle and position, switch position's, pedal positions and even wiper arrangement.

Eh ? Wiper's ?

Yes, take the BMW 5 series. The wipers are for LH countries, and sweep to top l.h. corner of windscreen, leaving top r.h. corner unswept. You know, the side the driver sits on.

But it's not just BMW - loads of mfrs to this as it's 'not worth' re-engineering the car for RHD wiper setup.

Will we see a spate of wet-weather crashes caused by errant LHD wiper patterns on Watchdog next ??:rolleyes:

Solnskaya

colm_mcm wrote: »

I only owned one french car, mostly japanese. I think its good people know about this, but don't think It's something to panic about.

Was that the Renault Carina you used to have Colm?:D

partyatmygaff

Buy German next time... :pac:

Felt covering a brake line sounds pretty shoddy tbh.

slimjimmc

Solnskaya wrote: »

Was that the Renault Carina you used to have Colm?:D

More like a Renault Qashqai.

maidhc

Why do some manufacturers act like it is a complete shock that they never countenanced that a car might be sold in RHD.

Other lazy engineering includes:

BMW 5 series wiper (already mentioned)
Early MkII Golf wiper (VW had the decency to resolve this)
MB 190 Turbo diesels (never made it to RHD because it woudn't fit, although I think TB Turbo could manage it...)
MB GLK (never made it to RHD)
Lots of Citroens and Pugs (offset driving positions, wipers, general kludges)
Every car except old British cars and JDM imports (wipers and indicators wrong way around)

The french in generally seem to be the worst offenders, possibly because their engineering skills are at times mediocre, and possibly because their nationalistic tendencies preclude them from recognising that some countries are different to them.

Solnskaya

slimjimmc wrote: »

More like a Renault Qashqai.

I'm fairly sure a Cashcow Qashqai is pretty much a Renault anyway. Has Nissan not gone over to the dark side lately?

shannon_tek

Im disappointed now to find out my car 306 is not affected. was really hoping to go out tomoro and sit into the passengers side and do it mr beans style. keep it in second gear. and i have the brake to my advantage

Solnskaya

n97 mini wrote: »

As I frequently transport other people in my car, including my children's friends (15-16 y.o.), I would have to think twice about letting any of them sit in the front in case they caused an accident.

Why, would you not feel some sort of responsibility towards your passengers?

Worst case scenario, they break, and you get rear-ended - big claim for all - I reckon this will cause an upsurge of sales of Renaults amongst certain people.

David09

maidhc wrote: »

Why do some manufacturers act like it is a complete shock that they never countenanced that a car might be sold in RHD.

Other lazy engineering includes:
...........

The french in generally seem to be the worst offenders, possibly because their engineering skills are at times mediocre, and possibly because their nationalistic tendencies preclude them from recognising that some countries are different to them.

The epitome of lazy engineering is in any 106 or saxo. The pedals on the r.h.d. ones are squashed up against each other making it really uncomfortale to drive, especially for anyone with big feet.
A shame, because the car was good in other respects.

slimjimmc

Solnskaya wrote: »

I'm fairly sure a Cashcow Qashqai is pretty much a Renault anyway. Has Nissan not gone over to the dark side lately?

Considering Renault own over 40% of Nissan and Nissan own 15% of Renault a lot of each other's stuff has found it's way into both brands in the past 12 years. Even much of the Qashqai's interior is straight from the Renault stable, hence why I called it the Renault Qashqai.

VanhireBoys

Just buy a LHD Citroen/Renault/Peugeot .. No more bother...!

johnos1984

maidhc wrote: »

Other lazy engineering includes:

Every car except old British cars and JDM imports (wipers and indicators wrong way around)

The Morris Marina has the wipers the wrong way around on both RHD and LHD models.

CRAZY

Here is mine before it went for restoration



And here is a US Federal spec Marina

Rovi

johnos1984 wrote: »

The Morris Marina has the wipers the wrong way around on both RHD and LHD models.

CRAZY

LOL!
That sounds like the sort of thing only British Leyland could have achieved.

maidhc

Rovi wrote: »

LOL!
That sounds like the sort of thing only British Leyland could have achieved.

In fairness, you could swap a Rover Sd1 from RHD to LHD without changing the dash!... perfectly symetrical and with an air vent in the place of a steering column at the passenger side:

johnos1984

True Maidhc but you have no idea how annoying it is having the vent blowing fresh fume filled air directly into your face. I loved my Sd1 though

n97 mini

galwaytt wrote: »

Most cars in the world are designed on the drawing board, as LHD.

World cars are properly designed to be either. Ask the Japanese.

n97 mini

slimjimmc wrote: »

LOL.. the BBC article doesn't say MOST French cars, it says more French cars.
A total of 8 models (6 if you consider some are mere spec variants of the same car) , while far too many, does not equate to most French cars now does it?
In case you don't realise how many models of French car there are on the roads in the UK here's my list of recent models sold in the last 5yrs (excluding the multitudes of trim variants and commercials) ...

PUGs : 107, 206, 207, 307, 308, 407, 508, 807, 3008, 3008, 4007, 5008, RCZ,
CITs : C-zero, C4 Mk I, C4 MkII, C5 Mk I, C5 MkII, C-crosser, C1, C3, c3 -picasso, c4 -picasso, grand c4 -picasso, c6, C2, C8, DS3,
RENNYs: Megane II, Megane III, Safrane II, Safrane III, Twingo II, Twingo II, Clio III, Espace IV, Fluence, Laguna II, Laguna III, Scenic II, Scenic III

Although this situation should never have arose in the first place I wonder how big a danger this 'problem' really is e.g. the 206 has been built and sold into the UK since 1998 so why are only hearing about it now? I've one of those pre-2004 Meganes which supposedly can have a braking effect if pressure applied in the wrong place, but I'm damned if I can reproduce it.

Your ability to list French cars is impressive! :P

slimjimmc

n97 mini wrote: »

Your ability to list French cars is impressive! :P

Mercy buckets mon ameeee

Capt'n Midnight

maidhc wrote: »

Lots of Citroens and Pugs (offset driving positions, wipers, general kludges)
...
The french in generally seem to be the worst offenders,

Then again maybe the French are doing it to annoy the Brits.

Capt'n Midnight

johnos1984 wrote: »

The Morris Marina has the wipers the wrong way around on both RHD and LHD models.

CRAZY

Here is mine before it went for restoration

Weird because those look like black plastic covers for the opposite positions , just below the joint in the wipers.

Solnskaya

^^ god bless your eyesight. You're wasted here, they should strap you to the skids of the copper chopper and use you to spot stolen cars!

nmacc

The old Saab 99 had a linkage running across the floor to operate the throttle. The original throttle lever was on the passenger side under a flimsy plastic cover, but the lever extended over the top of the cover, meaning it could be fouled.

I found this out the hard way when I floored the accelerator on a friend's car and the lever caught in the wiring loom, jamming the throttle open.

I suppose it only took me a couple of seconds to find the key between the seats and kill the ignition, but it felt like an eternity as the car rocketed down a narrow street. It was a close-run thing that I didn't have to steam clean & deodorise ter the driver's seat!

johnos1984

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Weird because those look like black plastic covers for the opposite positions , just below the joint in the wipers.

They are

They were fitted backwards on models for both LHD and RDH markets.

BTW its now parked on my driveway! I'm heading to a vintage fair in greystones in a few minutes