Enda Kenny in Dublin cash pledge to build £850m road in Northern Ireland Read more:

POINTBREAK

Are you Guys sure your'e skint? Certainly doesn't look like it.

KeithAFC

Thanks Enda. This is important. Its nice to see.

POINTBREAK

I assume by the lack of posts that everyone has been rendered speechless because you didn't know you had 850 million to give away.

Sully

Old news, was before this governments time. Kinda have to commit to it anyway.

later12

Sully wrote: »

Kinda have to commit to it anyway.

Eh, no. Kinda don't. This isn't a legal contract, it was a pledge made by Bertie Ahern in 2006. We don't have to go through with it any more than we have to go through with all other FF pledges. Even Danny Kennedy the NI transport minister has said he won't be ''stampeded'' into giving the road the go-ahead, I don't quite see why Enda Kenny feels he does not have the strength to resist paying.

OP - first of all our pledge is for €460m, so that needs to be clarified.

What also needs to be clarified is that this the amount of money is what we are taking from the pension levy to pay for the jobs budget. The transport project element of the jobs' budget for the republic comes to just €60m. Yes, €60m. We could have multiplied the regional roads development in the jobs initiative by a factor of 7.

Sorry but this sort of thing really is not on... a state in our delicate financial situation cannot afford to fund €460 million in infrastructure of dubious importance in a foreign jurisdiction. We might have had that luxury in 2006, we do not have it in 2011.

That Enda Kenny has confirmed this is going ahead before the NI authorities have even convinced themselves that it is a good idea is inexplicable.

gaffer91

later10 wrote: »

Eh, no. Kinda don't. This isn't a legal contract, it was a pledge made by Bertie Ahern in 2006. We don't have to go through with it any more than we have to go through with all other FF pledges. Even Danny Kennedy the NI transport minister has said he won't be ''stampeded'' into giving the road the go-ahead, I don't quite see why Enda Kenny feels he does not have the strength to resist paying.

OP - first of all our pledge is for €460m, so that needs to be clarified.

What also needs to be clarified is that this the amount of money is what we are taking from the pension levy to pay for the jobs budget. The transport project element of the jobs' budget for the republic comes to just €60m. Yes, €60m. We could have multiplied the regional roads development in the jobs initiative by a factor of 7.

Sorry but this sort of thing really is not on... a state in our delicate financial situation cannot afford to fund €460 million in infrastructure of dubious importance in a foreign jurisdiction. We might have had that luxury in 2006, we do not have it in 2011.

That Enda Kenny has confirmed this is going ahead before the NI authorities have even convinced themselves that it is a good idea is inexplicable.

Great post Later10. Couldn't have said it better myself. It is ridiculous for FG and Labour to try and justify everything by simply saying "This was done by FF, it cannot be reversed". While this probably is true in certain cases, decisions can often be reversed and I've no doubt this is one of the cases.

fly_agaric

IMO our leaders probably think they have to go through with this because to do otherwise is "turning our back on peace" or something! It is alot of happy-clappy "hands-across the border" nonsense we cannot afford anymore but there you go. edit: It was a mistake for Bertie (prev govt?) to promise this but to go through with it now and use IMF/EU money to pay for it when we will have to cancel public transport projects here is just certifiable.

Amtmann

The argument can be made that Derry is the only city on the island not currently connected to Dublin by motorway. An argument can also be made that this proposed A5 is really a dual carriageway not only to improve the economic connectivity of Derry, but also the 70,000 citizens who live in Donegal.

The A5 needs a lot of work (a complete rebuild tbh), and there's no doubt that a new dualled A5 would benefit the republic. However, we still have plenty of roadbuilding to do across other parts of the island, notably several of the N-twenties:

• N22 Cork North Ring (22km northern bypass of Cork and integral part of the Atlantic Corridor, which will connect the N22, M20 and M8)
• N28 Cork to Ringaskiddy (13km with a MASSIVE projected rate of economic return - ca. €50bn, in fact)
• N24 Limerick to Waterford (125km proposed Type 2 DC linking Waterford with Galway via Limerick and replacing a road that sees an average of 5 fatalities per year)
• M20 Cork to Limerick motorway (100km)

Galway also badly needs its bypass, as well as New Ross, Enniscorthy, Dungarvan and several outstanding stretches of N11 and national secondaries.

All proposed road upgrades should be ranked strictly in order of economic return.

sdanseo

I said this in another thread - Donegal residents could be well served by extending the M5 to sligo and then into Donegal at a later date. Sligo, Mayo, Longford all need a motorway connection and all have a lot more than 70,000 inhabitants.

We should not be financing another country's roads with money borrowed from them in the first place, (on which we're paying interest!).

RMD

Why he feels the need to honour Bertie's commitments is beyond me. Hopefully though this will impress in Northern Ireland, swing a bit of support our way.

POINTBREAK

It makes no sense to me at all. He is borrowing the money from the IMF to build a road in another jurisdiction. In fact , put like that it sounds insane.

end a eknny

this is a surprise maybe enda knows something the rest of us dont. maybe the brits or going to hand back the north during the term of this goverment. who would have thought f.g would be in power when ireland was reunited. hope poor keith doesnt find out it could be too much for him

Sully

later10 wrote: »

Eh, no. Kinda don't. This isn't a legal contract, it was a pledge made by Bertie Ahern in 2006. We don't have to go through with it any more than we have to go through with all other FF pledges. Even Danny Kennedy the NI transport minister has said he won't be ''stampeded'' into giving the road the go-ahead, I don't quite see why Enda Kenny feels he does not have the strength to resist paying.

I don't understand it, and from what it seems at the moment I don't agree or support it. As said above, work needed at home first which might serve us better economically in the long run.

I'm assuming Kenny knows something we don't indeed about the figures and benefit. I don't know much but 4m seems very small contribution and choice wise it may make more sense if we can allocate such funding here but we don't have funding of a larger amount to server other places. So lesser of two evils.

Or perhaps the money is being given and other roads will also be done that benefit economically.

In someways, I respect that we have a good working relation with our neighbours and are prepared to work on the costs for a road that benefits us rather than taking the selfish approach. On the other hand, we don't really have the money and surely the 4m would be better spent somewhere else? Maybe its just to small in state terms.

later12

Sully wrote: »

I don't know much but 4m seems very small contribution

On the other hand, we don't really have the money and surely the 4m would be better spent somewhere else? Maybe its just to small in state terms.

What's this about 4 million?

The contribution by the state is €460 million - in other words, almost half a billion euro.

thebman

I imagine this is the real reason:

He said he was personally committed to strong North-South relations due to his year-long stint on the New Ireland Forum in the 1980s.

“The government that I will lead is absolutely committed to protecting all of the gains that have flowed from the Good Friday Agreement and will continue to work in that regard,” he said.

Mr Kenny is due to have his first full meeting with First Minister Peter Robinson and deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness at a meeting of the North-South ministerial council in Farmleigh House in Dublin on June 10.

It is really the first political issue to come up to do with cross border relations. I'm guessing he didn't want it to be negative and is hoping the road doesn't get the go ahead in the North due to cutbacks there too.

Poor show though considering the costs involved.

RMD

end a eknny wrote: »

this is a surprise maybe enda knows something the rest of us dont. maybe the brits or going to hand back the north during the term of this goverment. who would have thought f.g would be in power when ireland was reunited. hope poor keith doesnt find out it could be too much for him

Please go read the GFA. The only way the status of Northern Ireland can change is the " Principle that any change to the constitutional status of Northern Ireland could only follow a majority vote of the citizens in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland", a quote from the GFA. The Brits can't just abandon NI and hand it back. The only we a united Ireland can come about is through a referendum whereby the majority vote to join the unite Ireland. Then we must hold a referendum also.

Building the road though is a good idea for bringing unionists on side. If they see investment from the Republic into the North and active attempts at curbing dissident activity we might be able to gain some support.

GSF

RMD wrote: »

Building the road though is a good idea for bringing unionists on side.

Not when they are all objecting to it. They want the cheaper option of upgrading the existing road rather than full m-way status.

silverharp

RMD wrote: »

Building the road though is a good idea for bringing unionists on side. If they see investment from the Republic into the North and active attempts at curbing dissident activity we might be able to gain some support.

on side to what? everybody will give you a smile if you throw a billion at them, meanwhile they will be saying to themselves "thank god we are not part of that basket case economy"

Bottle_of_Smoke

POINTBREAK wrote: »

It makes no sense to me at all. He is borrowing the money from the IMF to build a road in another jurisdiction. In fact , put like that it sounds insane.

Another jurisdiction connected to the Irish governments jurisdiction. Be like luxembourg and netherlands contributing jointly to a motorway or rail line.

KeithAFC

end a eknny wrote: »

this is a surprise maybe enda knows something the rest of us dont. maybe the brits or going to hand back the north during the term of this goverment. who would have thought f.g would be in power when ireland was reunited. hope poor keith doesnt find out it could be too much for him

Because a road is being built? What nonsense is this? As we walk down the road, we don't think of things like this.

end a eknny

KeithAFC wrote: »

Because a road is being built? What nonsense is this? As we walk down the road, we don't think of things like this.

its a motorway you arent supposed to walk on them but your welcome to go ahead

KeithAFC

end a eknny wrote: »

its a motorway you arent supposed to walk on them but your welcome to go ahead

I meant on parade. :pac:

end a eknny

KeithAFC wrote: »

I meant on parade. :pac:

hope i am heading for donegal that day

POINTBREAK

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Another jurisdiction connected to the Irish governments jurisdiction. Be like luxembourg and netherlands contributing jointly to a motorway or rail line.

-
I've no objection to countries building roads as a joint venture, but its a matter of getting the priorities right. Put it back 10 years and spend the money on more pressing things.

sollar

Tremelo wrote: »

The argument can be made that Derry is the only city on the island not currently connected to Dublin by motorway. An argument can also be made that this proposed A5 is really a dual carriageway not only to improve the economic connectivity of Derry, but also the 70,000 citizens who live in Donegal.

I think its a good enough idea. It should help donegal and access to and from dublin for derry and donegal. Population of donegal is nearer 150,000.

sollar

RMD wrote: »

Building the road though is a good idea for bringing unionists on side.

I seriously doubt thats what its about. It will improve access to donegal and derry which is a good idea.

Cork boy 55

POINTBREAK wrote: »

Are you Guys sure your'e skint? Certainly doesn't look like it.

You need to look at the long-term picture.

This road will make an excellant avenue of attack for the XVI Armoured Corps when we invade the north in 2016.

Our tanks will be in Doire saor in a day and will cut in North in two in a single stroke.

Say nothing it's Top secret

POINTBREAK

sollar wrote: »

I think its a good enough idea. It should help donegal and access to and from dublin for derry and donegal. Population of donegal is nearer 150,000.

-
Yeah a good idea, but the timing is way off. There must be a lot more important things that could be done with half a billion Euro in the country.

Bottle_of_Smoke

POINTBREAK wrote: »

-
Yeah a good idea, but the timing is way off. There must be a lot more important things that could be done with half a billion Euro in the country.

It seems a bit mad alright but I think peace process promises are more ring fenced than other promises. If they cancelled it there'd be a lot of rabble rabble over it.

If you take Irelands developmental aid - 869million in 2007(not sure this year's figure but prob not far off) - that's for third world countries for a similar cost that will probably give us nothing in return but extra immigrants in a few decades.

So by comparison, this road will have at least some logistics benefit to the roi

later12

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

If you take Irelands developmental aid - 869million in 2007(not sure this year's figure but prob not far off) - that's for third world countries for a similar cost that will probably give us nothing in return but extra immigrants in a few decades.

What on Earth has immigration to do with foreign aid? If anything its aim is to make the world more stable, and lessen the requirement for forced economic migration.

KeithAFC

I don't see the problem really with some of the complaints. Apparently the Orange Order are planning in making the battle of the boyne site a place to bring in millions for the republics economy. If by 2012 it can be organised, could have thousands upon thousands of people going down to it for the day and spend money.

end a eknny

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't see the problem really with some of the complaints. Apparently the Orange Order are planning in making the battle of the boyne site a place to bring in millions for the republics economy. If by 2012 it can be organised, could have thousands upon thousands of people going down to it for the day and spend money.

like i said we begged the queen we begged obama surely both of these are resposible for more murders than the orange order so cant see why we shouldnt take back some of the money we have given them

Donegal has the highest unemployment rate in the country and had a high unemployment rate during the boom.

Capital expenditure is the only expenditure that will increase our growth rate in the long run. This will benefit trade between Donegal and the 6 counties and with the republic.


just as a side note - Donegal has alot of hills and is good for mineral prospecting.....in fact we have 2 sites that are good for uranium. Uranium mining is big business and would bring in some very well paying jobs to Donegal as well as boost our exports however:

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2007/Minister+Ryan+Calls+Halt+to+Uranium+Exploration+in+Ireland.htm

another side note
Poor Donegal hasnt a chance, we cant connect it by road because people think we shouldnt pay for roads in NI.
Retrospectively if we had of given Donegal to the British in 1922 at the time of the treaty we would have had a catholic majority a long time ago and the entire North could have rejoined the Republic a long time ago. The troubles may have played out very differently.

I really dont think the guys at the treaty we thinking long term. And we do no different today.

dlofnep

I regularly make the drive up to Derry, and the improvements in infrastructure are of benefit to everyone on the island. I do agree however that the costs of such a project, regardless of where the road is, is unfundable at the moment.

PatsytheNazi

I remember in the late 1970's/ early 80's it caused a bit of a storm for a few days when it emerged that the Gombeen state was spending more on security on the border per head of population than the British govt were spending in the six counties. Fact.

Which to me shows the absurdity of the situation where since 1922 more money has been wasted on both sides of the border to prop up a pointless unjust little statelet than encouraging a natural function of a one island economy.

POINTBREAK

Yeah Yeah............ what took so long?

anymore

Where is the logic in Ireland taking loans from the UK as part of the EU bailout and then spending money on a road in Northern Ireland ??

POINTBREAK

anymore wrote: »

Where is the logic in Ireland taking loans from the UK as part of the EU bailout and then spending money on a road in Northern Ireland ??

Sorry, should have included this link. It has been cancelled.

ItsAWindUp

Let Britain pay for it as far as I'm concerned.

rodento

Deleted User wrote: »

we cant connect it by road because people think we shouldnt pay for roads in NI.

Its simple, who do the people in the north pay their tax to

thebman

POINTBREAK wrote: »

Sorry, should have included this link. It has been cancelled.

The Republic's Transport Minister Leo Varadkar said his government remained "politically committed to the A5".

Kind of reads as the IMF found out about it :pac:

Liam Byrne

thebman wrote: »

POINTBREAK wrote: »

Sorry, should have included this link. It has been cancelled.

The Republic's Transport Minister Leo Varadkar said his government remained "politically committed to the A5".

Kind of reads as the IMF found out about it :pac:

Reads as "we didn't want to waste the money but by making it read as "the IMF found out about it" we get the best of both worlds - we save the cash but still get the political plus-points and don't look like the bad guys".

irishh_bob

anymore wrote: »

Where is the logic in Ireland taking loans from the UK as part of the EU bailout and then spending money on a road in Northern Ireland ??

its nonsensical but is one of those allegeded :rolleyes: tokens of appreciation we need to show unionists in order to one day woo them into joining our gang , all the love seems to have gone one way

woodoo

anymore wrote: »

Where is the logic in Ireland taking loans from the UK as part of the EU bailout and then spending money on a road in Northern Ireland ??

There is a county up there that belongs to the republic. It has poor access to our capital city and could really do with that road upgrade.... guess the name of that county?

junder

woodoo wrote: »

anymore wrote: »

Where is the logic in Ireland taking loans from the UK as part of the EU bailout and then spending money on a road in Northern Ireland ??

There is a county up there that belongs to the republic. It has poor access to our capital city and could really do with that road upgrade.... guess the name of that county?

Iceland?

mistermouse

There is a good thread on this in the Donegal forum.

Bear in mind that we in Donegal often travel to Dublin for many services such as specific health services for example that are not provided here, infact very little has been provided to Donegal over the years, this would have provided a vital piece of infrastructure to connect us to Dublin, whom we pay taxes to.

The Irish Govt pledge was less than 850m also, closer to half that.

We have no Rail Links or any real infrastructure. This would have been most likely have been something maintained thereafter on an ongoing basis by the UK. Donegal has stong links to Northern Ireland, we also have a high protestant population and have always had Orange Order Halls and Marches, so there is evidence of North South co-operation here. Fine Gael get a high vote in protestant areas here and Paddy Harte was very vocal in the past and keen to protray Ireland as British Friendly, so its not a solely Fianna Fail issue. Donegal Tourism is very heavily supported from Northern Ireland, and the UK. All these revenues go to Dublin

We were given an Airport and a bridge most here did not want or ever use, as a result of gombeen politics the majority did not support.

But I cannot understand how the Irish Government are happy to renege on a deal/agreement with Britain, our closest neighbour and possibly new best friend, yet cannot renege on unsecured bank debts.

It would have been a drop in the ocean in the amount Ireland are prepared to pay to Anglo unsecured bondholders, yet we would have had something to show for it and an investment.

swordofislam

mistermouse wrote: »

But I cannot understand how the Irish Government are happy to renege on a deal/agreement with Britain, our closest neighbour and possibly new best friend, yet cannot renege on unsecured bank debts.

It would have been a drop in the ocean in the amount Ireland are prepared to pay to Anglo unsecured bondholders, yet we would have had something to show for it and an investment.

This money was pledged under the Saint Andrew's agreement. We all know that the tribe of those descended from the Gael are sick to death of the ****ing peace process. Are they now trying to destroy it?

And if Fine Gael are now trying to destroy the peace process we are entitled to ask 'why?'.

Cui Bono.

donegal11

mistermouse wrote: »

We were given an Airport and a bridge most here did not want or ever use, as a result of gombeen politics the majority did not support.

What bridge? fanad

mistermouse

Yes, I am referring to the bridge in Fanad, built to keep the Blaneys on side, rarely used and prioritised over a Bypass needed of the Twin towns and the Lifford Road, both of which would have benefited tens of thousands more people, many daily, including those living in Fanad quite often.

Priorities were completely screwed here in favour of a slim govt majority. To top it off, it was named after Blaney and then his next in line started campaigning about the Lifford Road as if he had his priorities right.

Everyone in Donegal are right to demand good access to the capital and also that access to Donegal is good also. Roads are all we have.

It seems perceived as being remote from Dublin, it is politically, but is closer than Kerry for example. Building this road up could have helped change the perceptions on both counts, encouraged more southern tourists, benefited the Northwest, promoted tourism and business in both directions and it should not be forgotten that closer co-operation with Northern Ireland is not a bad thing for this state.

I agree also that Fine Gaels attitude to the troubles and Northern Ireland has always been questionable. While they have always seemed very pro-unionist and pro british, they have royally snubbed them too on this occasion

johngalway

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Reads as "we didn't want to waste the money but by making it read as "the IMF found out about it" we get the best of both worlds - we save the cash but still get the political plus-points and don't look like the bad guys".

Thank God for the IMF