Civil Service Redundancy 2011?

Descartes01

I currently work in the Civil service and am in the process of preparing to leave. I'm well aware of the recession as i have a wife and brother who are both out of work. After coming from the private sector I joined the CS 4 years ago and since day one i've found it hard to 'belong'. The organisational culture, quality of management and ridiculous inefficiencies are driving me demented. I know its a crap time to do it, but i'm planning on setting up my own business and making a go of it.

I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything about any Volunatry redundancies possibly being offered this year in the general CS?

I don't want anyone telling me i'm a waster or to stop bleeding the sate or some similar nonsense. I worked my a55 off in the CS while watching many others do nothing. I also made continuos efforts to bring in Private sector efficiencies and was resented because of it.

I'm leaving to try and create jobs and if there's a redundancy package available it would assist with the start up costs.

Many thanks in advance!

dixiefly

Best of luck in your venture.

Would you not be better off getting the business going while maintaining your job? I know you said you work your a$$ of but there could be a way.

What type of business are you setting up (or are you keeping it quiet)?

Delancey

While there is an acceptance that the CS is overstaffed in many areas there also seems to be a consensus that the state cannot afford an up-front redundancy programme at this time.

Descartes01

Thanks for your responses.

I know what you're saying makes sense Dixiefly and i'm trying to take that route at the moment. Unfortunately i'm quiet literally at the end of my rope with the CS department i'm in. I'd like to share the details of hopeful new venture I'm afraid I better not.

Delancey I appreciate your input. My understanding was that despite the low take up and high cost of the recent HSE redundancies it's believed that the state will save the amount they paid out, a multiple of times over. I'm still hoping that they examine the CS and decide that getting rid of several thousand overpaid staff with a redundancy payment, will make economic sense in the long run. I know the term 'cost neutral' is being thrown about but I'm still hoping.

It's this article in the Irish Times which mentions that Voluntary redundancies are being considered which sparked my interest:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0408/1224294223428.html

Does anybody else have any thoughts or further insight into this?

gazzer

Descartes01 wrote: »

I currently work in the Civil service and am in the process of preparing to leave. I'm well aware of the recession as i have a wife and brother who are both out of work. After coming from the private sector I joined the CS 4 years ago and since day one i've found it hard to 'belong'. The organisational culture, quality of management and ridiculous inefficiencies are driving me demented. I know its a crap time to do it, but i'm planning on setting up my own business and making a go of it.

I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything about any Volunatry redundancies possibly being offered this year in the general CS?

I don't want anyone telling me i'm a waster or to stop bleeding the sate or some similar nonsense. I worked my a55 off in the CS while watching many others do nothing. I also made continuos efforts to bring in Private sector efficiencies and was resented because of it.

I'm leaving to try and create jobs and if there's a redundancy package available it would assist with the start up costs.

Many thanks in advance!

I too am hoping that a redundancy package is offered but I think if it is it is going to be targetted at areas where there is surplus staff. Im 20 Years in the CS and I honestly cant see my career progressing anywhere now due to the recession. At the moment my job consists of a miss mash of various elements of the department (accountancy, IT, admin) so I have no clearly defined role and I would like to be doing IT work (I am a junior systems analyst doing accountancy work) and its not going to change any time soon.

I would love to take the leap and try to start my own business but I am very reluctant mainly due to the fact that I have hardly any savings and I suppose the security blanket of having a job in these tough times. If I got some type of redundancy package it might be the kick start I need.

dan_d

I haven't heard anything Op, but I have to say fair play to you.
Hardly possible for you to go and ask your HR dept or anything? Or would that be too much?

gazzer

dan_d wrote: »

I haven't heard anything Op, but I have to say fair play to you.
Hardly possible for you to go and ask your HR dept or anything? Or would that be too much?

HR dont know. I already asked. It will come as an announcement on the news late one Friday afternoon if it is going to announced at all. The staff will be the last to know about it anyway

eastbono

Cant answer you question with regard to redundancy in the CS.. I wont be taking it and only in CS 11 years came from private sector and moved departments just over a year ago and love where I am now... my brain is again being used tg. with regard to HSE my OH is with HSE a long long time and when the voluntary redundancies were offered he was not allowed to apply as he was considered "frontline staff" so even if redundancies come in the CS you may not be permitted to apply as you may be regarded as "frontline" e.g. necessary staff (as you would not be replaced).

Stavro Mueller

I know nothing more than you do but I understand that February of next year is the closing date for people to retire early on 2009 pay scales. I shouldn't think they'd do anything before that.

Quo Vadis

Descartes01 wrote: »

Unfortunately i'm quiet literally at the end of my rope with the CS department i'm in.

Many, many people in the CS privately feel that way, and have often thought about going off and starting their own business in another area. The CS is a complete shytehole, but it pays the bills.

Do not jump ship until you are making the same hourly rate part time, outside hours, with your new business, and are absolutely certain you will have enough business to make that hourly rate full time. Thinking you will is not good enough. If no voluntary redundancy package comes up, take a 5 year career break. No one will be getting into the CS in a permanent capacity again for at least the next 20 years. Good luck in your new venture btw.

Cork

Why can't the public service put people in jobs where they have an aptitude.

Many public sector organisations have massive HR departments who seem incapable of giving staff delvelopment in their given jobs.

Cork

If you are not getting job satisfaction in a public sector job - get experience by taking a part time job or do a course that you are interested.

I have been in jobs that I hated. It is soul destroying. But don't let it get you down. If you do - they have won.

nicol

Cork wrote: »

Why can't the public service put people in jobs where they have an aptitude.

Many public sector organisations have massive HR departments who seem incapable of giving staff delvelopment in their given jobs.

It's probably because a lot of the pepole who work in HR in the Public Sector don't have a HR background. A lot of PS organisations don't regard HR as a specialist area and so lump anyone into their HR dept.

Quo Vadis

HR in the public service is notoriously atrocious, one of the reasons morale and productivity is rock bottom. A fair and even handed approach is alien to them, it's just about who you know, who you're buddies with, and what GAA or sports club, or political party you're in. Add in a bit of nepotism, HR bullying etc, and you have some very serious IR issues to deal with. It's a mess. I wouldn’t let my dog work in some areas of the public service, the wages and so called security don't make up for it, but work is work, so you stay to feed the famaily and pay the bills. The more specialised and knowledgeable you are about your job, the more you're resented and attacked by the cronies and bullshtters in case you show them up.

Cork

Descartes01 wrote: »

The organisational culture, quality of management and ridiculous inefficiencies are driving me demented

Don't get demented.

Take on a part time job or do a course.

Use the asset of having a permanent job as an asset not as a millstone.

Admor Tony

Descartes01 wrote: »

Thanks for your responses.

I know what you're saying makes sense Dixiefly and i'm trying to take that route at the moment. Unfortunately i'm quiet literally at the end of my rope with the CS department i'm in. I'd like to share the details of hopeful new venture I'm afraid I better not.

Delancey I appreciate your input. My understanding was that despite the low take up and high cost of the recent HSE redundancies it's believed that the state will save the amount they paid out, a multiple of times over. I'm still hoping that they examine the CS and decide that getting rid of several thousand overpaid staff with a redundancy payment, will make economic sense in the long run. I know the term 'cost neutral' is being thrown about but I'm still hoping.

It's this article in the Irish Times which mentions that Voluntary redundancies are being considered which sparked my interest:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0408/1224294223428.html

Does anybody else have any thoughts or further insight into this?

Like most of the other posters, I do not know what will happen in the CS although in my experience these issues are usually kept very much under wraps until the last minute. The Union will likely be involved at least in the later stages so if you are a member, try them.

As for your business idea, in my opinion, you should work out your 'Business Model' by writing out exactly what it is you plan to do, how you will do it and most importantly how much money you will make from it. Then get someone independent and professional to challenge your Model and if it passes this test, you may be on to something and you may need a Business Plan and professional advice. This will mitigate some of the risks of leaving work.

Unfortunately without further information (and I understand why you are holding back) it is difficult to say more.

Yvob

cymbaline wrote: »

I know nothing more than you do but I understand that February of next year is the closing date for people to retire early on 2009 pay scales. I shouldn't think they'd do anything before that.

Don't take this as fact as it's just something I have heard, but I heard from a HSE worker that some HSE staff who took the previous round of redundancies, don't actually have to leave until Feb 2012 (I assume these must be speciality posts as I understand most staff had to leave by the December the scheme was announced), so as I understand it, the Govt won't announce the new scheme until all staff who took up on last redundancy scheme have left, so there is no issues with those staff looking for same conditions etc in new scheme. FYI I too am in the CS and currently on Career break to raise my family, and if redundancy comes up I will take it no question.

Descartes01

Any thoughts on todays Croke Park deal news?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0615/breaking1.html

Mrs Fanning

I'm currently on the 'Incentive Career Break' Scheme, due to return July 2012.
I took the CB as it suited family circumstances, both financially and for being at home with the children.
It looks now like I wont be taken back next year, not immediately anyway. Judging on the up take from the HSE last year, it wouldnt surprise me if enforced redundancies are implemented, and I'd say I'd be on that list, as at the moment I am 'surplus staff'!!!! But I wont rule it out until such time as a package is announced. (Can I confirm, based on the article in the Irish Times was it 3 weeks plus the 2weeks min. statutory that was offered to the HSE??)

Plus, does anyone know, seeing as I am currently 'still employed', I am not entitled to any social welfare payments/ benefits etc, which is fine as the ICP looks after things(more or less ) ), but after the 3 yrs ICB, my incentive payment will stop, so if I am not taken back immediately (the contract said that I 'have to be taken back' within 12 mths of the CB finishing, basically meaning that they dont have to next year, but have to find a position within a year, unless I take a redundancy), would I be entitled to 'sign on' etc. until I'd be taken back, as otherwise I would be without any income at all!!!!

Thanks.

pjas1821

hi, apologise for using this thread, only a newbie, so hopefully not stepping on to toes.

my question is this, following announcement last week re proposed redundancy package for civil servants, i would like to apply, but have a a question if anyone can redirect me to the appropriate page or info. Briefly, im out on sick leave since last december, my full pay is gone, and now down to half pay which will expire in dec this year, if i apply for the package, is the calculation of my pay on the wage i get now, or if im back at work the amount i should be getting every week, i was getting 500 per week working now getting 240 per week, and how do i apply, dont have any contact with work or h.r. if possible.

looking forward to advise,

regards,

pjas

gazzer

pjas1821 wrote: »

hi, apologise for using this thread, only a newbie, so hopefully not stepping on to toes.

my question is this, following announcement last week re proposed redundancy package for civil servants, i would like to apply, but have a a question if anyone can redirect me to the appropriate page or info. Briefly, im out on sick leave since last december, my full pay is gone, and now down to half pay which will expire in dec this year, if i apply for the package, is the calculation of my pay on the wage i get now, or if im back at work the amount i should be getting every week, i was getting 500 per week working now getting 240 per week, and how do i apply, dont have any contact with work or h.r. if possible.

looking forward to advise,

regards,

pjas

The new redundancy scheme is for Public Servents AND Civil Servants and it going to be a targetted scheme i.e Divisions that have surplus staff will be the areas where redundancy is offered. In any event nothing official has been announced yet.

Equality

Everything is based on your full pay.

Once it is announced, you simply e-mail HR and ask for the relevant forms and paperwork.

If you are on sick leave and expect it to be a long term illness, you should apply immediately for Disability Allowance and Invalidity Pension. Apply for both now, because if you need to appeal any refusal, the whole process of getting one of these could take over a year.

Equality

Hi to Mrs Fanning,

You can apply for Jobseekers Allowance if you are not taken back after the Incentivised Career Break, as you are now available for work. This is means tested, so your husband's income is relevant.

(You will need to actually look for work, keep a record of this, and take a job if you get one. Taking a job if you get one can be very advantageous if you joined the Civil Service pre 1995).

If you joined the CS after 1995, the Incentivised Career Break Scheme is so long that your PRSI cons have probably elapsed, so Benefit is unlikely to be available to you, unless you claimed illness benefit when you were on career break. Some people did, and they are very fortunate, as it means they have no break in their PRSI record.

trinib

Equality wrote: »

Hi to Mrs Fanning,

You can apply for Jobseekers Allowance if you are not taken back after the Incentivised Career Break, as you are now available for work. This is means tested, so your husband's income is relevant.

(You will need to actually look for work, keep a record of this, and take a job if you get one. Taking a job if you get one can be very advantageous if you joined the Civil Service pre 1995).

If you joined the CS after 1995, the Incentivised Career Break Scheme is so long that your PRSI cons have probably elapsed, so Benefit is unlikely to be available to you, unless you claimed illness benefit when you were on career break. Some people did, and they are very fortunate, as it means they have no break in their PRSI record.

Hi, does anyone on here know anyboby that took the Incentivised Career Break in 2009 have they returned to work yet and if so was it to there original department?

pjas1821

hi Gazzer and Equality, many thanks for your help in answering my post, im very gratefull, and hopefully they will bring it out soon, as will be taking it.

regards,

Pjas

anbodhran

trinib wrote: »

Hi, does anyone on here know anyboby that took the Incentivised Career Break in 2009 have they returned to work yet and if so was it to there original department?

Mixed bag apparently. Some people are being deferred for the 12 months as there as the organisation has no job to put them in, some are returning to their Departments and others aren't.

trinib

anbodhran wrote: »

Mixed bag apparently. Some people are being deferred for the 12 months as there as the organisation has no job to put them in, some are returning to their Departments and others aren't.

Thanks for that, Im due back myself before the end of the year, have been told my original position is no longer there but Im willing to change department hopefully I wont have to wait 12 months to get back.