I thought Saorview was actually launched today?

Dubluc

With the official launch of Saorview today any average punter with a little knowledge would actually expect to get the advertised channels from the get go. RTE one +1 didn't come on at 7pm as the EPG suggests. Despite the launch today there is nothing official to suggest when the channels are going live. Natural assumption would be that it'd start today.

Don't jump all over me though I know the speculation here is that it'll begin on Saturday but I'd have expected the Saorview website to give me this little gem not boards.

Sam Russell

Dubluc wrote: »

With the official launch of Saorview today any average punter with a little knowledge would actually expect to get the advertised channels from the get go. RTE one +1 didn't come on at 7pm as the EPG suggests. Despite the launch today there is nothing official to suggest when the channels are going live. Natural assumption would be that it'd start today.

Don't jump all over me though I know the speculation here is that it'll begin on Saturday but I'd have expected the Saorview website to give me this little gem not boards.

Of course it does not start today. Today was launch day.

swoofer

do you mean "LUNCH"

gb-

10000maniacs

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course it does not start today. Today was launch day.

Why do you think its taken 12 years to get this far?
The moment somebody shouted "lets set up a digital platform" in RTE 12 years ago, a gaggle of cretinous gob****es took charge of the project.
Its Summer 2011 and we are no better of than we were 12 years ago.

SPDUB

10000maniacs wrote: »

.....a gaggle of cretinous gob****es took charge of the project.

Yes and they were all elected by the good people of Ireland

Sam Russell

SPDUB wrote: »

Yes and they were all elected by the good people of Ireland

Not all of them, some worked for Dept of Communications, some worked for Comreg and some worked for BAI or its predecessor.

Some of course did not work at all, but only pretended.

munchkin_utd

heres a news item on the launch.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0526/saorview.html

interestingly, they mentioned its not decided whether low income people will get a subsidy on the settop box.

Does that also mean that pensioners wont get one for free? They are a different category surely?

My folks are pensioners and have a brand new expensive freeview HD set that does all the channels brilliantly (and has other fancy stuff too if connected to the internet), but the other telly in the house cant do dtt.

If the government were prepared to shell out for a free set top box, there is no point in them buying one for the spare room in the meantime.
They already have free telephone, medical card, medicine, travel, passport, an allowance for electricity and the tax free allowance on private pensions is so high that they pay little to no tax on that either. With such generousity I just have to assume that pensioners are entitled to a free dtt box for being inconvienced with loosing the analogue signal.
They get everything else for free so why not also digital telly?

The Cush

munchkin_utd wrote: »

interestingly, they mentioned its not decided whether low income people will get a subsidy on the settop box.

Does that also mean that pensioners wont get one for free? They are a different category surely?

They get everything else for free so why not also digital telly?

Any assistance scheme will be the responsibility of the Dept of Communications in conjunction with the ASO information campaign (which starts in Oct).

The Dept hasn't made any announcement on such a scheme yet but if it happens it probably won't be available until next year (after the budget).

This from the Irish Indo recently

A government subvention scheme is also expected to come into place but details are yet to be announced.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/170000-homes-using-tv-aerials-unaware-signal-to-end-in-2012-2647973.html

From the Irish Times

Speaking at the launch today in RTÉ, Minister for Communications Pat Rabbitte refused to commit to financial help for those who feel they cannot afford the box.

He said he had made no decision in relation to it because of “straitened times”, but he stressed that his department was talking to relevant community and charity organisations. “The intention is that nobody will be left behind,” he stressed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0526/breaking56.html

Mr Rabbitte also stopped short of suggesting there would be a subvention for those who felt they could not afford the set-top box that will be needed to make the switch from analogue to digital television, which is scheduled to occur between now and the end of 2012.

The set-top boxes are expected to cost between €70 and €100.

He said he had made no decision in relation to it because of “straitened times”, but he stressed that his department was talking to relevant community and charity organisations. “The intention is that nobody will be left behind.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0527/1224297853692.html

BTW the free passport is no more since last month.

Dubluc

I was just remarking on the fact that the implication from a launch of a service would be that it is up and fully running unless there is concrete information to the contrary. If the intention is to actually run everything live tomorrow then this should have been publically released to the general public. THe best way of doing this would have been on their website. Anyone who didn't know would be disappointed.

fat-tony

RTEjr is now on - enjoy the cartoons!

Sponge Bob

I reckon €0 subsidy on the STB itself but some subsidies on Saorsat installs or aerial installations instead...depending. Skewed towards pensioners and carers only.

Sam Russell

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I reckon €0 subsidy on the STB itself but some subsidies on Saorsat installs or aerial installations instead...depending. Skewed towards pensioners and carers only.

I posted this as an aside elsewhere but here might be more relevant.

The cost of a box (possible one that is not Saorview approved) could well be down to €30 by this time next year. I can sell a box for €50 at the moment and I am not buying with the benefit of huge volumes that the major retailers have. I do not intend to keep at this, but if I did, I expect a fully compliant box would be sold (by me) in twelve months for €30. The boxes that meet our spec are just coming on stream and the prices are coming down. It helps that our spec is more widespread now than it was this time last year. A lot of localisation work has to be done to bring them to market, but within 12 months, they will be cheap as chips.

So if the Government keeps their council, they may not need to fund the boxes at all, as they will be cheap. However, giving granny a box to install herself is of little use. What is needed is an installation visit, and that is not cheap. As usual, hardware will not be the issue

STB

Sam.

The technology is not just coming on stream. Its been out since 2008. Chipsets havent changed that much. Anyone can source a box for feck all. It wouldnt be certified for €30!

Simple fact. The only thing that brings price down is demand. We do not have the demand. The french and british have populations of 66 million each and they do not have the price point down that far, especially with the right middleware and PVR facilities.

I do admire that you went out and actually brought some in. They have been known about for some time and may be considered as an option as a cheap method for the subsidised communities .

Your biggest issues will be getting HE-AAC and E-AC3 support, which is part of the min spec. Also whilst these are working now, you do not know what could be used down the road as part of the Nordig spec.

10000maniacs wrote: »

Why do you think its taken 12 years to get this far?
The moment somebody shouted "lets set up a digital platform" in RTE 12 years ago, a gaggle of cretinous gob****es took charge of the project.
Its Summer 2011 and we are no better of than we were 12 years ago.

Well that has to be the most ridiculous statement I have read in some time.

We have a digital service that has been on since August 2008. In the intervening time we have seen the rollout of a new digital tx network. Of course we are better off than we are 12 years ago as digital tv goes.

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

Sam.

The technology is not just coming on stream. Its been out since 2008. Chipsets havent changed that much. Anyone can source a box for feck all. It wouldnt be certified for €30!

Simple fact. The only thing that brings price down is demand. We do not have the demand. The french and british have populations of 66 million each and they do not have the price point down that far, especially with the right middleware and PVR facilities.

I do admire that you went out and actually brought some in. They have been known about for some time and may be considered as an option as a cheap method for the subsidised communities .

Your biggest issues will be getting HE-AAC and E-AC3 support, which is part of the min spec. Also whilst these are working now, you do not know what could be used down the road as part of the Nordig spec.

Well that has to be the most ridiculous statement I have read in some time.

We have a digital service that has been on since August 2008. In the intervening time we have seen the rollout of a new digital tx network. Of course we are better off than we are 12 years ago as digital tv goes.

The question of certification is dependant on quantity. It cost about €20 grand to certify a STB. If I were to sell 20,000 units, that would be €1 per box. If I sell 100, that €200 per box. The big guys can do more 20,000 and more than that and certification is small beer compared with their advertising budget. Also at those kind of volumes, €30 is quite possible.

The reason I say the products are just coming on stream is not the chipset but the spec requires a combination that is unusual. It is part UK but not UK, part Nordig. Now it is NZ AUS SA HK and plenty more. The MHEG5 is being developed in house by companies and integrated into product which it was not this time last year.

Prices come down because of competition.

The current service began in Aug 2008, and could have gone live anytime since. The ASO could have occured already if there was not the stupid standoff about PayTV.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

The question of certification is dependant on quantity. It cost about €20 grand to certify a STB. If I were to sell 20,000 units, that would be €1 per box. If I sell 100, that €200 per box. The big guys can do more 20,000 and more than that and certification is small beer compared with their advertising budget. Also at those kind of volumes, €30 is quite possible.

The reason I say the products are just coming on stream is not the chipset but the spec requires a combination that is unusual. It is part UK but not UK, part Nordig. Now it is NZ AUS SA HK and plenty more. The MHEG5 is being developed in house by companies and integrated into product which it was not this time last year.

Prices come down because of competition.

The current service began in Aug 2008, and could have gone live anytime since. The ASO could have occured already if there was not the stupid standoff about PayTV.

Whilst the service started in August 2008 it was only at the 6 main TXs.

Dealing with Shenzen based companies is not easy as you are promised the world and that is rarely delivered upon!

Yes our spec is a bit of this and a bit of that. MHEG5 engines are not developed inhouse by box OEMs. They are bought off the shelf from the likes of Ocean Blue/Cabot/S&T/Redkey and incorporated into the specifcally written software. Thats how its costly.

Infact the only major manufacturer that has their own inhouse written MHEG engine is LG.

Its 16k for certification to my knowledge. Given how wide ranging the Irish spec is it is not in wide production and as a result you will never achieve a €30 price point. The reason you have got a €50 price point with those mini devices you brought in is because they are generic spec of MPEG4 H264 L4 chip with basic audio profile. They do not comply with Irish spec nor UK freeview HD spec nor French spec. When RTE switch the audio codec for the HD channels, the box will cease to provide sound on those HD channel(s).

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

Its 16k for certification to my knowledge. Given how wide ranging the Irish spec is it is not in wide production and as a result you will never achieve a €30 price point. The reason you have got a €50 price point with those mini devices you brought in is because they are generic spec of MPEG4 H264 L4 chip with basic audio profile. They do not comply with Irish spec nor UK freeview HD spec nor French spec. When RTE switch the audio codec for the HD channels, the box will cease to provide sound on those HD channel(s).

Whatever the fee paid to the certifuication company, there are many other costs. Retesting is extra. Shipping in and out is not free and they keep the samples. Neither is the engineering time to prepare the equipment for the test, and for the retest. They do a little more than check that they get a picture. For example, the spec has an algorithm for displaying the signal strength and quality. If the total project can be done for less than €20,000 I would be surprised.

According to the spec, and according to the manufacturer, the boxes I supply DO meet the spec for audio. I have no way of testing it as RTE are not broadcasting it. If you have a way of testing it, please let me know and I will test it, and if it fails, I will seek to get it fixed. The box outputs stereo from the advanced audio codecs.

The only thing they are missing is MHEG5, as far as I know. Not one person of those who have got the boxes has complained in any way about the boxes performance. They act as a PVR with an external USB HDD, and are a media player as well.

As for the €30 price point, we shall see. I achieved the €50 price point and included HDMI and aerial cables at that price, but I will leave it up to someone else to get it down to €30, but it will be down to that by this time next year. It would require much higher volumes than I am prepared to go to if I wanted to achieve it. I never intended to get into busines with this. Once these low priced Set Top Boxes are gone - they are gone.

carrolls

STB wrote: »

Well that has to be the most ridiculous statement I have read in some time.

We have a digital service that has been on since August 2008. In the intervening time we have seen the rollout of a new digital tx network. Of course we are better off than we are 12 years ago as digital tv goes.

I think what he is saying is that in terms of programme content, we are no better off. Which is true. Ok we have HD for a couple of hours a week.
RTE must have hired some Messiah like character whose agenda was to fool the Irish people into believing they have 6 channels when to all intents and purposes all they have still are the same two channels they had in 2000.

lawhec

Looking back on the launch of Freeview in the UK in 2002, which is now an age away in technical terms, it launched without an 8 Day EPG (it came around 2004 IIRC), not all channels had launched, no PVRs were available (one from Pace came in 2003 I think, it was before the 8 Day EPG was ready) and except for the old ON/ITV Digital STBs only a few STBs were available, the Pace DTVA, Panasonic TUCT-20 (I still have one of those!), Thomson DTI1000 and a similar Grundig badged number made by Thomson. The average price at the time for an STB was between £70 to £100. Nowadays Freeview STBs can be got as cheap as £15 new.

As I see it, Saorview has launched with a "base" service, additional stuff can come on line when practical the same way it has done in the UK for Freeview.