Post moved from AH to USA. Infracted in USA, but I posted in AH

Buceph

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72207021#post72207021

I received an infraction due to a post I made in that thread. The post has since been deleted. I am disputing this infraction.

I received the infraction from Black Swan.

The infraction was for this post;
[post]72207021[/post]

Nevore wrote: »

If you have a hundred grand to spare, find a pub or b&b to buy. That'll get you a instant green card because you'll qualify as an investor in the community. That's probably the easiest way.

This is the easiest and best way.


If you go as a student you'll be turfed out eventually, unless you go illegal.

Otherwise you have to find an employer who will sponsor you and vouch that you're vital to the business and they can't find an American to do the job as well as you. Or it's a listed job type that the American nation is looking for workers in.

And I presumed you've already tried to find any relatives who can get you in.

The infraction was for the part where I said "If you go as a student you'll be turfed out eventually, unless you go illegal."

I am disputing this on a number of levels.

In the first instance, I was infracted for breaking the rules based on the Region's charter. I dispute this as my post was not made in the Region's Forum. I made the post while this thread was in After Hours. You can see the second post in that thread advised the poster to recreate the thread in the USA forum. Subsequently an After Hours mod moved the thread to the USA forum. I was then infracted by the USA forum mod. The After Hours mod had dealt with that thread, and did not infract me, so I feel my post was suitable to After Hours.

As support to Black Swan's claims, they say I broke After Hour's Charter. Again, the After Hour's moderators saw no problem with my post. And Black Swan has no authority there or experience modding in that forum, so I feel that they are not suitable to hold me me to the standard expected in After Hours.

Finally Black Swan claims that I broke some of the basic rules of Boards by encouraging illegal activity. I would hold that I did not do this either explicity or by intent. My post stated fact, albeit in a humourous manner as would be expected in After Hours. I believe my post was constructive and showed the thread starter the correct way to go about getting a visa for America.

I neither encouraged, promoted nor condoned an illegal activity. I simply pointed out that if someone outstayed their student visa they would be doing something illegal. The mods in After Hours saw no problem with my post. If I was posting specifically to the USA forum, I may have approached it differently, as I imagine their standards are different. I feel it unfair that I am held to that standard when I never posted to that forum, and that my post was deemed acceptable in the forum I did post it in. I have never posted in the USA forum, and had I been responding to a thread in that forum I would have approached the situation differently.

Finally, when I queried Black Swan about this infraction via PM, they said it was a simple warning and I shouldn't be concerned about it. However I have read this forum and the forum dealing with bans, and infractions are often used to justify a further course of action. That is why I am bringing this matter up.

Black Swan

FOR THE RECORD:

Black Swan wrote:

Hi Buceph,
Thank you for your PM. This warning regarded your posted comment within the “USA!” thread:

Buceph wrote: »

If you go as a student you'll be turfed out eventually, unless you go illegal.

Buceph wrote:

Hey,
I think you've made a mistake.

I made that post when it was in After Hours, where there's no rules regarding discussions of American immigration policy.

Please be advised that the “USA!” thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056268224 was subject to Boards.ie Terms of Use, no matter what forum it appeared upon in the entire boards.ie site.

Furthermore, the charters of After Hours, USA & Canada Travel, and United States all have similar statements that pertain to the discussion of illegal activities. Please see the below quotes and links.

Boards.ie Terms of Use
4. You agree NOT to use Boards.ie to: “post Material that promotes or encourages illegal activity”
Link: http://www.boards.ie/terms/

After Hours Charter, Rules and Guidelines:
“Any threads or posts advocating illegal activities or asking for help in such activities will be deleted. Please do not attempt to advocate or incite criminality or violence as this is a bannable offence.”
Link: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63152127&postcount=19

USA & Canada Travel Forum Charter:
“No illegal recommendations regarding entry, overstay, action within, or exiting from a country.”
Link: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055746099

United States Forum Charter:
“No illegal recommendations regarding entry, overstay, action within, or exiting United States.”
Link: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056112313

Buceph wrote:

I would request that this infraction be removed.

This was not an infraction, rather a simple warning (zero points on record), which was stated 3 times when you were informed of moderation:

Black Swan wrote:

Please be advised that it is against our charter to discuss or suggest such activity. This is a simple warning, not an infraction, intended to encourage you to read our charter and boards.ie Terms of Use guidelines before posting in the future.

You have received a warning at boards.ie. This is an automatically generated message.
Warnings are just a gentle reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you will see listed in the Forum's Charter.

This was only a warning intended to encourage you to read our guidelines, including Boards.ie Terms of Use, nothing more.
Sincerely,
Black Swan

Dub13

I have read all the info and can see there is some issue here.Your post was made at 01:44 and the thread was moved into the region cat at 08:20,most people who use boards will know that after hours has a completely different feel to most other forums on the site.

So I do accept that your post would have been made in a completely different context,if it was posted direct into a region forum there is no doubt this would be worthy of a warning.However I do accept that after hours is a different beast and maybe more things are allowed slide.I have never modded after hours so don't have a feel for the forum.

What I propose to do is have a cat mod who looks after Rec (after hours is in Rec) give this a once over and I will abide by his/her opinion as they would have a much better understanding of how after hours ebb and flows.

I would also like to point out that this is not setting a precedent,there is no standard operating procedure for stuff like this.It is in a sense a gray area,and as such nothing has been done wrong by Black Swan.

trout

In my opinion, that post would not have been deemed out of order for AH.

I don't see the post as promoting or recommending anything illegal ... I read it as an observation, and nothing more.

My suggestion would be to rescind ... but that's only my suggestion, I'm conscious that the action took place in a Region forum, but the post was "live" on Rec ... so it's a judgement call.

AlmightyCushion

Just to throw in my 2c, the post would have been fine by after hours standards so I think it is unfair for the OP to be infracted for it. I reckon removing the infraction and deleting the post is the way to go.

Silverfish

Since the post was made in After Hours, and two Rec Cmods have given the opinion this would not have been infracted in AH, I will reverse this infraction.

Thanks,

Silverfish

Buceph

Thanks guys.

I appreciate your time.