Do i need to know it all?

steve_

With the idea of starting my own business it seems iv gone through a gauntlet of feelings from excitement to fear, enthusiasm to depression. It seems one day the idea seems plausible and the next a mere fantasy. Now dont get me wrong its not even that big of a venture. But my mindset just seems like a pendulum swinging from one extreme to another.

Basically my business is to set up a website selling products......and thats it really. Ill be using a open source platform for the store and realistically i could be up and running in no time. But i keep putting myself off by thinking its not achievable or its too much a risk or i dont know enough to make it successful. I guess its this feeling that i lack knowledge where alot of the fear stems from, the feeling of delving into the unknown is a scary propect in anyones book. I was thinking about attending Uni to do a business course but upon reflection it seems thats just me giving myself another distraction to avoid pushing on with the venture. Three years in Uni is three years i dont have to think about the business.

So i guess my question to you guys is, do you need to know it all? Am i using this as just another excuse. For instance i know allot about my chosen products (video games) and i honestly feel quite comfortable dealing with these products. Iv learn quite a bit about the platform ill be using and it mostly seems to run itself. Its just the business side of things i worry about, things such as dealing with taxes, dealing with customer invoices and the general day to day running of the store.

ssbob

steve_ wrote: »

So i guess my question to you guys is, do you need to know it all? Am i using this as just another excuse. For instance i know allot about my chosen products (video games) and i honestly feel quite comfortable dealing with these products. Iv learn quite a bit about the platform ill be using and it mostly seems to run itself. Its just the business side of things i worry about, things such as dealing with taxes, dealing with customer invoices and the general day to day running of the store.

Hi Steve,

"Is Feidir Leat"- "Yes you can"

Just go for it, you will learn as you go.But you will need advice. This is a great place to start but actually speaking to an accounting professional might be no harm.

Advice on the business side of things(accountant here):

Is there money to be made once you factor in all costs, do you expect to exceed more than €37,500 in net sales(if so you will have to register for vat)

A simple business plan might be your first port of call.

steve_

thanks ssbob, i only finished a start your own business course with partas, and although it was interesting i would of liked to be working towards a finished business plan but each week had different topics. I still learned some things though. I dont think ill hit 37500 in year one, also im hoping to mainly deal with preowned stock so i wouldnt be charged VAT on any of that so theres no need to apply for VAT until i exceed 37500. One thing im concerned about is capital, i only work part time and have no savings. im finding it hard to get any solid projects in place due to the varying costs of games, some are worth 5 euro or worth 50 euro. This is a hurdle im struggling to jump over

Axwell

Where are you going to source the games to sell? I assume you are targetting only the second hand market as you will find it virtually impossible to sell brand new games or to source them. What will make people want to buy them off you as oppose to the many other options that are out there?

By not registering for vat you will not be able to charge your customers Vat or claim back Vat on expenses for the business so you will need to look more into this. Theres a lot more to it than build the website and they will come so you will really need to do your homework on all aspects of this, especially if you dont have any savings etc to put into it to get you up and running.

steve_

Yes ill be dealing with preowned stock so ill be getting my stock through customers. I understand i cant claim VAT but there is nothing i need to acquire that ill be charged VAT on. I think for year one i wont need to register for VAT but hopefully if the business takes off then i will be buying new stock and registering for VAT. Iv been in touch with wholesalers here in Ireland for which to get new stock from. As for what brings customers to me as apposed to other sites, im going to be doing our own reviews nothing copy and pasted from other sites. As well as trying to involve the gaming community by having game nights and social gaming events. I think to begin, the trade in market is more flexible as i can set the prices myself for both trade in value and selling value. Where as with new stock im quite restricted.

Oasis678

Hi I am in the same position. I have been up and down like a yo yo each week wondering if starting a business is the right way to go. But overall i think go for it.
I would recommend doing a start your own business course as well. i did one with the NCI and found it excellent.
Doing a business plan is hard work but worthwhile as it gets u considering every aspect of the business.
It would also be of benefit to talk to an accountant as i found he considered additional expenses i hadnt considered. mine also came to bank with me to apply for start up loan as figures arent my strong point. some of them do first consultation free so you have nothing to lose talking to an accountant. You dont need to know it all. If you are willing to learn you will get by the obstacles along the way. Best of Luck

steve_

I think starting with no money isnt a good idea, my plan is to save for the next few months and get a few grand in place. Hopefully the games are shifting quick enough so i dont run into cashflow problems right from the start. A friend owns a local newspaper and is willing to give me free advertising for a few weeks when i start trading so hopefully that will bring in some customers. But i guess ill never really know unless i give it a go. Im thinking of taking with someone from partas i believe they have mentors you can speak to

bobbytables

Hey OP I understand completely where you're coming from in terms of the rollercoaster of emotions that most entrepreneurs go through.

As Henry Ford once said "Whether you think you'll fail or succeed, you're right!". So attitude, motivation & confidence is half the battle while you contend with indicators that suggest "you can't". As others have suggested have a business plan. Know how your business will earn you a healthy slice of your target market & profit. The logistics of your immediate day to day operations, milestones, goals, etc.

Without these things you have to call this a project instead of a business. It's all about your ROI. Every entrepreneur questions if they know enough when they step forward. All I can say to you is don't fool yourself or let anyone that hasn't been through this process sap your motivation.

Best of luck

ssbob

steve_ wrote: »

I think starting with no money isnt a good idea, my plan is to save for the next few months and get a few grand in place. Hopefully the games are shifting quick enough so i dont run into cashflow problems right from the start. A friend owns a local newspaper and is willing to give me free advertising for a few weeks when i start trading so hopefully that will bring in some customers. But i guess ill never really know unless i give it a go. Im thinking of taking with someone from partas i believe they have mentors you can speak to

Hi Steve whereabouts you based?

Wow, free advertising is a great plug!!! What I wiould say is to spend decent money on the website because the higher ranking you have on google then the more hits to your site, footfall etc follows...................

Your business plan will determine how much start up cash you need and will need for the first 3-6 months so thats where you start.

nice1franko

ssbob wrote: »

...do you expect to exceed more than €37,500 in net sales(if so you will have to register for vat)

My understanding was that if he's just selling products online that he doesn't need to worry about registering for vat til he hits 75k in sales.

See: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/registration/index.html#reg3

Although, looking at it now I'm not sure what this means:

(c) €37,500 for persons making mail-order or distance sales into the State,

Does that mean online stores?

ssbob

nice1franko wrote: »

My understanding was that if he's just selling products online that he doesn't need to worry about registering for vat til he hits 75k in sales.

See: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/registration/index.html#reg3

Although, looking at it now I'm not sure what this means:



Does that mean online stores?

Ya I suppose you could argue each way but I would suggest he would be better off registering anyway once he feels the €37,500 mark will be reached to air on the side of caution. Vat is a neutral tax anyway for a business but agreed it will affect his pricing as he will be using the 21% rate, something definitely to consider in the business plan.

Steve, if you have nothing to lose .ie no kids, mortgage etc, and the idea does inspire you then you just have to take the plunge.
Believe in yourself, and don't be afraid of failure. How you respond to mistakes and failure is the important thing if it doesnt work out.
I did a 4 year mkt and mgt degree, but compared to what I learned in my first business at 21, I might as well of not gone to college at all.

Read some books from successful businessmen, some rags to riches stories. Watch the apprentice (Uk :-) ) , get a hold of shark tank episodes if you can.
Doing these kinds of things help to inspire you (at least they do for me) because your immersing yourself in the right mindset to get things done.

vendexo

You will never know it all.
Learn what you can from books, online resources, courses, local city and county enterprise boards, mentors etc.

So, know enough to get you started on the right path.

Then, there's always fora like this one to give free advice to you when you need it.

Good luck!

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

steve_ wrote: »

Basically my business is to set up a website selling products......and thats it really. Ill be using a open source platform for the store and realistically i could be up and running in no time. But i keep putting myself off by thinking its not achievable or its too much a risk or i dont know enough to make it successful. I guess its this feeling that i lack knowledge where alot of the fear stems from, the feeling of delving into the unknown is a scary propect in anyones book. I was thinking about attending Uni to do a business course but upon reflection it seems thats just me giving myself another distraction to avoid pushing on with the venture. Three years in Uni is three years i dont have to think about the business.

So i guess my question to you guys is, do you need to know it all? Am i using this as just another excuse. For instance i know allot about my chosen products (video games) and i honestly feel quite comfortable dealing with these products. Iv learn quite a bit about the platform ill be using and it mostly seems to run itself. Its just the business side of things i worry about, things such as dealing with taxes, dealing with customer invoices and the general day to day running of the store.

The best way to learn is to just get out there and start doing it, limit your down side risk before you start investing big money - soft launch and test it. In many ways yes you are using it as an excuse but that's ok most people don't start a business for that very reason and well, lets face it, the world needs employee's as well as entrepreneurs .

A free platform that runs it self??? Clearly sounds a bit too good to be true but hey you will learn and adjust as you go. The best example I can give is an airplane never starts off knowing exactly how the flight will be, winds vary but since the pilot knows the goal, the destination, they make slight adjustments as the winds change to end up where they need to be. But if they never took off till the wind was perfect they would never get to the destination on time.

steve_

Thanks guys for all the responses. Iv been reading books for the past while from Duncan Bannatyne, Richard Branson, Donald Thrump ect ect. And got to say they are quite motivational.

@El Rifle, i dont have a mortgage but i do have a 3 month old baby. But i have the support of my family. I would rather take the plunge instead of always thinking "what if"

@Ronan, when i said the platform runs itself i really meant that it can handle the ordering process automatically. I would still have to manually do things such as adjusting stock, adding new items to the inventory, debiting customer accounts, end of day reports ect ect. But from a customer stand point all the process is taken care of. Finding products, proceeding to checkout and paying for the product is all automated.

Axwell

steve_ wrote: »

As for what brings customers to me as apposed to other sites, im going to be doing our own reviews nothing copy and pasted from other sites. As well as trying to involve the gaming community by having game nights and social gaming events. I think to begin, the trade in market is more flexible as i can set the prices myself for both trade in value and selling value. Where as with new stock im quite restricted.

Hi Steve, I dont think personally that the above is enough to set you apart to be honest. If I was to trade a game with you what incentive is there, what stops me going into xtravision where I can trade it against a new game I want to get? At best you would only be offering a few euro more to me or it wouldnt be worth your while. Also a lot of people just buy directly off people on adverts when looking for second hand games.

Where are you based?
Will you have a premises to run social events and gaming nights?
Have you looked at the competition out there doing this same sort of thing?

steve_

Hey Axwell i understand the concerns you have. And obviously your right that initially i wouldnt have new stock to trade against. But that is something that would come as the business grows. Im based in Dublin (Tallaght) but games could be traded in from all over the country via post. One thing i would be doing that is different is that i would offer home collection. So if you have titles you want to trade in you would simply sit by and wait for your games to be collected. Naturally there would be a small fee, but it would save you having to take your games to a store to find out a trade in price. I know this wont define the business but it will hopefully draw more customers.

As for having premises, no i dont have anything yet. But a venue could be sourced quite easily.

I have looked at the competition, Game, gamestop, gamesnash, play.com ect ect and i know there is alot of competition.

Axwell

Hi Steve,

There is a lot of competition and I think obviously looking at gamesnash is important as they have the premises to have social events etc and also do the postal trade ins etc. Not sure the whole home collection thing would work really, well it would work locally maybe but it would cancel out a lot of your profits so cant see it being much of a runner.

I think this one is a slow burner so unless you have money to invest from the get go adding costs like home collection and a premises for social events will be tough. Also unless you have a good bit of stock in place to begin with (and stock that people would want) there will be no trade market and all transactions will be trade ins for cash.

Not trying to be negative or put you off but its a risky business to get into with so much competition out there already and nothing to really set you a good bit apart from them.

steve_

Thanks axwell i appreciate your input. I fully understand that its hard to differentiate myself from the competition. And in terms of what i have to offer i dont have much to compete with. But what will be different is my content, my reviews my videos my general knowledge of gaming.

Home delivery initially will eat into profits but hopefully if the idea is adopted i would be collecting alot of stock each week. To begin it will be slow but hopefully through advertising and social media i hope to draw in enough customers. There would be a catchment area for delivery much like a local fast food place. I wouldnt do collections all over the country.

Also your right about having stock already in place. I understand i will need cash in place as the majority of trade in's will be for cash. But thats just something that needs to be done. Once games start coming in naturally the customers will shift towards trade in's for credit instead of cash.

I really appreciate your input and take it all onboard. But at the end of the day the only way im really going to find out if it works is by just doing it.

antoinolachtnai

Is there any way you can do affiliate deals with existing players in this Market? You could do well concentrating on the thing you are really good at, ie the games and your knowledge of them rather than getting involved in the capital and labour intensive business of sales and distribution? This could also put you into the global Market rather than being stuck dealing with Ireland or Ireland/Uk only.

I know a distributor who has gotten in pretty big trouble recently. He is a business person with an accountancy background and a great track record. I think he would readily admit that marketing and information is now much more important than physical distribution and will be a big part of his future business especially as distribution becomes electronic.

He would rather not have the whole physical distribution headache now if he could get rid of it.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

steve_ wrote: »

Hey Axwell i understand the concerns you have. And obviously your right that initially i wouldnt have new stock to trade against. But that is something that would come as the business grows. Im based in Dublin (Tallaght) but games could be traded in from all over the country via post. One thing i would be doing that is different is that i would offer home collection. So if you have titles you want to trade in you would simply sit by and wait for your games to be collected. Naturally there would be a small fee, but it would save you having to take your games to a store to find out a trade in price. I know this wont define the business but it will hopefully draw more customers.

As for having premises, no i dont have anything yet. But a venue could be sourced quite easily.

I have looked at the competition, Game, gamestop, gamesnash, play.com ect ect and i know there is alot of competition.

Hope you don't mind me dropping by since we're mentioned here.

Truth of the matter is the gaming industry is in turmoil at the moment. All the major retailers (and I don't count us as major retailers btw )are savagely cutting prices and indeed loss leading on game sale prices just to keep cash flow going. There are times we can buy stock cheaper in a local high street big chain store than we can off the official distribution channels. Likewise the big chains have been accused of buying each others stock at retail (last memorable one was Game were alledgedly giving store managers permission to take money out of the till to buy 3DS consoles in Tesco ! as they were cheaper there than Game buying off Nintendo. :eek: Online retailers based outside of the EU sell new games VAT free and this is putting severe pressure onto the market here.

I know that this may not be relevant to you considering your intention to only deal in pre owned games but what needs to be understood is that the reason the big players are doing this discounting is to target the pre owned market. It is the pre owned market that they ultimately want at the moment. As such you're in direct competition with the part of the business they want most.

Axwell has made some very solid points there which I won't repeat (I would echo though the draw of new games to trade in against - most people trade in against new games) but your response about home collections intrigues me. Our trade in service is postal based and we pay the postage costs to get the games into us. Customers can get their trade in quote from us without leaving the house (and HMV are launching an Iphone APP that will allow you to get instant trade in quotes online - I'm sure others will follow eventually, what's stopping them is they don't want everyone knowing what they are paying) so the only benefit in the market place you have when home collecting is that the person does not have to leave their house. How many people though would pay for that service ?

You also need to consider the exposure you have to values of games dropping. You can take a trade in now for €34 credit hoping to sell it for €39 and then 2 weeks later realise that the game is now selling for €30 pre owned or that the new game price has been slashed further pushing down the pre owned value leaving you with a loss on the game. You need to turn over the games asap to avoid this and it's something that's hard to do when starting off. We were trading in Black OPs at €40 a few weeks ago and I have seen it on sale in one of our competitors pre owned for €29 in the last couple of days.

Online passes, access codes only being available with new games are already eating into the pre owned market digital distribution will do more damage to it. Publishers don't like the pre owned sales (for obvious reasons and reasons which I feel a re justified) so it's a market that is under threat from the product creators at all times.

In short it's a minefield out there and hand on my heart if I knew where it would have gone 3 years ago when we launched I wouldn't have gone ahead with it. It's why we are diversifying into so many other areas away from direct retail to try and make our business sustainable.

I see where you're going with the social aspect and that perhaps is something to work with. If you were to put in place a co-op situation where members were trading amongst themselves, either through you as a medium or at social evenings etc like you mentioned.

I know you may be inclined to think all of the above is me trying to protect my business but all of it is true. You could lose a fortune trying to establish a business in a market that is already very overcrowded and shrinking rapidly. We've invested upwards of €100k directly into establishing the business and that's what you would need to be able to burn without cash flow needs like stock holding etc to get you established I'd heed the advice here of trying to find a way that doesn't involve great financial exposure. Of course if you have that kind of money to play with I know someone with an established gaming retail site that would happily sell it to you

ssbob

Gamesnash.ie: Pat wrote: »

I see where you're going with the social aspect and that perhaps is something to work with. If you were to put in place a co-op situation where members were trading amongst themselves, either through you as a medium or at social evenings etc like you mentioned.

This may be the best piece of advice you will ever receive. No need to deal in merchandise, rather let the gamesters trade with each other on your website(sort of like eBay/adverts/betfair) and you make your money through online advertising and offering premium accounts to gamesters but let the original sign-up be free including up to "say" 5 trades......................food for thought, very little start up costs other than website design, a sh1t load of advertising though.....................

Good luck with it.

steve_

Thanks alot Pat for your post, glad your being so honest. I really like the idea of creating a hub to let gamers trade with eachother. Just to be clear, how would i generate money other then online advertising? Would people be paying a subscription to use the site? Also if gamers where trading on the site, would they post the games to eachother or directly to me (and games are posted once both titles have been received)? Its an interesting idea and cuts costs quite alot. Plus it allows me to focus on the aspects i enjoy more such as doing game reviews and videos.

ssbob

steve_ wrote: »

Thanks alot Pat for your post, glad your being so honest. I really like the idea of creating a hub to let gamers trade with eachother. Just to be clear, how would i generate money other then online advertising? Would people be paying a subscription to use the site? Also if gamers where trading on the site, would they post the games to eachother or directly to me (and games are posted once both titles have been received)? Its an interesting idea and cuts costs quite alot. Plus it allows me to focus on the aspects i enjoy more such as doing game reviews and videos.

As I said above Steve, you could base it on the adverts/ebay model, whereby people post games for trade/sale on your site, people bid/trade with them and everyone gets feedback.....................you can make money through online advertising and also through a subscription based service. Adverts charge you when you want to bump an ad.............................You will differ to those sites because you will be solely focused on the games world. This may also allow you to work a full time job.

antoinolachtnai

Games are not my thing, but is there really a long-term future in the physical distribution of games?

GaylaBells02

oh yes, everybody needs to know it

steve_

Games dont have a long future in terms of being a physical platform. Maybe 10 years to fully make the switch. In Ireland anyways!! Ill look into the idea of just creating a platform for games to trade on.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Games are not my thing, but is there really a long-term future in the physical distribution of games?

There is a long term future but it will be a diminishing market. I believe psychical products will always be in demand not just from those without the broadband infrastructure but there will definitely be a large shift towards digital.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

steve_ wrote: »

Games dont have a long future in terms of being a physical platform. Maybe 10 years to fully make the switch. In Ireland anyways!! Ill look into the idea of just creating a platform for games to trade on.

Hi Steve - I hadn't given it a lot of thought when I mentioned it the social thing but here's one for you.

Check out swap2shop.ie - I came across them a few weeks ago advertising a meet up in Clonnee. They are aimed at clothes but you could do something similar with games. Charge an entrance fee and take in the games to be swapped exchange for tickets which the attendees use to "buy" games from the pool. They colour code / grade the stock to distinguish value ie 2 red games = 1 green game, etc - Have a look here

So you would make money on entrance fees to the events. Also stock you are left with / building up with the graded colour swaps generating "profit" as such could be sold online yourself or we could do something with you in regards to selling through the stock / supplying intial stock etc as we have the customer base to do it.

Just a thought as I said - up to you if you want to run with it

ssbob

Gamesnash.ie: Pat wrote: »

Hi Steve - I hadn't given it a lot of thought when I mentioned it the social thing but here's one for you.

Check out swap2shop.ie - I came across them a few weeks ago advertising a meet up in Clonnee. They are aimed at clothes but you could do something similar with games. Charge an entrance fee and take in the games to be swapped exchange for tickets which the attendees use to "buy" games from the pool. They colour code / grade the stock to distinguish value ie 2 red games = 1 green game, etc - Have a look here

So you would make money on entrance fees to the events. Also stock you are left with / building up with the graded colour swaps generating "profit" as such could be sold online yourself or we could do something with you in regards to selling through the stock / supplying intial stock etc as we have the customer base to do it.

Just a thought as I said - up to you if you want to run with it

Fair play Pat for giving a man a leg up.

steve_

Thanks alot Pat, its a very interesting idea. I was thinking something similar a while back but more focused online. I wonder if the same concept would work online? Have a site where gamers send in there games and have their accounts debited with credit to use off other games. Bronze= 10 credits, Silver= 20 credits ect ect. The problem i ran into was trying to determine how the games are graded. The most fair way i could think of was grading games based off age. So brand new games get a gold sticker regardless of market success or critical acclaim. Games that are more then 2-3 months old get silver and so on. But i think a few events would need to be done first before people send in there games to a brand new site. Customers would need to know we are trust worthy. Thanks a lot Pat for you advice and suggestions.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

steve_ wrote: »

Thanks alot Pat, its a very interesting idea. I was thinking something similar a while back but more focused online. I wonder if the same concept would work online? Have a site where gamers send in there games and have their accounts debited with credit to use off other games. Bronze= 10 credits, Silver= 20 credits ect ect. The problem i ran into was trying to determine how the games are graded. The most fair way i could think of was grading games based off age. So brand new games get a gold sticker regardless of market success or critical acclaim. Games that are more then 2-3 months old get silver and so on. But i think a few events would need to be done first before people send in there games to a brand new site. Customers would need to know we are trust worthy. Thanks a lot Pat for you advice and suggestions.

I would be very careful about grading them with any kind of set formula as it will lead you open to exploitation. Market success or critical acclaim is irrelevant when it comes to pricing a game - your only factor is how much is it worth in money terms. Look at the threads in the gaming forums about Gamestops blanket trade in offers and you will see what I mean People will find loopholes in anything - if you have games advertised at a certain credit value be that in money terms or token credit terms etc and that valuation is over valued you will be avalanched with them in exchange for items that may be under valued. For example at the moment Gamestop are doing any new release for €3 when you trade in 3 games from a set list. Some of those games can be picked up with a bit of creative trading in for less than an €7.00 meaning the customer could get a new game for circa €20 plus a bit of time. We were selling some of the games on the last list for €6.99 delivered and overnight had sold out of them to customers who I know wentt straight to Gamestop and purchased a new title. This happens all the time and ultimately you will lose out.

We went through similar options and learning curves starting off - we at one stage had a seperate dedicated site for generating trade in credit but ultimately we didn't have the resources to keep on top of it. So the moment a game went down in price on the high street (even if it was a special offer in one retailer) we would see a flood of them being traded in at higher than that retail price so people were working the system to get new games from us for as little as possible (and I don't blame them at all btw ) We scrapped it completely in the end.

Any system like that, that is online or publically valued in advance is open to this. If you go down the route of meetups at venues then people can only swap from within the group that is there which is less open to determined exploitation.