One party breaking joint lease

KTRIC

I signed a joint lease with my now ex-girlfriend and we moved into a property at the start of last month. She has since decided at the weekend to break the lease and move out without notice. She called the landlord and told him to keep her deposit. We both signed the lease and both split the rent and deposit 50 - 50.

I would like to stay in the house as I have just moved in , find it comfortable and have asked my brother to move in with me as he coincidentally needs accommodation himself.

Does anyone know about the legality of her actions and where I stand regarding the lease I cosigned on ??

Her dog also soiled the carpet which I had to get professionally cleaned and scratched the paint on one of the internal doors. The paint is not an issue but would I be entitled to chase her for the bills and the cost of the cleaning ?

I've put these questions to Threshold but they neither answer the phone or reply to emails.

smelltheglove

The cost of damages to the accomadation should come out of her deposit tbh. If your brother is to move in you need to ensure the landlord is ok with this and he will need to be included on the contract, paying a deposit too.

KTRIC

smelltheglove wrote: »

The cost of damages to the accomadation should come out of her deposit tbh. If your brother is to move in you need to ensure the landlord is ok with this and he will need to be included on the contract, paying a deposit too.

Thats what I thought. The landlord as nice as he is has said that the current lease is null and void because it was broken. Surely seeing as I am there this is not the case. Also would she not be responsible for paying rent for 1 month as she didn't give notice ?

smelltheglove

Well pretty uch it is, the current lease is for a couple, now there is just you, it does not mean you should have to lose your deposit though, he should allow you to carry on with your deposit on the new lease and just have your brother pay his share of a deposit.

Victor

Surely the lease hasn't been broken yet. I presume the rent has been paid for the current month.

What needs to happen is that she nominates your brother as a replacment on the lease. You take a deposit from your brother. You use her deposit to make good the carpet and paint. Make sure the landlord agrees to this in writing.

If he refuses to accept a replacement, you are entitled to leave and get the full deposit back, less the carpet and paint.

KTRIC

Victor wrote: »

Surely the lease hasn't been broken yet. I presume the rent has been paid for the current month.

Yep, its paid until the 8th of June. He was fairly adament that the lease has been broken.

Victor wrote: »

What needs to happen is that she nominates your brother as a replacment on the lease. You take a deposit from your brother. You use her deposit to make good the carpet and paint. Make sure the landlord agrees to this in writing.

Ideally if I can get her to agree to do it. Is she entitled to tell the landlord to keep her half of the deposit ?

Victor wrote: »

If he refuses to accept a replacement, you are entitled to leave and get the full deposit back, less the carpet and paint.

I'd actually really like to stay. Would that be the entire deposit or just half ?

Victor

Its a little bit complicated because its a joint lease. You might talk to Threshold. www.threshold.ie

Note that notice has not been given unless its in writing.

Surely the landlord would love the place to be occupied given the current market.

If he decides that you have to move out and that he isn't giving back the deposit, start a dispute with the PRTB. www.prtb.ie

KTRIC

Ok, here's a little update.

The landlord asked me to sign a new lease with just myself on it. Which I agreed to. It comes into effect next week when the rental month ends.

He also asked me to give him the second half of the deposit as he is giving her back her deposit. Which means I just gave him the €950 for the deposit which is fine for the new lease but now I also have to give him the rent next week myself because my brother can't move in yet.

She didn't give any notice and just walked away and is getting her deposit. She paid for the cleaning of the carpet and the paint will be put right. Surely she still owes rent , but I'm not sure how much ??

Any suggestions ?

Victor

Possibilities are up to the date your brother moves in or a month after she said she was moving out.

odds_on

Victor wrote: »

Its a little bit complicated because its a joint lease. You might talk to Threshold. www.threshold.ie

Note that notice has not been given unless its in writing.

Surely the landlord would love the place to be occupied given the current market.

If he decides that you have to move out and that he isn't giving back the deposit, start a dispute with the PRTB. www.prtb.ie

You cannot just give notice if the lease is a Fixed Term lease. You are bound to the lease until its termination date.

Where the lease is a joint lease, the tenants are "jointly and severally liable" for all debts - if one tenant does not pay his share, the other tenants must cover the short-fall.
I think (but maybe wrong) that where one tenant in a joint tenancy gives notice, it applies to all tenants. However, at the moment, I cannot trace where I read this.

As Victor said earlier, it would have been simpler for the departing tenant to assign their part of the lease. But if the landlord considered the lease to be terminated, a new lease is necessary.

KTRIC

odds_on wrote: »

. But if the landlord considered the lease to be terminated, a new lease is necessary.

Ok, which is now the case. Would she be liable for any rent at this point ?

OS119

KTRIC wrote: »

Ok, which is now the case. Would she be liable for any rent at this point ?

is anyone going to be out of pocket for the period between her leaving and the new tenant taking her place - given that she has effectively told the LL to use her half of the deposit to cover costs?

if the answer is 'no' then she's not liable for any further costs - and, being honest, it soulds much more like you want to screw her over/prolong the break-up than you needing her to pay her legitimate costs.

if i've got you right, she's effectively given the LL €475 (her half of the deposit) to clean up after her (both figuratively and litterally), if that covers her rent for the void period, cleans the carpet and paints the door then she's entitled to any money left from that, if not she can be asked to cough up for any money remaining.

unless we're talking about €100's - and you can't afford to pay it yourself - i'd just leave it alone, nothing good will come of you chasing this girl for money. you aren't going to get the clean break you need, and she's going to think you're a petty minded creep who can't let go.

[strays into PI...]

KTRIC

OS119 wrote: »

is anyone going to be out of pocket for the period between her leaving and the new tenant taking her place - given that she has effectively told the LL to use her half of the deposit to cover costs?

Did you read the thread ?? I am going to be severely out of pocket. To the tune of half the months rent by the looks of it. She is getting her deposit back. All of it.

OS119 wrote: »

if the answer is 'no' then she's not liable for any further costs - and, being honest, it soulds much more like you want to screw her over/prolong the break-up than you needing her to pay her legitimate costs.

Where are you getting off with this attitude. She walked out and left me to pay the rent , nearly left me homeless.

OS119 wrote: »

if i've got you right, she's effectively given the LL €475 (her half of the deposit) to clean up after her (both figuratively and litterally), if that covers her rent for the void period, cleans the carpet and paints the door then she's entitled to any money left from that, if not she can be asked to cough up for any money remaining.

No, you haven't gotten it right.

OS119 wrote: »

unless we're talking about €100's - and you can't afford to pay it yourself - i'd just leave it alone, nothing good will come of you chasing this girl for money. you aren't going to get the clean break you need, and she's going to think you're a petty minded creep who can't let go.

I'd be more likely to think you have a vested interest in this rather than coming on here to give advice.

OS119

KTRIC wrote: »

...I'd be more likely to think you have a vested interest in this rather than coming on here to give advice.

you think i'm your ex-girlfriend?

i did read the thread, but you have been astonishingly unclear about what actually happened and the amounts involved - and you did say in the OP that she told the LL to use her deposit to 'sort it out'.

if the LL chose not to use her deposit to cover missed rent - the period between her leaving and the replacement tenant arriving - after she asked him to (or, at least, you suggesting that thats what had happened) then your beef is with the LL, not her.

KTRIC

OS119 wrote: »

you think i'm your ex-girlfriend?.

Wow, are you for real ?? how did you actually think I meant that ?

OS119 wrote: »

i did read the thread, but you have been astonishingly unclear about what actually happened and the amounts involved - and you did say in the OP that she told the LL to use her deposit to 'sort it out'.

if the LL chose not to use her deposit to cover missed rent - the period between her leaving and the replacement tenant arriving - after she asked him to (or, at least, you suggesting that thats what had happened) then your beef is with the LL, not her.

I think you should put your head down for the night and keep out of a discussion that you clearly haven't the intelligence to understand.

OS119

KTRIC wrote: »

...I think you should put your head down for the night and keep out of a discussion that you clearly haven't the intelligence to understand.

and you profess surprise that your girlfriend left you?

areshole, know thyself...

Victor

Knock it off the two of you.

Giblet

If the landlord is getting a sustained income throughout all of this, then the only thing that needs to happen is to sort out any personal problems with the financing of that lease yourselves. You both signed a lease, it doesn't matter who paid what, just that the amount was paid. If you are paying or have paid more than your "half" then it is up to you to chase the remainder, you can sue your ex-girlfriend for any costs incurred by her skipping on the lease.

KTRIC

Giblet wrote: »

If the landlord is getting a sustained income throughout all of this, then the only thing that needs to happen is to sort out any personal problems with the financing of that lease yourselves. You both signed a lease, it doesn't matter who paid what, just that the amount was paid. If you are paying or have paid more than your "half" then it is up to you to chase the remainder, you can sue your ex-girlfriend for any costs incurred by her skipping on the lease.

Thanks Giblet, thats the conclusion i have come to whilst discussing this with family.

KTRIC

My main concern at this stage is what rent she is responsible for ? She paid up to mid this coming week and then the new lease takes hold. The landlord is under the impression that is between myself and herself regarding the rent. Others have said drop it but I'm going to be seriously out of pocket until I can get someone in because she just walked away.

Giblet

Wait, she has paid all of the old lease and a new one begins? Then I'm sorry, you might be S.O.L as the old lease was terminated with her paying the full amount due and now a new lease is in place! This isn't the case is it?

KTRIC

Giblet wrote: »

Wait, she has paid all of the old lease and a new one begins? Then I'm sorry, you might be S.O.L as the old lease was terminated with her paying the full amount due and now a new lease is in place! This isn't the case is it?

Thats pretty much the case to be honest. So essentially she's walked away with no financial repercussions and I'm left to pick up the pieces :mad:

Giblet

You might have had more luck if you didn't agree to a new lease and walked away from the old one. Crap I know!

KTRIC

Giblet wrote: »

You might have had more luck if you didn't agree to a new lease and walked away from the old one. Crap I know!

My hand was forced by the landlord, he said the old one was null and void because she walked away. I wanted to stay in the house and he said I need to sign a new lease.