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Dublin Bus route 84x Problems

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  • 25-05-2011 9:07am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭


    Hiya, I was waiting for an 84x for over an hour yesterday evening, I get on the bus at Stephen's green. Does anyone have any info on why there was no buses between 5.30 and 6.30? Thanks


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Pinkmoon19


    Waited for an 84x from 5.30 yesterday evening until 6.40, usually there would be at least 3 buses between these times. No updates on the dublin bus website and no information at the bus stop. Needless to say this was fairly irritating :mad:when the bus finally arrived the bus driver explained that due to cutbacks and staff holidays this is going to be the way it is for the summer, given that there is no other bus going from dublin city to greystones I am seriously annoyed about this. Does anyone have any other information on this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Why don't you contact DB directly?

    There's been no timetable change. I would not necessarily take a driver's word on that. The 1730 and 1750 services should be operating.

    Give them a shout on their facebook or twitter pages or email them directly.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,703 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Moved from Newbies & FAQ to Commuting & Transport with redirect expiring in 7 days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭The_Wrecker


    They were offered out as overtime buy had no takers.
    The 1830 operated as he left me behind in Donnybrook!:eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    They were offered out as overtime buy had no takers.
    The 1830 operated as he left me behind in Donnybrook!:eek:
    Lol should have been offered to outside contractors, they would not have refused the work! Long may Dublin bus drivers have overtime just thrown at them to refuse! Were they all going to be driving the taxis later so didn't want the overtime?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Bazzer2


    From what I hear, it's not worth the while of many bus drivers to do overtime these days, as the taxman just gets most of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Bazzer2 wrote: »
    From what I hear, it's not worth the while of many bus drivers to do overtime these days, as the taxman just gets most of it.

    no more than any other job. He gets max 52%, 41% PAYE, 7% USC and 4% PRSI


  • Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭The_Wrecker


    Bazzer2 wrote: »
    From what I hear, it's not worth the while of many bus drivers to do overtime these days, as the taxman just gets most of it.

    With the hours i work im limited to 2hrs a day before the 10hr rule kicks in, so i cant do anything and many lads are the same.
    Today there were also lads who wanted to work but couldnt due to the working time act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭lil5


    Whereby I have some (but very limited) understanding in relation to 'regulation' being applied to a route to catch up with the schedule, I think that this seems to be more of an internal problem with the 'pool' of available drivers being to small to operate scheduled services.

    So the driver who told the OP that it was due to 'cutbacks and staff holidays' wasn't too far off the mark, as this would have an effect on the number of available drivers to do overtime.

    The 10-hour rule is hardly new and should already be built into the rosters. Or are some (less frequent? - e.g. 84X / 7B) routes just planned to being run by drivers on overtime and therefore more likely to experience 'non-running' services?


    The real issue here - as with 'regulation' - is that those 'non-running' services aren't communicated.

    In the case of the OP there should have been info going out via Twitter and RTPI that the 17:30 and 17:50 weren't run as soon as it was clear that there was no driver available.


    I presume as the services weren't run they didn't show up in the 'late' statistics ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Pinkmoon19


    They were offered out as overtime buy had no takers.
    The 1830 operated as he left me behind in Donnybrook!:eek:

    If the buses are listed on a timetable surely Dublin Bus has to commit to running the service, and yes it is more so a communication problem, whatever about not running them but just leaving customers standing for over an hour waiting for a bus it ridiculous! I emailed dublin bus about the problem and apparently it takes 15 days to get a response......really great customer service!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I would certainly agree that in the case of low frequency routes as the 84x a bus/driver should be pulled from a more frequent route to operate the service.

    It isn't fair that people have that long a wait.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I would certainly agree that in the case of low frequency routes as the 84x a bus/driver should be pulled from a more frequent route to operate the service.

    +1

    nobody would miss the 1 out of 15-20 46a's a hour, the missing 84x makes a big difference though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Pinkmoon19


    Exactly!! There isn't any other dublin city to greystones bus so it is a big problem!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Lol should have been offered to outside contractors, they would not have refused the work! Long may Dublin bus drivers have overtime just thrown at them to refuse! Were they all going to be driving the taxis later so didn't want the overtime?

    God be with the days,Foggy,My_Lad....:o

    Whilst not wishing to diss The Wreckers prosaic lament re his missing the 1830,and also mindful not to unseat Foggy_Lad as he hurtles along the home straight in his endless Grand National against Bus (and Coach) Drivers worldwide,its worth pointing out that the primary cause of the mayhap is a localised staff shortage.

    The ongoing Network Direct project has resulted in a raft of major alterations in most DB garages.

    With some garages losing routes and duties,whilst others gain them,often at short notice and lately with last minute alterations to the original plans.

    This has resulted in something of an Administrative lacuna,as DB strives to transfer drivers to suit the exigencies of the service.

    In the past,pre Working Time Act,the local shortfall would have been easily made up by overtime working.

    However,as The Wrecker points out,the implimentation of the Working Time Act has removed a great deal of the flexibility which management (not alone DB) could avail of.

    There were very good reasons why the Public Transport Industry EU wide enjoyed almost 10 years derogation from the Working Time Directive,upon which the Irish WT Act is based.

    The need to cope with last minute or unplanned unavailability of staff remains one of the long running requirements of Transport Management everywhere.

    The derogation allowed by the EU to "Mobile Workers" ie: Drivers,was originally meant to be a short-term delay to allow the Industry to devise rosters and operational changes to allow for the restrictions....

    The Industry,singularly failed to do any such thing,except to largely ignore the WTD and carry on as always in the hope that the EU would lose interest...which it did'nt.

    However,even as we speak,there are further transfers of staff being facilitated between garages which should see the end of non-appearance of Expresso services.

    That being said,I'd readily admit that Dublin Bus's history of Express Bus Operations is far from good.

    The 84X,in particular,has been allowed to stumble around the place with more and more Stops being added to further reduce the value of that `X`

    It has always been beyond my understanding why,particularly in these times of increasing fuel prices,we cannot manage to market a 1 hour uninterrupted journey for €1.90 (Travel90) :eek:

    I have litte doubt that with a little pushy targeted marketing DB could,and should fill every 84X from the Southern Cross in......:confused:

    Hopefully nicw's experience won't be repeated anytime soon....:o


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Pinkmoon19


    Hi Alek Smart, thanks for your post, so helpful!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    The stops on the N11 render the 84X a disaster.

    The bus is normally standing room only by the time it hits the Burlo and folks are frequently left behind at Donnybrook and UCD, only for folks to start jumping off at Stillorgan and stops beyond, when they could easily have taken 145 or 46A.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with the frequency, but perhaps it needs to be that the stops after Leeson St are cut back drastically on the outbound leg to discourage those who can take any bus along the corridor. I think no stops from UCD to Loughlinstown Hosp would cut it out nicely.

    It strikes me that DB lately is all about ensuring full busses, not a decent public service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    It strikes me that DB lately is all about ensuring full busses, not a decent public service.

    everything that's not a 145 or 46a on the N11 suffers (suffered) the same problems, IMO all these buses need to be made minimum fare to discourage short hops or simply not stop for setdowns.

    There is zero need for the 84X to drop off anywhere in advanced of Cornelscourt, or even Shankill as it's all covered already, 7B used to suffer the same, can't comment about now as don't use it any more


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    everything that's not a 145 or 46a on the N11 suffers (suffered) the same problems, IMO all these buses need to be made minimum fare to discourage short hops or simply not stop for setdowns.

    There is zero need for the 84X to drop off anywhere in advanced of Cornelscourt, or even Shankill as it's all covered already, 7B used to suffer the same, can't comment about now as don't use it any more
    Minimum fare isn't a deterrent if you have a weekly/monthly/annual ticket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Pinkmoon19


    I totally agree, there are so many different buses available to people on the N11 that there is really no need to pick up from there.
    I dont have a problem with the frequency either, all going to plan its perfect for commuting but at the end of a day at work the last thing I want to do is stand around for ages for a no-show bus.
    My main bone of contention with the whole thing is that if they are not going to provide the service they need to let people know in advance, its a very simple rule that customer service is essential to any business.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    God be with the days,Foggy,My_Lad....:o

    Whilst not wishing to diss The Wreckers prosaic lament re his missing the 1830,and also mindful not to unseat Foggy_Lad as he hurtles along the home straight in his endless Grand National against Bus (and Coach) Drivers worldwide,its worth pointing out that the primary cause of the mayhap is a localised staff shortage.

    The ongoing Network Direct project has resulted in a raft of major alterations in most DB garages.

    With some garages losing routes and duties,whilst others gain them,often at short notice and lately with last minute alterations to the original plans.

    This has resulted in something of an Administrative lacuna,as DB strives to transfer drivers to suit the exigencies of the service.

    In the past,pre Working Time Act,the local shortfall would have been easily made up by overtime working.

    However,as The Wrecker points out,the implimentation of the Working Time Act has removed a great deal of the flexibility which management (not alone DB) could avail of.

    There were very good reasons why the Public Transport Industry EU wide enjoyed almost 10 years derogation from the Working Time Directive,upon which the Irish WT Act is based.

    The need to cope with last minute or unplanned unavailability of staff remains one of the long running requirements of Transport Management everywhere.

    The derogation allowed by the EU to "Mobile Workers" ie: Drivers,was originally meant to be a short-term delay to allow the Industry to devise rosters and operational changes to allow for the restrictions....

    The Industry,singularly failed to do any such thing,except to largely ignore the WTD and carry on as always in the hope that the EU would lose interest...which it did'nt.

    However,even as we speak,there are further transfers of staff being facilitated between garages which should see the end of non-appearance of Expresso services.

    That being said,I'd readily admit that Dublin Bus's history of Express Bus Operations is far from good.

    The 84X,in particular,has been allowed to stumble around the place with more and more Stops being added to further reduce the value of that `X`

    It has always been beyond my understanding why,particularly in these times of increasing fuel prices,we cannot manage to market a 1 hour uninterrupted journey for €1.90 (Travel90) :eek:

    I have litte doubt that with a little pushy targeted marketing DB could,and should fill every 84X from the Southern Cross in......:confused:

    Hopefully nicw's experience won't be repeated anytime soon....:o

    Excellent post Alek!

    Good to hear.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Minimum fare isn't a deterrent if you have a weekly/monthly/annual ticket.

    true, which is why I also mentioned the limited (or non) set down proviso


  • Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭liger


    lil5 wrote: »
    Whereby I have some (but very limited) understanding in relation to 'regulation' being applied to a route to catch up with the schedule, I think that this seems to be more of an internal problem with the 'pool' of available drivers being to small to operate scheduled services.

    So the driver who told the OP that it was due to 'cutbacks and staff holidays' wasn't too far off the mark, as this would have an effect on the number of available drivers to do overtime.


    From talking to some of the managers in DB it appears that they are understaffed at the moment in relation of Drivers available: Shifts to be covered. But when the Network direct is complete they will have too many drivers, about 20% too many.


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Pinkmoon19


    Ha emailed Dublin Bus again about an hour ago to inform that there was now a thread discussing them on boards, received a call within half an hour explaining what happened on Tuesday, so here it is: Apparently the 5.30 bus left a little early and that is why I missed that bus, the 5.50 had a problem with a panel and was pulled over by the guards and not allowed to proceed until the problem was fixed, by the time the problem with the panel was resolved and the bus was in eden quay it was 6.10 and then there was a problem putting the 84x display up so the bus driver was suppossed to go to each stop and let people know that it was an 84x .................


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    Marvellous. Did they explain why the 17:30 left early? IMHO leaving early is far worse than leaving a few minutes late.

    Re the Display failure: All those brains and nobody thought, "Hey, why not use a pen and some paper and stick the number promenently on the windscreen". The best they could actually come up with was tell people at every stop... Un-fcuking-believable.

    It really beggars belief.


  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭lil5


    Must remember to attach link to boards-post to next e-mail to DB.
    Leaving early for a low-frequency route? Daft isn't the word.

    The number issue is probably to do with only certain routes being linked to garage.

    The explanation doesn't tally with the overtime issue though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Marvellous. Did they explain why the 17:30 left early? IMHO leaving early is far worse than leaving a few minutes late.

    Re the Display failure: All those brains and nobody thought, "Hey, why not use a pen and some paper and stick the number promenently on the windscreen". The best they could actually come up with was tell people at every stop... Un-fcuking-believable.

    It really beggars belief.

    Would a driver carry A4 sheets, sellotape and a black marker around with them all day every day to do that? I would not have thought so.

    It's fine if the bus has not left the depot but I don't think that drivers would carry stationery stocks....


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    nicw wrote: »
    Ha emailed Dublin Bus again about an hour ago to inform that there was now a thread discussing them on boards, received a call within half an hour explaining what happened on Tuesday, so here it is: Apparently the 5.30 bus left a little early and that is why I missed that bus, the 5.50 had a problem with a panel and was pulled over by the guards and not allowed to proceed until the problem was fixed, by the time the problem with the panel was resolved and the bus was in eden quay it was 6.10 and then there was a problem putting the 84x display up so the bus driver was suppossed to go to each stop and let people know that it was an 84x .................
    sounds like made up excuses to me.

    Why not just admit the couldn't be bothered running them like the other driver already admitted?


  • Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭The_Wrecker


    The 530 didnt operate (didnt leave the garage), the 550 left on the old times (early) and the 630 was a euro lad covering the 1uni for OT with an old VT that had no X on the display, which had to be changed before the journey started.


  • Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭The_Wrecker


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Would a driver carry A4 sheets, sellotape and a black marker around with them all day every day to do that? I would not have thought so.

    It's fine if the bus has not left the depot but I don't think that drivers would carry stationery stocks....

    The girl at the northbound services in Kilmac would quite often print off a number if required.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Would a driver carry A4 sheets, sellotape and a black marker around with them all day every day to do that? I would not have thought so.

    It's fine if the bus has not left the depot but I don't think that drivers would carry stationery stocks....
    Couldn't a small stash be left on each bus as a contingency?


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