Dropping out of union

forestfruits

Has anyone any idea if it Is possible to drop out of Asti? Can I continue to work without being a union member?

spurious

Yes and you will also gain any benefits you let others fight for.

doc_17

of course you can...what on earth made you think you couldn't?

But you also will not be able to receive the protection of the union. It's risky to pull out.

2011abc

Theyre far from perfect but who do you trust more ,your union or your principal/BOM?Stay in the union is my advice.

mrboswell

What protection?!?

As a relatively new teacher the unions seem to do nothing for new or soon to be qualified teachers. From what I see the union bosses are only interested in protecting their own salaries and those of well established teachers, not too far from retirement.

My union is a joke, just like the rest of them and the only reason I am a member of any union is because I teach practical subjects - just incase I ever nee legal backup in the case of an accident.

If it weren't for that I wouldn't have bothered joining up in the first place.

solerina

OP
I can see why you wnat to drop out of the union and I have considered it myself many times in the past but my advice to you is DONT !!
We have had a lot of issues in the past 3 years in our school and were it not for the ASTI we would never have managed to resolve any of them.
For years I though they did nothing for us.....and in the good times they dont, but when you need them they do help.......and you would be in serious trouble without their backup !!!

spurious

Many people working on CIDs would not have contracts at all if it were not for the people in the union who 'do nothing' for teachers.

gaeilgegrinds1

I'd have never received my CID had it not been for the union, I'm not mad about them but they do what it says on the tin. When they going gets tough they really do get going.

rainbowtrout

I was union rep for a year in my school ( we have it on a rotational basis). In that year we were able to get a CID for a teacher who was in the school 6 years and had still not got her CID. We also were able to secure 22 hours of teaching for two teachers who had been on 18 hours in their fourth year and our principal did not want them to get 18 hour CIDs or for them to be paid for 22 hours as they are entitled.

There are some issues we got nowhere with, but in terms of basic employment rights those teachers would still be fighting for hours (if they hadn't been let go at this stage) if they didn't have any union support.

byhookorbycrook

Unless you are in an union, you have no chance of being heard. I am fed up of people giving out about "the union" who never go to meetings.

seavill

spurious wrote: »

Yes and you will also gain any benefits you let others fight for.

This is what I hate about unions, the bullying attitude of certain members.

I am a union member, and I do attend union meetings. I won't go into my opinion on things that happen at those meetings that give me the opinion I have of unions.

I am not a great fan of unions but I do fear the lack of protection.

They can be useless at times, somehow they were unable to back me when it was needed when an unqualified teacher (as in not even started on a dip) was given hours in my subject ahead of me. I still to this day cannot figure out how they lost that arguement.

Spurious, it is everyone's right to be a member of a union or not. It is not for everyone, and if they choose not to be a member well then they will be left to fight their own corner when things come up like has been mentioned about CIDs. If a child in your school was to try to force someone into a group because they feel its right it would certainly be called bullying in my book.
Unions fight for the rights of their members, others may benefit at times. They won't at other times.

It is their decision.

spurious

seavill wrote: »

Spurious, it is everyone's right to be a member of a union or not. It is not for everyone, and if they choose not to be a member well then they will be left to fight their own corner when things come up like has been mentioned about CIDs. If a child in your school was to try to force someone into a group because they feel its right it would certainly be called bullying in my book.
Unions fight for the rights of their members, others may benefit at times. They won't at other times.

It is their decision.

Of course it's a person's own decision. Where exactly did I say it wasn't?
Often people think if they are not in the union they do not benefit from any gains. I pointed out this was not the case.

What benefits did the union fight for that do not apply to non-members?

seavill

spurious wrote: »

Of course it's a person's own decision. Where exactly did I say it wasn't?
Often people think if they are not in the union they do not benefit from any gains. I pointed out this was not the case.

What benefits did the union fight for that do not apply to non-members?

Spurious most of the time I agree completely with what you say on Boards.

Possibly I took up how you meant your first statement incorrectly. If so I apologise. I took it as the way it would have been said in my school, which would be as a snide comment.

Your last question is answered in the quote you used above.

kob29

TUI member here also considering pulling the plug- major issue is why union fees have not dropped in line with our salary cuts? Surely if the unions were all that invested in our interests they wouldnt be screwing us financially having already been squeezed to the limits. Nothing gave on their side ???? Union fees cost me two months petrol in the academic year putting it in perspective. Can no longer do both so which one goes is clear.

P.S. even the annual diary is poxy!!

doc_17

The TUI are reducing their subs again from July and when the pay cuts were brought inthe subs automatically came down then as well

alex73

UNIONS!, Absolutely the Biggest waste of money in today's society. Don't waste your money or your time.

TheDriver

doc_17 wrote: »

The TUI are reducing their subs again from July and when the pay cuts were brought inthe subs automatically came down then as well

I wasn't aware TUI have ever reduced their subs?

doc_17

TheDriver wrote: »

I wasn't aware TUI have ever reduced their subs?

As far as I know the union take a certain % of our pay based on the point you are at on the scale....so when pay wad cut in 09 so was the annual sub as they were taking it from a smaller figure

Art Teacher

If you leave the union, and at a later stage decide to rejoin - then you will have to pay your membership subs for the duration of your absence.

doc_17

But why are they re-joining? Probably to avail themselves of the protection of the union...

I'd imagine if they were out of a job that wouldn't apply

Art Teacher

If a teacher was unemployed then this would not apply.

I suppose they are rejoining for protection. No one is safe in the present climate; even teachers with permanent contracts ! Recent changes have been; Redeployment
Disciplinary procedures
Occupational heath scheme
That extra hour

i am sure there is loads more that could be added to the list above!
There is power in a Union! Thats an old Billy Bragg song I think!

mrboswell

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Unless you are in an union, you have no chance of being heard. I am fed up of people giving out about "the union" who never go to meetings.

That is a very fair point.
However meetings usually involve mostly "mature" teachers and a few newly qualified teachers do have a chance of being heard yet are rarely considered seriously.
The majority of attendees are well established in the union.

It is also worth considering that the unions are the first people in during the dip year looking to get you signed up and guess what - you never hear from them again.

I am going to start going to union meetings again next year and hopefully I'll be able to change my mind.

desmurphy

leave the union, and if you are the subject of a disciplinary hearing a performance issue or a complaint by a student or parent hire a solicitor. it will cost you a fortune...........its a no brainer

Lord TSC

It is also worth considering that the unions are the first people in during the dip year looking to get you signed up and guess what - you never hear from them again.

This has been said a few times by a few different peole but I was actually never approached last year when I did mine

When I am asked, if and when I ever find a bloody job, I will join, mainly cause I know what protections it offers and I don't want to be in a position where I'm left out in the cold should any dangerous situations arise. However I've got to admit after the last year, I'm quite disillusioned with them. It does strike me as a newly qualified teacher who is having to sit and watch as the few jobs become fewer and it becomes nigh on impossible to break into the sector that the unions have no interest in fighting for the "little guys", opting instead to secure the careers of some while leaving others to fend for themselves.:(

SerialComplaint

In fairness to the unions, they are and will continue to fight for their members, which is what their members are paying for them to do.

doc_17

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

This has been said a few times by a few different peole but I was actually never approached last year when I did mine

When I am asked, if and when I ever find a bloody job, I will join, mainly cause I know what protections it offers and I don't want to be in a position where I'm left out in the cold should any dangerous situations arise. However I've got to admit after the last year, I'm quite disillusioned with them. It does strike me as a newly qualified teacher who is having to sit and watch as the few jobs become fewer and it becomes nigh on impossible to break into the sector that the unions have no interest in fighting for the "little guys", opting instead to secure the careers of some while leaving others to fend for themselves.:(

I hear the unions all the time fighting for the retention of teaching allocations, special needs posts and further investment in education. If they had not been doing this there would be a lot less jobs available than there are.

Make no mistake about it - if there were no teaching unions you would have 40 kids in your primary school class - upwards of 30 in all your 2nd level classes, no subject choice and you'd be doing a hell lot more than 22 hours class contact time.

You may feel that you are receiving no benefit from the union but had they not been battling for improved conditions for the past 30 years would you have seen it as an attractive career option?

Hopefully when you find a job soon (and my sincerest best wishes - keep your head up something will come along) you will be able to avail yourself of the benefits of membership.

TheDriver

also remember you are the union, its teachers etc that make it all up bar a few HQ staff. If you want to see stuff done, then get involved.

carolmon

Art Teacher wrote: »

If you leave the union, and at a later stage decide to rejoin - then you will have to pay your membership subs for the duration of your absence.

Is this correct?
Any link to this on TUI website or literature?

Lord TSC

doc_17 wrote: »

I hear the unions all the time fighting for the retention of teaching allocations, special needs posts and further investment in education. If they had not been doing this there would be a lot less jobs available than there are.

Make no mistake about it - if there were no teaching unions you would have 40 kids in your primary school class - upwards of 30 in all your 2nd level classes, no subject choice and you'd be doing a hell lot more than 22 hours class contact time.

You may feel that you are receiving no benefit from the union but had they not been battling for improved conditions for the past 30 years would you have seen it as an attractive career option?

Hopefully when you find a job soon (and my sincerest best wishes - keep your head up something will come along) you will be able to avail yourself of the benefits of membership.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I fully appreciate the work they've done and the conditions they've helped set up. It's just that it's a whole lot harder to appreciate them when you're sitting at home with no job prospects in sight, watching as the few free positions are being shifted to redeployed teachers and the likes. On top of that, it's hard to feel they are doing a good job when I can't get a position but the schools are filled up with supposidly "retired" teachers doing sub work and the likes. I'm sure the benefits to being in one of the unions are plentiful. It's just hard to accept that when you're being forced out onto the sidelines....

Art Teacher

carolmon wrote: »

Is this correct?
Any link to this on TUI website or literature?

Carolman. Its in the TUI Rulebook about the payment of arrears - you have to pay one year sub in order to be allowed rejoin
http://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/Rule%20Booko%202011.pdf