Weightshift/ Weight transfer.

Dony

I can tell you here and now this is something I really struggle with but I'd just like to hear your ideas on the subject -or even get some help!

I really understand the philosophy behind it but I can't seem to manage it.
What I'm talking about is the lateral shift right at the top of the swing.

I heard some good analogies like 'pretend you're squashing the water from a sponge under your left foot just at the top of your swing' etc etc.

If you watch the pros or any good amateur, their right heel is clearly lifting off the ground at impact.
No matter how hard I try, I think I'm pretty flat footed at impact.
There's a difference between lateral weight shift and spinning out of the hips.

My bad shot these days more often than not is a straight pull which suggests an over the top due to not getting my weight accross.

Arrggh!
My head is wrecked.

NapoleonInRags

I find this to be a great drill for many aspects of the swing - including weight transfer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXReWUx4Cg

mr.mickels

Is your weight fully on your right side at the top of the swing, if the answer is Yes, then you will get different advice than if you still have too much weight on the left leg at this point. From your post I assume you have the weight on the right side at the top of the backswing and it is on the downswing where you have the issue getting your weight back onto the left side. I recently met a friend at the range with this exact issue. He had a good backswing but wasn't getting his weight through to the left side at all, had his weight on both feet at impact and for the followthrough. If this is your problem there is a simple drill which should help solve it. (His problem appeared to be thinking too much about the ball and the clubhead, he was delivering a blow AT the ball instead of swinging through it, the result was a fairly weak high slice, also had a pain in his back on the mid-left side from the mats, he thought it was just the effort of the swing but it was from the shock of the clubhead striking the mat in the style he was hitting, the energy of the swing was being absorbed back up the shaft to the point where he felt it, maybe you have this issue off hard mats also, shouldn't get it on the grass)

I told me friend on the range to make a few practice swings at an imaginery ball but on the downswing to make a kick at the ball with his right foot, kicking somewhere just inside the ball, so the club doesn't hit the foot!!! Obviously the weight has to come fully off the right side to make the kick. Do it a number of times, and then take a few swings where you feel you are going to take a good kick at the ball, but your toes of your right foot are stuck to the ground. When doing this it is vital that it is done smoothly and also that your head does not move to the left when the weight is moving to the left leg, until after you have impacted the ball. The advantage of this is it also concentrates on moving the weight down as well as forwards, giving more solid shots. When you do this and your toes are stuck to the ground you will see it is almost like trying to hit the ground with your right knee somewhere halfway between the ball and your left toe. If you do this smoothly without moving your head you will improve your hip movement and get your weight onto the left side.
When I told the guy at the range he hit his next dozen shots he told me they were by far the longest shots he ever hit with the club he was using and they were all straight, and it stands to reason, when they weight is transfered correctly it increases clubhead speed.

Try it and let me know if it helps. Of course if we saw a clip of your swing it would be alot easier to give an assessment.

TheGrump

Check out some of Shaun clements videos on you-tube. He has one or two on weight transfer which should help. His philosphy is more along the lines of swining correctly and then the weight transfer will happen naturally. He has a good video where he lines up about 10 balls in row, steps onto his right foot just before his back swing and then left foot just before down swing. Doing this he walks forward hitting each ball in turn

Dony

Thanks for the replies guys.
I'll certainly give them a try.
I've done all the Shawn Clements videos before as well as all the other youtube videos on the matter but just can't get it to click.
Shawn's philosophy is "it just happens" but it certainly is NOT the case for me.
Might put up a video of my own swing for some serious criticism!!

GreeBo

The latest views on this has changed significantly from what we were all taught back in the day.
Take a look at Luke Donald at the moment, on setup weight is biased to the left side and doesnt shift back during the swing. The traditional weight-shift has been shown to cause more problems than it solves.

I have moved to this method and ball striking and consistency has improved significantly. Any loss of distance has been more than made up for by a better, downward strike on the ball.

k.p.h

I suffer from this problem also but then again I suffer from just about every golf swing affliction their is :rolleyes:

I agree with the above post though. If it's coming to a head and trying to get the weight shift down why not just keep it on the left side. Maybe a look at the ol stck and tilt might be the way to go.

mr.mickels

GreeBo wrote: »

The latest views on this has changed significantly from what we were all taught back in the day.
Take a look at Luke Donald at the moment, on setup weight is biased to the left side and doesnt shift back during the swing. The traditional weight-shift has been shown to cause more problems than it solves.

That is just wrong, very wrong. Take a look at Luke Donald swinging you say, well I have included a slo-mo, he has a good weight transfer from the top of the swing which is clearly visible. A big hip movement on the downswing which can be seen by referencing his hip position with the stripes in the grass behind him, and his weight is very favouring his left side at impact, is all on his left side when he has completed the swing. And you pick Donald who is a moderately short player and just one pro, almost every top pro you could name who ever won a major in the last 30 years has a good weight transfer, all the big hitters have an agressive hip movement at the top of the swing, which is all pretty much coming from the teachings of Ben Hogan which is still very valid today, and Donald isn't a better ball-striker than Hogan. Woods was putting Hogans teachings into practice, his success would suggest your post is total nonsense, the "traditional" teaching as you call it is as valid today as ever. And as the clip shows, Donald is transferring his weight, he clearly moves back in the backswing with big hip movement on the downswing and his right heel is off the ground at impact, and its a very smooth movement, Donald has a great swing, but not one of the more powerful ones, and if he could hit it 10 yards further he would find himself more competitive in the majors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVW8DBHWXv8

LostPassword

mr.mickels wrote: »

He has a good weight transfer from the top of the swing which is clearly visible.

I think that Greebo's point is that he doesn't shift his weight much onto his right foot during the backswing. Of course he shifts his weight onto his left foot during the downswing. At least that's my non-expert understanding of what current swing theory is - maybe Greebo can correct me if I'm wrong.

k.p.h

Trying not be long winded about this Mr.Mickels. You are 100% correct in what you say about the past success of weight shift but if GreeBo had phrased his comment
"The traditional weight-shift has been shown to cause more problems than it solves for amateur golfers he would be right in that respect IMO.

I think this has led to the emergence of Stack & Tilt methods.

Currently their is a trend for professional golfers to be far more likely to keep their weight more forward or centered than in the past. Martin Kaymer world #3 is a great example of this. And Tiger Woods swing coach Sean Foley encourages a weight centered to forward method. Even the fact that Charlie Wi uses a S&T method shows that GreeBo's post was not total nonsense. Maybe Luck Donald was just a poor example.. Would not be surprised if GreeBo had heard Luke or some commentator say Luke set up with a bias to weight forward even though he dose shift back.

Anyway I'm of the opinion that if your having trouble with weight shift and not playing any good best to just keep weight forward and and play a little better.

k.p.h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY09j8mWZAk

Jesus studying computer science and nearly has a panic attack trying to figure how to post a youtube video

mr.mickels

LostPassword wrote: »

I think that Greebo's point is that he doesn't shift his weight much onto his right foot during the backswing.

Donalds weight is clearly on the inside of his right foot at the top of the backswing. It shouldn't be necessary to highlight the difference between an exaggerated sway and a correct weight transfer in a good rotation. Donalds swing is an example of a good weight transfer, it goes from slightly favouring left side at address to being mostly on the inside of right foot at top of backswing with left knee flexed. And the weight then transfers back to the left side quite agressively on the downswing.


Here is another angle of Donalds swing, very clear that his weight transfers to the right side in the backswing and agressively back to the left. The action is so smooth at full speed it might appear its done without a weight transfer but it is very clear in the slo-mo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS8z1BEB3vM

mr.mickels

k.p.h wrote: »

And Tiger Woods swing coach Sean Foley encourages a weight centered to forward method.

How is that working out for him? Is he getting better

k.p.h

mr.mickels wrote: »

How is that working out for him? Is he getting better

Cheap response Mr.Mickels

But you do agree that weight forward is a valid method also ?

mr.mickels

k.p.h wrote: »

Cheap response Mr.Mickels

But you do agree that weight forward is a valid method also ?

The response is valid, Woods isn't as good as he used to be, so hardly an example for proposing some "new" method. When he played well he was taught by Butch Harmon and Hank Haney, both teaching sound methods that are orthodox, the same methods that have been used for decades.

What do you mean by weight forward method? I am new back to the game, don't know what these new methods are supposed to be. Donald was mentioned earlier as some NEW method, and I looked at his swing, and it is a superb swing and a classical weight transfer, nothing new about it and a good example of a swing to emulate, he keeps his head very steady, has a good rotation with weight on right side in excellent position to attack the ball which he does with a lateral hip movement, the same movement Ben Hogan was teaching decades ago and all done very smoothly, very good swing. And for clarification, Hogan never suggested a sway on the backswing, he rotated on the backswing emphasising no head movement, then a lateral hip movement to start the downswing.

In Donalds swing his weight is not forward, if you mean forward of the balls of his feet. As for Tiger Woods swing I haven't paid attention, but if I do look at a slo-mo of his swing I expect to see again a very good weight transfer with his weight either centred on his feet or favouring slightly just back from centre, and that is how he did it when he was successful. I just don't think there are new methods just new generations trying to proclaim newly discovered methods that are the same methods that were being used since the 1950's.
It is not clear to me what you mean by forward.

Anyhow all of this is not exactly what the OP was asking for to assist to start transferring his weight. I gave one simple drill that works and might help him, another tells him not to do it and uses Donald as an example, well it would be worth the OP looking at Donald so that he will see how a good weight transfer does work and the lateral hip movement he was asking about can be clearly seen in the slo-mo of Donalds downswing.

If weight forward means that your weight is more towards your toes at address then NO I don't agree with that at all, it promotes a slice in most players. I personally would have my weight in the centre of my feet, certainly not forwards towards toes. However it is not back on the heels either, but I was never taught to have the weight back, just to have it centred.

GreeBo

mr.mickels wrote: »

That is just wrong, very wrong. Take a look at Luke Donald swinging you say, well I have included a slo-mo, he has a good weight transfer from the top of the swing which is clearly visible. A big hip movement on the downswing which can be seen by referencing his hip position with the stripes in the grass behind him, and his weight is very favouring his left side at impact, is all on his left side when he has completed the swing. And as the clip shows, Donald is transferring his weight, he clearly moves back in the backswing with big hip movement on the downswing and his right heel is off the ground at impact, and its a very smooth movement, Donald has a great swing, but not one of the more powerful ones, and if he could hit it 10 yards further he would find himself more competitive in the majors.

I think the highlighted sections of your post clearly highlight the point that I was making. I did not say that he doesnt shift his weight forward on the downswing, rather he doesnt make a full shift back. Traditional teachings and drills (such as being able to stand on your right leg for the backswing and left leg on the downswing) are no longer being promoted as the way to swing. The video of Kymer below is a great example. Also you are using Donalds driver swing in one video to prove something, when Donald clearly has a different swing for both driver and irons.

The forward method is to pre-set more of your weight to your left side, not onto your toes.

GreeBo

LostPassword wrote: »

I think that Greebo's point is that he doesn't shift his weight much onto his right foot during the backswing. Of course he shifts his weight onto his left foot during the downswing. At least that's my non-expert understanding of what current swing theory is - maybe Greebo can correct me if I'm wrong.

Exactly. Its the combination of shifting back and forward that has lots of potential for introducing problems.
Obviously if you are hitting 1,000 balls a day for most of your life most of these issues can be eliminated but for every scenario I can think of less moving parts in a system gives you a more reliable system.

oceanfish2008

GreeBo wrote: »

Exactly. Its the combination of shifting back and forward that has lots of potential for introducing problems.
Obviously if you are hitting 1,000 balls a day for most of your life most of these issues can be eliminated but for every scenario I can think of less moving parts in a system gives you a more reliable system.

I think the point Greebo makes about less moving parts in a system is the most important. I've always felt that as my swing improved, the more subtle the weight shift the better. At times it felt that as I generated more width in my swing with practice that the weight shift happened naturally. You really start to notice it on the downswing, as you reach the bottom of your swing the momentum carries you onto your left side in a smooth balanced movement.

mr.mickels

GreeBo wrote: »

I think the highlighted sections of your post clearly highlight the point that I was making. I did not say that he doesnt shift his weight forward on the downswing, rather he doesnt make a full shift back. Traditional teachings and drills (such as being able to stand on your right leg for the backswing and left leg on the downswing) are no longer being promoted as the way to swing. The video of Kymer below is a great example. Also you are using Donalds driver swing in one video to prove something, when Donald clearly has a different swing for both driver and irons.

The forward method is to pre-set more of your weight to your left side, not onto your toes.

As far as I see Donalds makes a full backswing, the same as I was taught 20 years ago, many amateurs misunderstood the difference between a weight transfer and a sway. As I already mentioned I was never thought to sway, was told it was wrong, but to make a weight transfer just as Donald does. And it is fairly ridiculous of you to exclude Donalds driver swing. However way you want to misinterpret it, Donald shifts his weight to his right foot and agressively back to his left via an aggressive hip movement, exactly as Ben Hogan was teaching in his day, and most modern theory is based on Hogans teachings.

strokes1

just grip it and rip it?

mr.mickels

I could add that there is nothing NEW about presetting weight on the left foot, Snead and Hogan were teaching that decades ago. Take a look at their swings and you will see little difference with what todays tour pros are doing. Golf swing theory wasn't invented in the Tiger Woods/SkySports era.
Look up Snead and Hogans forward press, which was presetting the weight on the left side before making the swing.

k.p.h

@ Mr.Mickels

I mean weight towards leading side. While you are right about what you say about Hogans weight shift effectiveness etc. Their is a current trend for a more centered or leading side biased setup with less weight shift. Their is also a current trend for a Stack and Tilt method with no weight shift (stay on leading side completely).

I am not advocating any of these methods as I think different things work for different people but I will say the Stack & Tilt method dose lead to a simpler swing and better ball striking. While it has it's restrictions the S&T method might has some use for let's say someone who has been playing a few years and not seen any improvement or has a limited amount of practice time.

I would just like to ass that Hogans Modern Fundamentals is not modern anymore, while pretty much everything in the book is someway relevant I'm pretty sure if Hogan was alive today he would be appending a few chapters.

Since this was ignored the last time I put it up I'l go again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY09j8mWZAk

And here is the stack and tilt poster boy Charlie Wi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSgy5A7xlqs

k.p.h

strokes1 wrote: »

just grip it and rip it?

With this method all the value is got out of the green fee
By playing twice as many shots as everyone else
Soon balanced out by paying for lost golf balls

GreeBo

mr.mickels wrote: »

I could add that there is nothing NEW about presetting weight on the left foot, Snead and Hogan were teaching that decades ago. Take a look at their swings and you will see little difference with what todays tour pros are doing. Golf swing theory wasn't invented in the Tiger Woods/SkySports era.
Look up Snead and Hogans forward press, which was presetting the weight on the left side before making the swing.

Isnt the forward press more to do with leaning the shaft forward (delofting) at address rather than anything to do with weight?

mr.mickels wrote: »

As far as I see Donalds makes a full backswing, the same as I was taught 20 years ago, many amateurs misunderstood the difference between a weight transfer and a sway. As I already mentioned I was never thought to sway, was told it was wrong, but to make a weight transfer just as Donald does. And it is fairly ridiculous of you to exclude Donalds driver swing. However way you want to misinterpret it, Donald shifts his weight to his right foot and agressively back to his left via an aggressive hip movement, exactly as Ben Hogan was teaching in his day, and most modern theory is based on Hogans teachings.

I never said that he wasnt making a full backswing?
I also completely disagree that you can see any weight shift in those videos of Donald. He makes a shoulder turn and keeps (and increases with the iron shot) the bend in his left knee, neither of which necessarily implies a weight shift to the left and in fact is exactly what you see when someone is keeping their weight forward on the backswing.

oceanfish2008

I always thought the weight should shift to the inside of your right foot on the backswing. Surely thats very difficult to see in a video, no matter how slow-mo?

mr.mickels

GreeBo wrote: »

Isnt the forward press more to do with leaning the shaft forward (delofting) at address rather than anything to do with weight?

No, the forward press was to get the weight onto the left side before rotating the backswing, shifting most of it back to the right foot without swaying and keeping the head steady, Hogan emphasised not swaying, in fact he said he used to imagine a glass disc around his neck to stop him swaying. Gary Player did the forward press with his right knee, it was common practice back then. Snead also did it with his right knee, moved his weight to the left side before making the swing, Snead was very long, a 300 yarder off the tee back in the days of the old equipment, and I think he is still the oldest player to win on the PGA tour, he obviously was doing something right, golf theory wasn't invented or improved upon in recent times.

The backswing is a rotation back, so the right hip doesn't move laterally to the right, unlike the downswing where the left hip moves laterally to the left, and this is essentialy the so called stack and tilt method, just another way of teaching Hogans methods but trying to make it sound new.
Donald is rotating his shoulders 90 degrees, and his right hip turns a little back behind him as his left knee flexes, he doesn't move to the right, so maybe this is why you are imagining his weight isn't on his right foot, but it is for sure that the weight is strongly favouring his right foot at this point, the inside of his right foot, before he makes the aggressive lateral hip movement that Hogan popularised over 50 years ago. Donalds swing is a good example of the principles of Hogan being put into practice. And Hogan didn't entirely invent those principles either, but he popularised them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0

Here is a clip of the man who popularised modern golf theory, and the so-called new methods haven't been updated since, as sound teaching will always be sound teaching. Watch Hogans swing at the end of the clip, his head doesn't move, his right hip doesn't move to the right, he doesn't sway, but he rotates, his right hip rotates behind him, the weight is very much on his right foot, even if it doesn't appear to be, and he starts the downswing with the aggresive lateral hip movement. You see there is nothing new in Donalds methods. And for those using Kaymer as an example of a "new" theory, that is just nonsense, you can chose one player as an exception to the rule, he is not the norm, I could just have easily posted Bubba Watson or Rickie Fowler and said they are now the "new" method of swinging, would mean as much as saying Kaymer is the new method. There will always be individuals with their own methods, that doesn't mean the exceptions should be taught as a rule, and none of them will help the OP to answer his problem. In fact it is most likely the average amateur who attempts to swing like Kaymer will end up with a reverse pivot and lose loads of their potential power. We could take other unique swings like Furyk, Darcy, Couples and say these are the "new" methods, but that would be nonsense. I would be quite sure that if we went through the swings of the 23 other players who were at the Ryder Cup with Kaymer and the 2 captains we would see a good weight transfer with weight on the right foot at top of backswing.

It would be more appropriate to highlight more orthodox swings and why not have a look at perhaps the best ball striker in the world at the moment, Rory McIlroy, another fine example of an excellent rotation without a sway in the backswing, with weight on right foot and a decent weight transfer on the downswing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhUkNy9eHfI

Tones69

Nice swing there from rory

GreeBo

Im getting a little tired of the "nonsense" type remarks, attack the post not the poster or take a break on this forum please.


What I am trying to say is that players of the last 20 years (lets call it Faldo's generation) could easily lift their left leg off the ground during the backswing, same goes for the right leg on the downswing.
Its easy to find clips of players who have lots of movement of the left foot on the backswing, some taking the heel right off the ground.

Donald et all do not and could not do this, they would fall over as more than 50% of their weight remains on their left side.

The rest of your post isnt actually contradicting what anyone has said here
"back swing is a rotation" "not a sway" etc, etc

LostPassword

I don't think anybody has ever advocated a hip sway on the backswing, so that's a bit of a red-herring. Also, Hogan didn't mention hip sway in connection with the pane of glass on the shoulders - that was all about the swing plane. The main point of difference over the ages is how much of the weight is on the inside of the right foot as the backswing reaches the top - it used to be the case that this was something like 95%, it is now the case that many if not most teachers advocate something less than this - with some advocating less than 50%. What I don't think is contraversial is that something like 95-100% should be on the leading (left for a right-hander) foot in the finish).

As far as I understand it, the difference in teaching basically comes down to the question of how much, if at all, the head should move back (away from the target not over the heels) during the backswing.

mr.mickels

GreeBo wrote: »

Donald.......more than 50% of their weight remains on their left side.

That is wrong AGAIN, he has alot more weight on his right foot at the top of the swing in the 2 clips I showed, why do you persist with misinterpreting his swing. Remind me to never ask you for a golf lesson.

Luke Donald from behind, in this clip it is even more obvious that his weight strongly favours the right side before starting the downswing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbskozAvD4g

mr.mickels

Luke Donald hitting a 6 iron, pause the clip on the 16 to 17 second mark, very obvious his weight favours his right foot, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAK7NPnxXoU

This clip has closeups of Donald that doesn't even show his lower body, and it is very clear his weight is favouring his right side at the top of the backswing. Again pause the clip at the 16 to 18 second mark, you can see Donald in the close up of his upperbody it is very obvious he has transfered most weight to right foot. He hits drives and it is very clear to my eyes that his weight is on right foot before starting downswing. Pause the clip at 50 seconds, and this time Greenbo just admit you were mistaken about Donalds weight transfer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjgIkxgyg7g

mr.mickels

LostPassword wrote: »

I don't think anybody has ever advocated a hip sway on the backswing, so that's a bit of a red-herring.

The rotation of the golf swing is misinterpreted as a sway by millions of golfers the world over. I am assuming anyone who looks at a slo-mo of Donald swinging and doesn't realise he has transfered his weight to his right foot is looking for an obvious sway to the right, I must assume the misunderstanding is because the weight transfer can't be detected by a move to the right, because it isn't a move to the right, its a rotation behind.

And you have misunderstood Hogan and the glass. The glass was around his neck so his head wouldn't move back at all on either the backswing or the downswing. It is others who have misinterpreted his intentions. Hogans hip moves back behind him, not back away from the target, huge difference. Way back over 50 years ago Hogan was teaching ZERO head movement, so that is not some new theory being invented recently.

mr.mickels

A good full turn over the right leg, according to the commentator. Pause the clip anywhere from 12 to 20 seconds, it is very obvious with those white trousers that the weight is very favouring his right side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcyvjzEorMk

An excellent swing example to study, weight almost all (nearly 100%) is clearly on right foot here before he makes a very smooth but aggressive weight transfer back to the left side, Donald has great balance.

LostPassword

mr.mickels wrote: »

The rotation of the golf swing is misinterpreted as a sway by millions of golfers the world over. I am assuming anyone who looks at a slo-mo of Donald swinging and doesn't realise he has transfered his weight to his right foot is looking for an obvious sway to the right, I must assume the misunderstanding is because the weight transfer can't be detected by a move to the right, because it isn't a move to the right, its a rotation behind.

The hitting of the ball is also misinterpreted as hitting thin air or the ground by millions of golfers the world over, but nobody actually advocates missing the ball

And if I'm minsinterpreting Hogan, so was he. I have the chapter "the first part of the swing" of his book open on my lap and not a single mention of hip sway - it is entirely about the plane: "perhaps the best way to visualize what the plane is to imagine an immense pane of glass ...."

GreeBo

mr.mickels wrote: »

A good full turn over the right leg, according to the commentator. Pause the clip anywhere from 12 to 20 seconds, it is very obvious with those white trousers that the weight is very favouring his right side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcyvjzEorMk

An excellent swing example to study, weight almost all (nearly 100%) is clearly on right foot here before he makes a very smooth but aggressive weight transfer back to the left side, Donald has great balance.

Using clips from 09 and 07 to disprove my comment that there has been a change in direction of modern teachings?

http://www.free-golf-lessons.com/golf-swing-research.html
http://golfstruck.com/2011/03/11/video_tips/weight-shift-2/

k.p.h

Oh my oh my... I with GreeBo here in the sense that I was only saying their has been a change in direction of modern teachings (as he put it) too. TBH honest thats not really up for debate if your keeping up the current swing teaching of some of the top instructors around today.

Mr.Mickels you are referencing Luck Donald as a good example of the traditional method to show that it's the best way.(Something which I was never arguing against as I believe it is). but you are also dismissing my examples of some of the new methods which are 100% valid.

Anyway who cares what the pro's are using these new methods have help thousand of amateur golfers around the world improve and they are quite popular. Pretty much proving that they are not a flash in the pan and will be around for quite a while. Their are now golf schools instructors specifically teaching these methods.

http://stackandtiltgolfswing.com/instructors/

http://www.wikihow.com/Learn-the-Stack-and-Tilt-Golf-Swing

P.s lets not use Luke Donald as an example of this again as he uses less weight **** not none at all. Kaymer is a better example of even less and Charlie Wi is a good example of no weight shift.

BigChap1759

I think it's a little all encompassing to say that modern teachings have moved away - yes there is the S&T school of thought and it's proponents but realistically, if you look at both tour players and coaches, the vast majority are still teaching more traditional methods.

Oh, I do disagree when you say the clip of Luke has almost 100% weight on his right side - I'd say 60/70% at most......

k.p.h

BigChap1759 wrote: »

yes there is the S&T school of thought and it's proponents but realistically, if you look at both tour players and coaches, the vast majority are still teaching more traditional methods..

Traditional swing is more capable and probably the bast way to play the game so i think most pro's will continue swinging like this(it allows for better shot shaping and distance). Where I see S&T being useful is among the amateur ranks.

Lets say someone who takes up the game middle aged or retired. Probability is they are never going to make a traditional swing effectively so a S&T method might be the best way for them to approach the game. Easier and less athletic and better results quicker (still needs a lot of practice to master) .

TBH honest I am playing 2 year with 120+ rounds both years with range at least once a week all year round and I can't make the traditional swing work for me. A golf swing needs constant attention as it is so complex. Simple in principle but little changes and bad habits always sneak in.

I think young people should always be thought the traditional swing and giving a chance to master it but S&T is very useful and the fact that some pro's actually use is definitely a sign that it can be used at the top level.

Suppose it's just another option really.

mr.mickels

LostPassword wrote: »

The hitting of the ball is also misinterpreted as hitting thin air or the ground by millions of golfers the world over, but nobody actually advocates missing the ball

And if I'm minsinterpreting Hogan, so was he. I have the chapter "the first part of the swing" of his book open on my lap and not a single mention of hip sway - it is entirely about the plane: "perhaps the best way to visualize what the plane is to imagine an immense pane of glass ...."

Why did you expect him to mention hip sway? I have said Hogan did NOT advocate a sway on the backswing.
As for the glass, we are talking about 2 different things, so you misunderstood what I was refering. Hogan used to say he would imagine a disc of glass around his neck, preventing his head moving either on the backswing or downswing until after he hit the ball, this is what I was refering with the glass. Hogan was saying not to move the head or the hips to the right away from the target. The vast majority of amatuers either have a reverse pivot or they sway. WHen a player sways it is more obvious that his weight is on his right leg. However a player can rotate without sway, have all his weight on his right leg, but it isn't so obvious in to the observer, this is the only reason I can imagine anyone would suggest Donald has more weight on his left leg at the top of the backswing, it is very obvious that its favouring his right.

mr.mickels

In the words of Luke Donald himself when discussing his swing, from his own blog

"I tend to get a little bit too much knee-flex in my set-up and I’m getting that a little bit more ‘dialed-in’. This allows me to turn and really post up on my right hip"

Really post up on his right hip means moving all his weight onto his right side, the right leg supporting the right hip takes his weight.

mr.mickels

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Oh, I do disagree when you say the clip of Luke has almost 100% weight on his right side - I'd say 60/70% at most......

Here is Donald from behind, from this clip it is even clearer, and it appears to me that his weight on right side is much closer to 100% than 60-70% and in Lukes own words he is really posting up on his right side, this suggests he wants to get as close to 100% as he can. Just because his left foot is in contact with the grass doesn't mean his weight is on it. Pause the clip at 9 seconds. Whatever about exact percentages it is certainly way more than 50%, and more than 70%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIangIdBgFM