Should Iarnrod Eireann consider "premier class" on Dart and local commuter services?.

Run_to_da_hills

Travel across the UK or Europe and you will find a "first class"section on nearly all commuter trains, In Paris one will even find it on the metro.

A portion of the header carriage could be sealed off for those that like their peace and comfort without tripping over bicycles, prams or listening to screaming babies and horrible intercom announcements.

The seats on the Japanese Toyku units are rather hard, those could be replaced with a softer more comfortable compound in this section.

Even if the passenger numbers are low, Iarnrod Eireann could have the potential to earn extra revenue from fines issued to those that are unauthorized to travel in this class.

A special secure and clean waiting room with toilets, power points and wifi could also be provided at each station allowing entrance to those only holding a first class validated smart card.

smackyB

Dude, April 1st was nearly 2 months ago now.

Oh wait, you're serious?

That's possibly the craziest, most unworkable idea I've ever read on this board (and by god there's been a lot).

KungPao

Premier class for maybe a 30 minute trip?

Nah.

If someone is so snooty that they can't handle being in the presence of the great unwashed for half an hour, perhaps public transport isn't for them.

Max Power1

IE is too expensive as it is. If they increase prices (to allow a "premium" price") people will abandon the trains, more than they already have.

Run_to_da_hills

KungPao wrote: »

Premier class for maybe a 30 minute trip?

Nah.

If someone is so snooty that they can't handle being in the presence of the great unwashed for half an hour, perhaps public transport isn't for them.

A lot of people don't take the train because they can't have a piss or sit in comfort waiting for it. Tara St, Booterstown and Blackrock are examples of nasty cold wind swept stations particularly in winter time.

For those that can remember the pre dartdays, nearly all stations had a jacks and waiting room, these were removed with the introduction of the dart.

Lapin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"first class",

In Paris one will even find it on the metro.

When was the last time you traveled on the Paris Metro?

They got rid of First Class years ago.

KungPao

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A lot of people don't take the train because they can't have a piss or sit in comfort waiting for it. Tara St, Booterstown and Blackrock are examples of nasty cold wind swept stations particularly in winter time.

For those that can remember the pre dartdays, nearly all stations had a jacks and waiting room, these were removed with the introduction of the dart.

I think all passengers should have shelter and access to toilets while waiting for a train, not just an elite few.

But if we have a 1st class on the Dart, what next? Dublin Bus?

Only people who pay a premium price can sit down stairs, on comfortable seats with complementary newspapers while the poor unfortunates have to go upstairs and sit on the floor.

We should be trying to get rid of elitism and segregation IMO, and not be encouraging it.

(Sorry for the political slant, but this kind of thing irritates me)

westtip

Well this might be a jolly good idea - in particular on trains from Limerick to Galway on the WRC, by all accounts most of the users are social welfare recipients or pensioners with dribbling noses on freebie journies so who wants to travel in their presence? It would be a spiffing idea to have a first class on this service - afterall you are on the train for two hours so the morning The dining service, obviously only available to first class, could serve a full breakfast of smoked kippers and a glass of bubbly, luncheon trains could serve smoked salmon quiche with musdadet, afternoon trains scones with cream and tea, and the evening service a splendid evening meal served by gentleman wearing a tie who calls you sir and offers you the wine list with recommendation to take the '76 burgundy followed by the 63 port with Stilton. What a wonderful way to admire the empty platforms on the WRC as you trundle from halting to halting.

Jolly good idea OP, would bring a bit of class to train travel in Ireland.....err please read this post before responding...

culabula

westtip wrote: »

Well this might be a jolly good idea - in particular on trains from Limerick to Galway on the WRC, by all accounts most of the users are social welfare recipients or pensioners with dribbling noses on freebie journies so who wants to travel in their presence? It would be a spiffing idea to have a first class on this service - afterall you are on the train for two hours so the morning The dining service, obviously only available to first class, could serve a full breakfast of smoked kippers and a glass of bubbly, luncheon trains could serve smoked salmon quiche with musdadet, afternoon trains scones with cream and tea, and the evening service a splendid evening meal served by gentleman wearing a tie who calls you sir and offers you the wine list with recommendation to take the '76 burgundy followed by the 63 port with Stilton. What a wonderful way to admire the empty platforms on the WRC as you trundle from halting to halting.

Jolly good idea OP, would bring a bit of class to train travel in Ireland.....err please read this post before responding...

Oh come on! A Burgundy from '76 would be well past drinking! :-)

As for the Muscadet, it better be from St Fiacre.

penexpers

Lapin wrote: »

When was the last time you traveled on the Paris Metro?

They got rid of First Class years ago.

They still have first class on the RER I believe.

bmaxi

I.E. can't even control reserved seats on Inter Cities, can you imagine trying to impose first class on a train to Maynooth at 5.30pm.
The first requirement would be for staff at I.E. to give a fcuk, the second would be for management at I.E. to give a fcuk that staff didn't give a fcuk. Can you see where I'm going with this?

foggy_lad

smackyB wrote: »

Dude, April 1st was nearly 2 months ago now.

Oh wait, you're serious?

That's possibly the craziest, most unworkable idea I've ever read on this board (and by god there's been a lot).

It just might be adopted with Irish Rail management at the helm.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A lot of people don't take the train because they can't have a piss or sit in comfort waiting for it. Tara St, Booterstown and Blackrock are examples of nasty cold wind swept stations particularly in winter time.

for those who dont have a working toilet at home or an umbrella nor the means to purchase one i would think p!ssing on the platform would not be a problem for them and they might be used to the cold from sitting in their house without a loo!

For those that can remember the pre dartdays, nearly all stations had a jacks and waiting room, these were removed with the introduction of the dart.

These were removed with the introduction of drugs to the general population of dublin and the crimewave that followed. And it was also deemed unnecessary to have toilets available at all stations for such short journeys! If you are silly enough to leave the house without going then you might have at most an hour to wait to get to the nearest toilet on the dart/commuter system which should not be an issue for the majority! Irish Rail can only do so much for us, we cant expect to have our hands held and our arses wiped every step of the journey!

Lapin

penexpers wrote: »

They still have first class on the RER I believe.

I don't know about the RER. Haven't been on it for years myself.

But if it does still have a first class car, I imagine it comes complete with armed guards and bullet proof windows to protect passengers when travelling through the dreaded Banlieue.

Cookie_Monster

Ah first class on the railways...

a piece of cloth on top of your headrest and possibly a slightly quieter carriage.

totally worth it :rolleyes:

BrianD

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Travel across the UK or Europe and you will find a "first class"section on nearly all commuter trains, In Paris one will even find it on the metro.

A portion of the header carriage could be sealed off for those that like their peace and comfort without tripping over bicycles, prams or listening to screaming babies and horrible intercom announcements.

The seats on the Japanese Toyku units are rather hard, those could be replaced with a softer more comfortable compound in this section.

Even if the passenger numbers are low, Iarnrod Eireann could have the potential to earn extra revenue from fines issued to those that are unauthorized to travel in this class.

A special secure and clean waiting room with toilets, power points and wifi could also be provided at each station allowing entrance to those only holding a first class validated smart card.

You never mentioned the cost for the first class passenger.

Introduce it, but treble the fare for First class passengers.

In reality, most people using public transport just get on and go. They don't need wifi, loos or cushy seats.

If I had my way, DARTS and commuter rail would have their seats stripped out and less seats put in and more standing room. The seat lay out of DARTS is particularly inefficient.

City/urban transport works best if it's single class.

Zebra3

A simple thing to do would be block a couple of carraiges of each train from receiving mobile phone signals.

Cookie_Monster

Zebra3 wrote: »

A simple thing to do would be block a couple of carraiges of each train from receiving mobile phone signals.

can't legally do that due to emergency situation which may arise

also the point on the DART seating is a valid one, change it to tube style with seats along the wall facing in would immediately improve capacity and make people more likely to move down the isle as there is more space to move about.

Mint Sauce

Just have a quiet carriage like they do on some of the UK train providers.

Mobile phones on silent, only use them in the vestibles. No music leaking from your headphones, and keep conversations to a whisper, shouldn't be to hard to provide on a half empty intercity train, inforcing it might be another mater though.

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

can't legally do that due to emergency situation which may arise

That is the purpose of the emergency alarm cord on a train. People have survived for well over a century on trains without mobile phones.

People on mobile phones that can't control their voice are very annoying. The quiet zone on regional trains are bit of a joke and should have GSM frequency blockage.

corktina

would only work on outer suburban workings of considerable length...inner sub such as the dart have a priority to get as many on board as possible in the peak ...seated or standing I should have thought.

penexpers

Lapin wrote: »

I don't know about the RER. Haven't been on it for years myself.

But if it does still have a first class car, I imagine it comes complete with armed guards and bullet proof windows to protect passengers when travelling through the dreaded Banlieue.

Hah not quite. I think it's to do with the fact that a large portion of the RER is operated by SNCF and not RATP.

GTE

smackyB wrote: »

Dude, April 1st was nearly 2 months ago now.

Oh wait, you're serious?

That's possibly the craziest, most unworkable idea I've ever read on this board (and by god there's been a lot).

Pretty much. I would not expect or want to pay for first class on a commuter route. Add to that the commuter routes need to fit as many people as possible. Wi Fi would be nice if its not already there on commuter routes, well all routes.

I find the idea of blocking mobile phones very silly. It is the wrong way to go about the problem. If they make noise tell them to shut up (politely ) and have the staff trained to clamp down on this. All blocking signal would do is cause frustration and it wont get rid of or help to get rid the inconsiderate nature of people. From the safety point of view I find it too simplistic to rely on the emergency cord in the event of a crash. It sound similar to forget about the window hammer, the crash with brake those.

EDIT:
I just realised I said have the staff trained but that suits intercity travel more so I guess. Twill be up to us to tell people to whisht on the commuter trains.

Transportuser09

I dont think having 1st class on commuter trains would work - aside from demand platform capacity is a maximum of eight vehicles on the Dublin area network. By having first class carriages you would be taking up part of this capacity yet carrying less passengers per train. Overcrowding is bad enough on some Northern line services as it is without adding to the problem.

Zebra3

bbk wrote: »

I find the idea of blocking mobile phones very silly. It is the wrong way to go about the problem. If they make noise tell them to shut up (politely ) and have the staff trained to clamp down on this.

What staff?

There's nothing silly about the idea. It works fine elsewhere. You wanna talk on your phone, don't get into the carraige that's clearly marked with a no mobiles logo.

What's wrong with offering people choice?

L1011

Zebra3 wrote: »

What staff?

There's nothing silly about the idea. It works fine elsewhere. You wanna talk on your phone, don't get into the carraige that's clearly marked with a no mobiles logo.

What's wrong with offering people choice?

Those carriages in other countries don't have blockers, because a: they're not legal anywhere and b: they're not that short distance

and c: they'd quite likely mess with GSM-R also unless they had extremely clean outputs

Quiet cars generally work on self-enforcement, e.g. other passengers threatening those who make noise.

parsi

Over here we prefer to tut-tut quietly, frown and then go onto boards to complain. Faced with a scarred-face scumbag on a social-welfare pass I'd do the same.

SeanW

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A portion of the header carriage could be sealed off for those that like their peace and comfort without tripping over bicycles, prams or listening to screaming babies and horrible intercom announcements.
...
Even if the passenger numbers are low, Iarnrod Eireann could have the potential to earn extra revenue from fines issued to those that are unauthorized to travel in this class.
...
A special secure and clean waiting room with toilets, power points and wifi could also be provided at each station allowing entrance to those only holding a first class validated smart card.

Honestly, I don't know where to start :mad:

1. There is no such thing as a "header carriage" DART and commuter trains are run by sets of Multiple units, there is not necessarily any guaranteed order of sets. (E.g. 2 sets of 4 carriages like the 29000s or 4 sets of 8100 pairs on the DART). Your plan would require a strict ordering of trainsets which would be inefficient in practice.
2. All of it would cost a small fortune to implement - in case you haven't noticed money doesn't exactly grow on trees.
3. Much of the IE network is totally oversubscribed in the peak hours, DART, Maynooth and Drogheda commuter, as well as parts of the Luas. On these peak services one is lucky to squash in and get standing room.
4. Fines. A last resort for dealing with scumbags and fare dodgers. If IE started collecting masses of fines from ordinary decent, otherwise fare paying passengers, let's just say the resulting mess of peeved passengers (many of whom might avoid the railway in future) would not exactly constitute a PR coup for Irish Rail.
5. Irish Rail doesn't know how to do 1st Class. Just look at the pathetic joke that is 1st Class (oh sorry "Premier") on the 22000 railcars.

L1011

parsi wrote: »

Over here we prefer to tut-tut quietly, frown and then go onto boards to complain. Faced with a scarred-face scumbag on a social-welfare pass I'd do the same.

I've had a seating area on the Ulysses applaud me for telling two Polish lads to stop playing ringtones on their phones; I'll be willing to try for a repeat performance on a few trains.

westtip

culabula wrote: »

Oh come on! A Burgundy from '76 would be well past drinking! :-)

As for the Muscadet, it better be from St Fiacre.

Yes indeed I was dreaming a bit there about the .76 burgundy it was by all accounts a good year - the 63 Port though was the Port of the century and still lasts up well, in fact it goes for astronomical sums.

Of course we should have a first class on our commuter trains, I can't understand why our senior civil servants haven't insisted on it - they are afterall the only ones who could possibly afford to pay for it.

GTE

Zebra3 wrote: »

What staff?

What's wrong with offering people choice?

Read my post again. It was edited 15 mins before you posted. Unless there are no staff floating about intercity trains then I stand by my point.

There is nothing wrong as long as its appropriate to the situation.

Del2005

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That is the purpose of the emergency alarm cord on a train. People have survived for well over a century on trains without mobile phones.

People on mobile phones that can't control their voice are very annoying. The quiet zone on regional trains are bit of a joke and should have GSM frequency blockage.

Not all emergencies are on the train, people need to receive emergency calls. Phone blockers aren't good enough to only block one carriage of a train, they block the carriages around it and any house the train passes. There's a reason why signal blockers are illegal, but if they made carriages RF proof they wouldn't need any blockers and aren't breaking any law

westtip wrote: »

Yes indeed I was dreaming a bit there about the .76 burgundy it was by all accounts a good year - the 63 Port though was the Port of the century and still lasts up well, in fact it goes for astronomical sums.

Of course we should have a first class on our commuter trains, I can't understand why our senior civil servants haven't insisted on it - they are afterall the only ones who could possibly afford to pay for it.

Free parking!

Judgement Day

IE should introduce 1st class on the Dublin/Rosslare route before worrying about doing it on the DART or commuter services. Anyway, like everything else they turn their hand to it would end in failure, so better not to do it in the first place.

BenShermin

I think this is actually an intresting concept.

For a start I'd forget the 1st class lounges for every station, since there's a Dart or commuter train on average about every 20 minutes this is not needed. However I like the idea of lounges in stations in the Central Business District, like Pearse, Tara and Connolly or even Heuston. These could be a haven for business passengers to grab a cuppa, access E-mails and have a read of the papers before going into work and also to waste some time in the evenings waiting for the rush hour to die down.

Such facilities have proved very successful in simular intercity stations in the UK. Since Ireland doesn't have a huge 1st class intercity following, giving commuter passengers access at a premium to these lounges would make perfect sense.


While nobody is questioning the stupidity of 1st class on a tube or metro type train, Ireland is a bit different in that there's a huge amount of customers using Ireland's commuter trains for long distance commuting, ie. Maynooth to Dún Laoghaire, Greystones to Connolly, Balbriggan to Lansdowne. These types of journeys would be on par with long distance services into and out of London, most of which would have a small 1st class section and toilets. Even though the trains are crowded the concept of 1st class is enforced and it does work.

For that reason I think it could actually work. Throw in a few freebies like your kids travel free on a Sunday or free car parking and I think people would use the service. Of course something like this would be a pipedream until the hurdle of IÉs incompetence is jumped:rolleyes:!

Capt'n Midnight

let's do it ryanair style where people with priority tickets get a 20m head start in the rush for seats

westtip

BenShermin wrote: »

I think this is actually an intresting concept.

. However I like the idea of lounges in stations in the Central Business District, like Pearse, Tara and Connolly or even Heuston. These could be a haven for business passengers to grab a cuppa, access E-mails and have a read of the papers before going into work and also to waste some time in the evenings waiting for the rush hour to die down.

:!

doesn't anyone just go for a pint with their workmates after work these days before jumping on the train? do we really need another set of cubicles to surf the bloody internet? Its about as interesting a concept as watching paint dry and certainly not as interesting as watching a pint settle on the bar, talking to the barman, and having an unwind with your workmates.

positron

irish-stew wrote: »

Just have a quiet carriage like they do on some of the UK train providers.

Mobile phones on silent, only use them in the vestibles. No music leaking from your headphones, and keep conversations to a whisper, shouldn't be to hard to provide on a half empty intercity train, inforcing it might be another mater though.

This is a great idea.

BenShermin

westtip wrote: »

doesn't anyone just go for a pint with their workmates after work these days before jumping on the train? do we really need another set of cubicles to surf the bloody internet? Its about as interesting a concept as watching paint dry and certainly not as interesting as watching a pint settle on the bar, talking to the barman, and having an unwind with your workmates.

Hmm, perhaps business workers should skip the 1st class lounge in the mornings also and pop to an early house before work also to have a few pints:rolleyes:.

I'm sure there's very few workers in the country who don't enjoy a few after work pints a few times a week, but is it feasible five nights a week, I'd think not, thats where the lounge would come in handy.

Judgement Day

I'm sure passengers on Connolly/Rosslare services would be happy with a simple, clean waiting room on platform 5 at Connolly - with seats - instead of the bare, windswept platform. Rosslare line passengers cannot linger in the relative comfort of the Oslo Bar etc as seats on their pathetic little three coach train are at a premium and the early bird etc.etc....:rolleyes: