The position of President of Ireland

Knight990

Hey lads,

Exactly as it says on the tin. I've seen a few folks here who are of the opinion that the President is a bit of a redundant position in Ireland, and it should be done away with, etc.

I think it raises a very good topic that could be discussed.

• What, if any, office would be made to replace it?
• Who would hold the position of Head of State if the position was done away with?
• How would a new position be decided, elected and what powers would/should this position have?

Let me know what you think. Alternatively, if you think the position of President should stay:

• Why should we keep the position?
• What, if any, changes would you make to it in its current form?

Killer Pigeon

Knight990 wrote: »

Hey lads,

Exactly as it says on the tin. I've seen a few folks here who are of the opinion that the President is a bit of a redundant position in Ireland, and it should be done away with, etc.

I think it raises a very good topic that could be discussed.

• What, if any, office would be made to replace it?
• Who would hold the position of Head of State if the position was done away with?
• How would a new position be decided, elected and what powers would/should this position have?

It should be replaced with a monarchy. The Queen of Ireland will be David Norris.

Knight990 wrote: »

Let me know what you think. Alternatively, if you think the position of President should stay:

• Why should we keep the position?
• What, if any, changes would you make to it in its current form?

On a more serious note, I think that the office of President should be maintained. I don't like the idea of the head of state and the head of government holding the same position. However, I think that elections for the President should be held every 4 years (two years after a general election on average) not every 7/8 year. The President should have the responsibility of defending the constitution and human rights and well as being a cultural patron.

I was very impressed by how our current President represented the country on the British Queen's visit; this is one of the reason why I'd like to see the mandate of the Presidential office maintained as the official representative of the people of Ireland.

later12

The role could be replaced with a reformed Council of State, who already advise the President on these issues in an unpaid capacity.

sdanseo

The office of president should be maintained, it's a great institution and proved its worth ten times over this week alone. It's an office that is ceremonial, yes, and maybe as such seen in these times as wasteful, but think of all the good that has come of it. Mary Robinson, and Mary McAleese, are two of our most highly-regarded public servants in living memory. They do enormous good for the country, through charity work, initiatives with business, the Your Country Your Call scheme, etc etc. All this is much the same way as the monarchy works over yonder..a feel-good factor amid all the crap. The list goes on.

It's nice to have an office like this which is almost totally impartial of the Dáil and Seanad and concentrates on making the country a better place without the bittereness of political scraps. Yes, it's a figurehead role, but I believe a country needs a proper ceremonial figurehead.

As an aside, I'm firmly of the belief that the maximum Salary for any public servant should be capped at €200,000 and this would apply to the President too. Not because I believe that cutting public salaries will get us out of recession, but because paying some of these people half a million quid is just simply wasteful. Different debate though so I won't take it too far OT.

Batsy

Just bring back the monarchy again.

With all those adoring crowds in Ireland anxious to meet the Queen - only a few of whom managing to achieve their wish - it seems like the Irish people would love Elizabeth II to be their Head of State. Instead of the Republic of Ireland you'd be the Kingdom of Ireland.

So, why not? How about Ireland because the 17th country of which she is Head of State?

Killer Pigeon

Batsy wrote: »

Just bring back the monarchy again.

With all those adoring crowds in Ireland anxious to meet the Queen - only a few of whom managing to achieve their wish - it seems like the Irish people would love Elizabeth II to be their Head of State. Instead of the Republic of Ireland you'd be the Kingdom of Ireland.

So, why not? How about Ireland because the 17th country of which she is Head of State?

You're sounding like a Sinn Féiner with your dual monarchist ideas.

later12

Batsy wrote: »

Just Just bring back the monarchy again.

Actually, on the day that is in it, and i hope the moderators will overlook an ever so slight derailment, I would just like to bring up something that not a lot of people know (it does actually relate to ceremonial leadership).

Apparently it was in clearing out an old cupboard in the 1960s that Garret FitzGerald first came across his father's memoirs of the 1916 rising. Garret's father was in the GPO in 1916 and was one of the rebel leaders there, along with Plunkett and Pearse.

Apparently, it was the intention of these men, believing that Germany would win the war, that the German Prince Joachim would become King of Ireland, replacing the British monarchy with a new Irish, and Roman Catholic, monarchy. Pearse and his men had earlier been awaiting a shipment of arms, as we know, from the Germans.

Apparently Dr FitzGerald had his suspicions that Prince Joachim himself was supportive of this idea, but he was never able to have this confirmed. Anyway, just another jewel of enlightenment brought to us by Garret FitzGerald, and although he himself supported the 1916 rebels' cause nevertheless, it might be another compelling reason to wonder about the wisdom of some of the 1916 rebels.

Anyway, an Irish monarchy? It seems that Pearse and his colleagues, some of them our political forbears, were supportive of it.

Liam Byrne

Batsy wrote: »

Just bring back the monarchy again.

With all those adoring crowds in Ireland anxious to meet the Queen - only a few of whom managing to achieve their wish - it seems like the Irish people would love Elizabeth II to be their Head of State. Instead of the Republic of Ireland you'd be the Kingdom of Ireland.

So, why not? How about Ireland because the 17th country of which she is Head of State?

So in your world welcoming someone translates to wanting them as your head of state ?

My parents' house - and my house - must have loads of heads of state so, because we generally try to make visitors feel welcome.

What would we do next week after Obama's been here ? Let them take turns ? Maybe every second week ?

loldog

later10 wrote: »

Apparently, it was the intention of these men, believing that Germany would win the war, that the German Prince Joachim would become King of Ireland

That makes no sense since Pearse went out on the steps and proclaimed a Republic.

The office of Úachtarán has served us well, why bother to change it?

.

later12

loldog wrote: »

That makes no sense since Pearse went out on the steps and proclaimed a Republic.
.

Yes but that does not mean that he did believe that such a Republic was a viable option. Remember Europe at that time was a crowned continent for the most part.

If you read Desmond FitzGerald's own memoirs on this issue, it is clear that there was a sense that the best they could do was get a seat at the peace conference and welcome to Ireland the German Prince.

losthorizon

Its not totally a figurehead role. President Ó Dálaigh had a very bad relationship with his government and indeed referred a bill to the supreme court because he thought it was unconstitutional. All presidents have this power. I think the present term they are serving is perfect as it allows them to grow into the office - a shorter term is not long enough.

mikemac

That story of some of the 1916 leaders considering inviting a Prussian prince is pretty well known.
And seems fairly credible, most of Europe at the time were monarchies and having this well known head of state would help Ireland get international recognition.

And Arthur Griffith and Sinn Féin at one stage supported the idea of dual monarchy and the party was setup as this.

And still had members supporting a monarchy in the 1917 Ard Fheis

None of this is shocking, any knowledgeable SF member could tell you of their monarchist past

later12

feelingstressed wrote: »

That story of some of the 1916 leaders considering inviting a Prussian prince is pretty well known.
And seems fairly credible, most of Europe at the time were monarchies and having this well known head of state would help Ireland get international recognition.

And Arthur Griffith and Sinn Féin at one stage supported the idea of dual monarchy and the party was setup as this.

And still had members supporting a monarchy in the 1917 Ard Fheis

None of this is shocking, any knowledgeable SF member could tell you of their monarchist past

Of course it isn't shocking, the book came out in 2006!

But prior to 2006, I don't think the episode about the Prussian Prince was widely known.

mikemac

later10 wrote: »

Of course it isn't shocking, the book came out in 2006!

I know nothing about the book

And my post was more aimed at loldog then you

sdanseo

I must say I thought that in a forum supposedly about politics, a thread musing over the abolition of the most high office in the state would attract more than 14 bites! :rolleyes:

Knight990

sdonn wrote: »

I must say I thought that in a forum supposedly about politics, a thread musing over the abolition of the most high office in the state would attract more than 14 bites! :rolleyes:

I would have thought so too when I made it, but it's early days yet.:D Some interesting points so far, especially re: Pearse and supposed royal idea.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Criteria for an Irish President.

1. Female

2. Must be called Mary

(Mary Davis in the running now)

thebman

sdonn wrote: »

I must say I thought that in a forum supposedly about politics, a thread musing over the abolition of the most high office in the state would attract more than 14 bites! :rolleyes:

Well its not called abolition of the most high office in the state and its really a runner anyway as there isn't much support for it I would imagine.

Certainly a lot less support than abolishing the Seanad as the president has been seen to be doing something.