Ares Tavor V G&G G210

Gordy6040

Evening All

Seems to me that these are 2 of the coolest bullpup aegs out there. Anyone have expirence of both? What one would you go for? Which is the best out of the box?

Let me know what you guys think,
Cheers
G

Leftyflip

F2000 by miles the Tavor needs too much work to make it run decently.

Gordy6040

Cheers Leftyflip, i had heard the Ares had a few issues but i thought that they might have been cleared up at this stage. its been around for long enough to have the teething problems sorted,.

Firekitten

Leftyflip wrote: »

F2000 by miles the Tavor needs too much work to make it run decently.

Completely disagree.

My Ares has been golden out of the box. Not a problem. Great range and accuracy, great battery performance.
Got my tavor in the UK before they even hit the Irish scene... and its been perfect. See lots around now, and all seem to be fine.

Don't turn the tavors into the new sodding classic army routine. Especially as most haven't go any actual ownership experience of them.

Ive used the g&g, and its a lovely gun. Great externals, and good performer. Seen some friends with issues, but nothing monstrous. If i had to choose, I'd go with the Tar. Both are a BITCH to take apart, but the ares is marginally easier.

Leftyflip

Relax, relax...

This is my experience of them and for a gun that's cheaper, the F2000 is wonderful out of the box, better than the Tavor, in my opinion.

The F2000 is a piece of píss to disassemble, took me a minute to figure it out, when I first got it, two screws, loosen two bolts on the body and pull the gearbox out.

Gordy6040

Cheers for the input Firekitten.
So how long have had yours? I presume you changed the barrel at this stage and put in a better hop rubber etc,
The stories I heard were around the gear box failing. I never pullled the trigger on one but i do like the way they look and feel.

Inari

Firekitten, unfortunately Ireland has not had a good run with the TAR-21. I for one think very highly of ARES, however there is unfortunately no denying that there was some serious QC issues with that particular batch.

When the Tavor came out, it was eagerly anticipated, and if memory serves, Ireland ended up with the American imports - what that suggests is that ARES rushed it, and a few problem cases slipped through the cracks.

To the best of my knowledge, there has only been about 20 (very generous estimate) TAR-21 owners, and a hefty majority had problems with them. I'm sure it was just a batch issue, but as a result of the 'small town' effect, most places and most people are not willing to give benefit of the doubt.

The F2000 on the other hand has a great reputation, and there are a lot of F2000 owners out there. It does have it's issues, namely that if the gearbox is not seated correctly you can lose the semi or full auto function, and the notorious mag issue due to the gearbox screw.

Personally, as always, I recommend that you go with the one you prefer the look of, and worry about performance afterward...but hey, I'm vain.

MerryDespot

As someone who has a G&G F2000 I have to say that I've found it to be utterly golden. Now - size/ergonomics wise I prefer the tavor. It's smaller/slimmer - the f2000 is a bloody huge aeg! It's fat, bulky, and while it shoulders nicely, it's not going to be to everyones tastes.
But I have held off on getting the tavor because of the issues Inari mentions above - i.e. the 'small town' effect of having heard nearly every user over here who has one bitch and moan about having to do a few mods to it (semi auto seemed to cause problems). It wouldn't turn me off getting one at some stage - but when faced with the choice I went with the f2000 - and I don't regret it.

The mag issue only relates to mid caps. Basically there's a screw that holds the gearbox together that protrudes proud of the gearbox shell in the mag well. High caps all work fine, but nearly all mid caps won't fit as the top of the mag needs to be modded first to fit. I use Mag brand plastic mid caps - mostly because with a small bit of trimming (10 seconds per mag with a hacksaw and then sanding down any rough edges) they fit and feed perfectly. Not a big deal and certainly shouldn't be a show stopper for getting one.

MerryDespot

And Firekitten - I'm not someone who has an issue with Ares - I'm currently lusting after at least two Ares aegs and I think the masada (OEM'd by Ares) is a pretty damn good aeg (which has been rock solid reliable since I got it). It's just that the tavor, over here, is always a special order item. This means that unlike the g&g you can't try before you buy...

Gordy6040

Hey Merry
Have you found the adjustable spring makes much of a difference in terms of performance? Basically i suffered from an old gun of mine that used to jump around with the fps depending on the weather, planetry allignments etc.
The idea of a spring thats adjustable , pretty much on the fly is very attractive. of course , that old gun most likely had something drilled but lets not go there . Also , doesnt it strike anyone as odd that someone like g&g would have such an obvious design flaw as that mid cap issue?
I reckon that one could have been sorted before it was sent to market.

MerryDespot

The mid cap issue is a bit weird alright - the screw position could have been moved to avoid the issue. Fixing mags to fit takes almost no time - and the mags will still work in every other stanag aeg - but sure, it could have been better thought out.

As for the adjustable fps - I haven't had cause to adjust it. Mine shoots at 315 on the nose - every shot. That was after an adjustment in the store to bring it down to below 1j at the time of purchase. Adjusting the fps (up or down) is fairly straighforward - you loosen an allen screw and then adjust the larger screw to reduce/increase the fps. When the allen screw is tightened again, no amount of turning on the larger screw will make any different to the fps - so I'd say it's solid. I've use the f2000 at about five skirmishes now and it's has been a solid performer so far. I'll be using it tomorrow at hrta (along with a new baby that needs a workout - Despot has gone commie and finally bought an ak!) - the f2000 is still my 'go to' gun.

Leftyflip

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69380528

My very indepth review of it here.

Gordy6040

Cool, now i'm wondering if anyone has one of these and doesnt like it... maybe they would want to swap for a more conventinal M4.....
Over to advets:)
I would love to try both side by side at some stage. not really interested it tearing them appart cause i'm not technical enough. i'm more interested in feel and performance and of course personal taste is everything in this sport.

MerryDespot

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Cool, now i'm wondering if anyone has one of these and doesnt like it... maybe they would want to swap for a more conventinal M4.....

Good luck with that dude - I'd say most people who have one of these have it as an extra aeg - usually after a M4 type...
I know I've no intentions of parting with mine. I'll shortly be selling off a load of aegs - this will not be one of them...

Gordy6040

ha ha , thats what i figured , you gotta have hopes and dreams though.

Firekitten

Gordy6040 wrote: »

Cheers for the input Firekitten.
So how long have had yours? I presume you changed the barrel at this stage and put in a better hop rubber etc,
The stories I heard were around the gear box failing. I never pullled the trigger on one but i do like the way they look and feel.

I got one of the first batch to hit the UK... um, two, perhaps two and a half years ago? (I forget the exact date, but within a month of release, (had it preordered)

All ive changed was hop and barrel, because Im an accuracy junky. Gearbox has never given me a problem. It runs sweet and smooth. I had to prize it out of the hands of one of the cork lads at cc3 he liked it that much :P
My gearbox hasnt give nthe slightest sign of failure even now. and its seen a lot of use.

from what I see, the fn2000 is a lovely gun. My problem here was what 'looked' like the usual boards routine of slagging things off.

NakedDex

In the interest of balance, I'm going to throw in my two cent here.

The first one or two batches of Tavors in this country were utter cack. The UK's first batches were actually quite good. Anyone who imported from a UK retailer around that time probably saved some heartache compared to anyone who bought local.
Now, it was Ares's fault. QC went out the window for a period to rush the units out, but it's solved now. These days, now that demand has levelled off, the Tavor is a pretty solid gun.

The F2000 went through similar demand, but G&G didn't skimp on QC for the first batches. This did result in a shortage though, so some people weren't best pleased about waiting and bought other rifles instead.


Both are great rifles, but they're very different animals ergonomically. Rather than be worried about which one looks "cooler", I'd seriously suggest you find a store with the F2000 to try it out. Quite a few people find it too bulky, so it's worth shouldering in person.
Trying out the Tavor is more tricky because nobody stocks it here anymore due to it's reputation (like the CA reference or not, it's lumped in with Sportlines). It has improved dramatically, but reputations stick. Your best bet is to ask around sites if anyone has one, and ask to try it. It, again, is very different and some people dislike the magwell placement and controls.

Puding

the issue with the tavor was its origins, there are ares offices in the US and HK know , in the firts few months the models shipped from us seemed ok where as those coming from HK had issues

i;ve had both even thought i love the tavor it is a pain in the ass to work on compared to the fn2000, it does have issues but nothing that can not be fixed so if your very interested in the tavor do not let the problems put you off, ever aeg has issues ( and do not let anyone tell you differently )

then again i find the fn2000 ergonomics crap and never got on with it, i find it way to 'fat' but other would disagree, as with most things in airsoft you will get 101 views as everyone has a different experience

Captain Chaos

I own both of these myself. I have the TAR around 6 months now and its running great as is the F2000. Performance wise, I'm getting a bit more range and accuracy for the TAR but that may well be down to the fact I have the full barrel length TAR. The F2000 barrel is approx 100mm shorter regardless of which version you get as is just has a different flash hider with the same internal barrel.

The TAR is much nicer to hold, shoulder and change mags. The F2000 feels bulky and the sight has a small FOV but good eye relief, changing mags takes a bit getting used to to get fast at it. Having to modify each mid cap you buy to fit it is a pain though and if you get a mag from someone in the field, odds are it won't fit unless it's a high cap. Ergonomically of the bullpups out there I'd rate them as the AUG, TAR, P90, SA80, F2000. Even at that there is little between them as I find them all generally more comfortable than a standard rifle layout.

Neither AEG can use PMAGs, the TAR is fine with EMAGs but they need to be modified for the F2000.

The F2000 is alot easier to take apart and work on than the TAR. It strips down like an AUG or P90 before getting into the nitty gritty.

Overall though if I had to choose one, it would be tough for me but the TAR would win out. Probably because I didn't have to spend crazy money on mine and got it for about €370 imported on a special deal last year. Both are very solid AEGs and the TAR edges slightly in front with out of the box performance for me, just don't bother with the version that comes with the MARS.

Firekitten

I'll agree with Chaos... the mars is poo. Get the rail one instead. Much nicer. Stick a lovely trijicon reflex or an acog on and its pretty!

Ergonimics wise... agree. but id put it Sa80 (ok personally I find it really easy from training) aug, p90, Tar, fn2000... hate the fn2000 ergonomics, its a blobby fat bastard cousin of the 90, with none of the slim, pretty petite'ness of the p90 that makes it so usable.

Controlability... aug, Tar, p90, fn2000, sa80. (tar uses m4 style rotary selector on side of grip)

Best performance out of the box? Tar (Ares), Sa80 (Ares), P90 (TM) Fn2000 (G&G) Aug (Ca)

The midcap issue can be solved dremmeling slightly into the gearbox shell so you dont have to mod your midcap mags for it, but its a horrific oversight in my book.

E-mags do fit in the tar, but come on! they were made for the sa80! they look horrid in the tar :P

bullets

Forgetting for a minute all the technical pro's and con's of both AEG's

I've found the G2010/FN2000 a very comfortable gun to skirmish.
While wearing a full facemask though I found it difficult to get down and look
through the optics "quickly" (I've the hunter version) so ended up most of the time looking through the battle sites on top of the optics. Its very comfortable to hold. The rubber backplate/buttplate is annoying as it can come off very easily and I need to use insulating tape to wrap it so I dont loose it when skirmishing on the rare occasion that I do skirmish. Other people when asking to
see it have commented that it was heavy but honestly I did not notice this. Its back heavy so it sits into the shoulder lovely,
and the motor is in the back so its nice and quite with the ABS body. The fore grip is very FAT though and feels odd. And if you
want lightning reactions its a bit clunky.

Last time I was at a skirmish one of the Lads brought his Tavor along and I picked it up (after a full day of skirmishing with the FN2000) and was WOW'ed by its comfort. I did not fire it but it felt SOoooooo Comfy to hold, shoulder and swing about the place. As Ugly as it was (still prettier than the FN2000) it felt great to hold. (it also felt lighter in the hands compared to the FN2000)


~B

Gordy6040

Firekitten wrote: »

I got one of the first batch to hit the UK... um, two, perhaps two and a half years ago? (I forget the exact date, but within a month of release, (had it preordered)

All ive changed was hop and barrel, because Im an accuracy junky. Gearbox has never given me a problem. It runs sweet and smooth. I had to prize it out of the hands of one of the cork lads at cc3 he liked it that much :P
My gearbox hasnt give nthe slightest sign of failure even now. and its seen a lot of use.

from what I see, the fn2000 is a lovely gun. My problem here was what 'looked' like the usual boards routine of slagging things off.

Yeah , i hear what you are saying about the slagging, I put most of it down to a "small town mentality", like if there are 1 or 2 people with an issue with a particular brand, retailler, site. The story gets repeated and because its a small community soon everyone hears that a particular brand, retailler, site is useless etc. Glad yours worked out well . There were concers here about the robustness of the gearbox. I guess we can put it down to a batch issue.

Firekitten

Mine's seen decent use for the two and a bit years ive had it. pretty much every other skirmish I take it out... its usually always in the car because if something else goes down, it works.... Reliability and longevity wise? yeah, its got that going for it. But it may well be batch in reverse and I got lucky !

SuperBlu26

I have the Ares Tavor (in Ireland) when I got it there were problems with the micro switch in the trigger and had to get it replaced. The gun works great in full auto but in semi it some times dosent work. It has great accuary and range and would recommend it. I would also love to try the G&G F2000.