Hybrids and the NCT

Chippy01

I took our Prius for it's first NCT today.
When it all was over, the guy behind the counter handed me just the white result sheet.
Everything passed with flying colours, except the emissions section which was marked as N/A.
He then told me that because hybrids cannot be emissions tested, the result at the bottom of the sheet automatically states a 'FAIL', even though the car had in fact passed the test; and that the green pass cert and disc will be posted out to my home address.
Can any other hybrid owners confirm that this is how it's done?, and if it is, how long until the cert arrives?

johnayo

Chippy01 wrote: »

I took our Prius for it's first NCT today.
When it all was over, the guy behind the counter handed me just the white result sheet.
Everything passed with flying colours, except the emissions section which was marked as N/A.
He then told me that because hybrids cannot be emissions tested, the result at the bottom of the sheet automatically states a 'FAIL', even though the car had in fact passed the test; and that the green pass cert and disc will be posted out to my home address.
Can any other hybrid owners confirm that this is how it's done?, and if it is, how long until the cert arrives?

Put a few bob in the ashtray and send it back in again. The fail on the end of sheet will automatically read pass.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

mickdw

Ive heard this before but that is a pretty stupid system.
Surely there is some method of testing them when the engine is running.

Does this mean that here is Ireland, the so called green cars might be the dirtiest cars on the road due to them just passing through the NCT regardless of engine condition?

God Father

seems a bit stupid to me. My mam drives a prius and it is due it's nct.

They should be able to test the emissions as firstly if you have the Prius in park with the engine off and you depress the accelerator the engine will come on for as long as you have your foot down.

secondly and less important if car is sar for long enough in park with the likes of the lights and aircon on when the battery runs dead the engine kicks in.

Now maybe the revs of the engine would be the problem?..... I'd imagine though Toyota have a way to set the car to idle, for servicing etc.

Mr Benevolent

The problem is that you can't rev a hybrid in neutral - it'll refuse. Since you can't rev it you can't check high idle, therefore you can't pass the emissions test, so it's exempted it.

colm_mcm

They obviously have to generate a cert afterwards because their software won't let them print a cert with a fail result

Hardly much of an inconvenience but a good excuse for the anti-everything bandwagon to appear.

Far as I know, rotary engines are done that way too.

unkel

From the NCT manual:

Hybrid vehicles should be viewed as an electric vehicle and will not require an exhaust emissions test.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

Far as I know, rotary engines are done that way too.

Yup - same page of the manual:

This test does not apply to two-stroke or rotary piston (Wankel) engines.

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

From the NCT manual:
Hybrid vehicles should be viewed as an electric vehicle and will not require an exhaust emissions test.

That still leaves the fact that the engine could have all sorts of issues and it would still pass the test. What are we going to do about all the dirty hybrids polluting our towns in years to come?
Its simply not an electric vehicle so the testing procedure is wrong. Surely the manufacturers of hybrids, across the board should have to provide an in car service setting which would allow a high idle to be produced for a given period as a condition of its european certification (or whatever processes cars go through prior to being allowed on sale). Its hardly rocket science.

Typhoon.

Cert comes in the post OP. no bothers

Chippy01

Thanks for the replies guys.

ShadowHearth

Wait. Rotar engine does not go emission test? First time I hear it...

colm_mcm

Yep, great if you want to modify an rx

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Yup - same page of the manual:

Im glad to see they are aware of LPG and CNG fueled engines too:

6. For vehicles tested operating on L.P.G. the hydrocarbon reading must be divided by the propane/hexane
equivalent factor (PEF) which is marked on the hydrocarbon test equipment.
8. A HC test is not required on vehicles operating on CNG.

Though how do they know if a vehicle is running on LPG aside from the owner telling them?

Capt'n Midnight

Matt Simis wrote: »

Though how do they know if a vehicle is running on LPG aside from the owner telling them?

If your car fails emissions can you just strap a Calor gas Cylinder in the boot

Mar4ix

ok, but engine should kick in when doing brake test ??? run car on brake test, and same time check emission .... ill bet, there will be problems check emissions on idling revs.... I think manufacturers should add option "run engine only" button.

ShadowHearth

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yep, great if you want to modify an rx

Ime to get rx7 so . And who said hybrids are useless, I would not know about rotat engines now lol.


Why exactly rotars can't be tested?

alias no.9

Matt Simis wrote: »

Im glad to see they are aware of LPG and CNG fueled engines too:


Though how do they know if a vehicle is running on LPG aside from the owner telling them?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If your car fails emissions can you just strap a Calor gas Cylinder in the boot

At a guess, CNG and LPG contain shorter chain molecules and generally burn much cleaner, so their HC limits should be tighter.

challengemaster

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Why exactly rotars can't be tested?

Because the emissions are off the charts for rotary engines, even straight out of a factory an RX8 woudn't pass the NCT emissions tests.

Bigus

Yes Prius They don't test emmissions &

They don't put the Prius on the rollers for the brake test either, believe it or not,

I asked and they said they won't come up out of the rollers, I know this is because of the agressive traction control.

Instead of the rollers they go into the office and get an accelerometer and put it on the passenger seat. They then (in Greenhills) test the brakes and the parking brake on the shiny painted surface.

I got wifes Cert on they day though.

Prius = easiest car to get to pass NCT.
Prius = one of the most reliable cars on the road, very little maintenence, simple Petrol engine,no timing belt, don't use brake pads or discs, no DMF,no Turbo,no dual mass flywheels, no dirty diesel.
Prius = Very economical in the real world.

PADRAIC.M

There is a way to put all Toyota hybrids into inspection mode which runs the engine all the time which Toyota supplied the ncts with the info for this procedure,they just chose the easy option of not testing it!!!

Our man in Havana

Prius=Off the charts smug emissions.

challengemaster

Prius = Kill yourself from boredom

Max Power1

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Prius=Off the charts smug emissions.

Thats the exact opposite of "smiles per gallon"

ShadowHearth

challengemaster wrote: »

Because the emissions are off the charts for rotary engines, even straight out of a factory an RX8 woudn't pass the NCT emissions tests.

Hmmm so if mazda just made rotar engine and did not even bothered to put down emissions? So why ather car manufactures bother with lower emissions? I presume you wount find any rx8 pass 08 in Ireland?

Sorry for offtopic, but I cba starting a thread about it: is rx7 still taxed as 1.3 and rx8 as 1.8?

Looks like rx7 would be ultimate weekend car... Easy nct, low tax, mpg for weekend car does not influence much...

unkel

challengemaster wrote: »

Because the emissions are off the charts for rotary engines, even straight out of a factory an RX8 woudn't pass the NCT emissions tests.

I don't think it's as dramatic as that

The rotary engine passed Euro IV, but not Euro V emissions standards.

So that meant it was illegal to sell the RX-8 in Europe from when Euro V was introduced, a few years ago

Mazda will have to develop a completely new rotary engine to comply with Euro V

colm_mcm

I think you're confusing test cycle co2 emissions figures with the emissions testing the nct do.
Mazda have official cycle figures for the rx8 and they're very high so massive road tax on the new system. Makes the whole system look silly if cars are allowed high figures just because they are rotary engined.

A bit crazy too that a hybrid could have a leaky exhaust that wouldn't be picked up on.

stevenmu

colm_mcm wrote: »

Mazda have official cycle figures for the rx8 and they're very high so massive road tax on the new system. Makes the whole system look silly if cars are allowed high figures just because they are rotary engined.

And high VRT too. Mazda voluntarily stopped selling them here because the combination of high retail price (due to VRT) and top annual tax rate made them sale-proof.

Sorry for offtopic, but I cba starting a thread about it: is rx7 still taxed as 1.3 and rx8 as 1.8?

I believe both are taxed as a 1.8 by default. Apparantly it's possible to appeal this to the motor tax office and get it put on the lower 1.3 rate, I'm planning to do this before my next renewal, reportedly a few people have been successful in this.



As far as I know the rotary engines are exempt from emissions testing simply because the machines can't get an accurate reading for them. I'm not sure why it should be so different to a piston engine in that regard, I would have thought they could just sample the exhaust gasses and measure the components, but apparantly with rotaries the readings come out all over the place. The same car could be tested with the same machine twice in a row and get very different results.

Viper_JB

stevenmu wrote: »

As far as I know the rotary engines are exempt from emissions testing simply because the machines can't get an accurate reading for them. I'm not sure why it should be so different to a piston engine in that regard, I would have thought they could just sample the exhaust gasses and measure the components, but apparantly with rotaries the readings come out all over the place. The same car could be tested with the same machine twice in a row and get very different results.

I'm pretty sure the ignitions on the cars are supposed to be within certain tollerances depending on engine size, as rotarys are classed as 1.8 in Ireland (oh btw if you successfully get yours brought down to 1.3 on the log book let me know please) I don't think they'd ever be capable of meeting the expected co2 output of a 1.8 car, feel free to correct me on this though.

I think for the nct though when testing rotaries and hybrids they're supposed to enter that in at the start of test and the cery should be handed out as the test is then skipped but it's down to the individual operator being aware of this, and most of the time I wouldn't count on it.

Capt'n Midnight

alias no.9 wrote: »

At a guess, CNG and LPG contain shorter chain molecules and generally burn much cleaner, so their HC limits should be tighter.

The main component in CNG is methane CH4 which has no chain

Victor Meldrew

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Wait. Rotary engine does not go emission test? First time I hear it...

Considering their reputation for burning oil and drinking petrol, this is a bit weird? Presumably you can fast idle a rotary motor?

That said, given the state of the average Rx8 motor after 4 years, getting to the NCT center might be an achievement in it's self. Saw a guy leave one running at a garage when he filled up due to the warm start problem the cars have. That car, with a proper motor would be awesome ...

Absurdum

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

That car, with a proper motor would be awesome ...

...but heavier with a higher CoG :pac:

Viper_JB

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

That car, with a proper motor would be awesome ...

That car with it's current motor is awesome, the main problem in most cases is the fleshy bit behind the wheel :P, gotta know the ins and outs of the car if you're going to own one.

Victor Meldrew

Viper_JB wrote: »

That car with it's current motor is awesome, the main problem in most cases is the fleshy bit behind the wheel :P , gotta know the ins and outs of the car if you're going to own one.

It was on the short list a few years back*, agreed, it's great to drive, and lots of fun, but as a long term prospect, and a second hand purchase, it's a bit of an issue. Irrespective of knowing the car, is there a way to get 150K out of the Motor?

Putting a normal motor in it could end up a bit like the Citroen CX, which was supposed to have a rotary mill, but ended up with asthmatic 4 pot motors due to funding and small engine bay issues..




*For herself, she loved it, but could not justify the expense or really call it a family car..

Viper_JB

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

It was on the short list a few years back*, agreed, it's great to drive, and lots of fun, but as a long term prospect, and a second hand purchase, it's a bit of an issue. Irrespective of knowing the car, is there a way to get 150K out of the Motor?

It's definitly not for everyone (or really a family car) but I'd believe it's possible to get 150k out of the motor by taking good care of it, get as much out as you put into it.
There's plenty driving around with upwards of 100k, maybe in a few years time there may be some higher milage ones, I dunno...it wouldn't be the same car with out the rotary, it'll never be as reliable as your standard toyota avensis or anything but you could probably say the same for most performance cars. For me it's engineering excellence and great to see an engine with such a unique design, wouldn't change it for the world (sorry bout the OT posts )

Matt Simis

Viper_JB wrote: »

It's definitly not for everyone (or really a family car) but I'd believe it's possible to get 150k out of the motor by taking good care of it, get as much out as you put into it.

Without rebuilds?

mickdw

Bigus wrote: »

Prius = easiest car to get to pass NCT.
Prius = one of the most reliable cars on the road, very little maintenence, simple Petrol engine,no timing belt, don't use brake pads or discs, no DMF,no Turbo,no dual mass flywheels, no dirty diesel.
Prius = Very economical in the real world.

All of the above points (except the economical bit) would apply to the lexus Gs450h. So much nicer in every way. Economical for what it is, I got mid 20s mpg I think over a weekend that I had one. Probably not matching the likes of bmw 535d etc on mpg but I agree less likely to go wrong.

slave1

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

Irrespective of knowing the car, is there a way to get 150K out of the Motor?

Yep, here

Viper_JB

Matt Simis wrote: »

Without rebuilds?

Well I can't give a definitive answer on this but I don't see why not, again as long as it's well maintained...they have a bad rep but realisticly the majority of owners are not going to maintain the engine internals, and it is the majority which will be heard.

stevenmu

There's a thread on rx8club.com called the High Mileage Club or something like that. I can't seem to find it now but there's many on there with original motors over 150k miles, some pushing/over 200k.