Entering into Formal Renunciation

Asry

OK. I really don't know where to post this. I was going to put it first in the agnosticism forum but I'm still a Christian. I was going to put it in the LGBT forum, and I might still do that, more as a step-by-step guide as to how it's done or a log or whatever.

But RCC doesn't equate the whole of Christianity. It's a certain stance within it. There are other ways to be Christian, other ways to follow Christ, fairer ways [in my own belief].

This has been coming my way for a long time. I'm upset right now even typing this. And confused. But I think that what I'll be doing is the right thing to do. Obviously it will require an entire shift in my worldview, my theological standpoints...everything I was taught since childhood.

So. I'm going to seek a formal recognition of renunciation of my inclusion in the Catholic Church. I have found the correct paths to do this. I just need time to get my head together, as this is in no way a decision that is being made lightly.

Suggestions and comments or advice welcome. If you question my state of mind/maturity/understanding of the Scriptures/moral values or ethics, I will try my best to ignore you, as I refuse to be allowed to be made more distressed about this than I already am.

Thank you.

Quo Vadis

I once considered leaving the Catholic Church due to all the scandals, but before leaving for good, I decided to study its teachings in depth to test them, and the deeper I studied them, the more I realised I was in the correct Church all along. Thank God.

From John 6

Jesus said to them,

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him."

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go?"

So if you choose to leave, have you carefully considered where are you going to get the bread of life and the sacrements ?

"The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
Again Jesus said, 'Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.' And with that he breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.' "

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” - Matthew 16:18-19

Remember that for every 12 apostles there may always be one Judas, that does not make the other 11 wrong. In my opinion, focusing on the just the clergy that become Judas down through the years would be a huge mistake.

Generations of your ancestors before you withstood persecution, penal laws and famine to remain Catholic and pass the faith onto you, so be careful before you throw it away or let it wither and die.

Good luck in whatever decision you make, and take your time (even years) making it , and God Bless.

Doctor DooM

Quo Vadis wrote: »

. In my opinion, focusing on the just the clergy that have become Judas would be a huge mistake.


Good luck in whatever decision you make and God Bless.

She doesn't say anything about the clergy in the post.

Asry

Thank you Communion is my main concern at the moment. I honestly don't know. It's not about the sex scandals, although of course they do influence my decision to some extent. I don't believe all clergy are pedophiles. The priests I have met are good, honest, hardworking men.

It's the perceived inequality within the Church, combined with views on the LGBT community. As a member of that community, I have tried all my life to reconcile myself and submit myself to the will of the Church, but in recent times it has been causing a great deal of distress and can no longer be borne.

I know my Scriptures. It is the moral and ethical standpoint of the Church that I can no longer subscribe to, and I hope that my relationship with Christ will remain unaltered. That will remain to be seen. If I cast myself out I will stand on the outside, as he did. And I will take my chances there.

tenchi-fan

Asry wrote: »

There are other ways to be Christian, other ways to follow Christ, fairer ways [in my own belief].

I think the Catholic church has excellent potential at bringing together the community, but rather than investing their time in the church too many people use as a scapegoat for society's problems and their own personal problems.

You're unhappy. You're in the church. Solution: leave the church. And after making that change you devote all your efforts to finding happiness. If it works out you congratulate yourself on the best decision of your life. If it doesn't, well you can still blame the church for screwing you up.

You should also be careful with a lot of liberal members of the "gay community" who will make you feel good, but promote abortion, sexual promiscuity and lack of personal responsibility. The gay rights movement made huge strides only when the world's economy started booming.. they often have a lot of discretionary income.

Gays of today are in gear for fun, but during times of hardship I don't think most gay people will be emotionally stable enough to cope. Elton John, at over 60 years of age, was considered too old to adopt a baby. So he hired a surrogate to have his baby. He is estranged from his 86-year old widowed mother.

Quo Vadis

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. " - Matthew 7:13-14

Consider carefully before you become just another a la carte "Christian"

“If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hated. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh.

If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church that is accused of being behind the times, as our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils.

Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself the Truth.

Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men. Look for the Church which amid the confusions of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its Voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly it is other worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. But only that which is Divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved.

Therefore the Church is Divine…the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it is curious how many miss its obviousness.”

"Few people hate the Catholic Church, but millions hate what they think is the Catholic Church"

– Archbishop Fulton Sheen

philologos

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Therefore the Church is Divine…the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it is curious how many miss its obviousness.”

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate this claim. Unless you are saying that the Christian church is what came out of Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church in its current form came into being due to Constantine.

Quo Vadis

philologos wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing to substantiate this claim. Unless you are saying that the Christian church is what came out of Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church in its current form came into being due to Constantine.

I don’t expect Protestants to agree or else they would hardly be Protestants.

But the fact remains the keys have passed down along 265 men from Pope Saint Peter to Pope Benedict XVI. It is one of the oldest continuous institutions in the world.

philologos

Quo Vadis wrote: »

But the fact remains the keys have passed down along 265 men from Pope Saint Peter to Pope Benedict XVI. It is one of the oldest continuous institutions in the world.

What basis do you have for saying this though other than that's what you're supposed to believe?

Quo Vadis

philologos wrote: »

What basis do you have for saying this though other than that's what you're supposed to believe?

As opposed to what Protestants are "supposed to believe"
A more focused question would be one what basis do you say it hasn’t?

Asry

tenchi-fan wrote: »

You're unhappy. You're in the church. Solution: leave the church. And after making that change you devote all your efforts to finding happiness. If it works out you congratulate yourself on the best decision of your life. If it doesn't, well you can still blame the church for screwing you up.

You should also be careful with a lot of liberal members of the "gay community" who will make you feel good, but promote abortion, sexual promiscuity and lack of personal responsibility. The gay rights movement made huge strides only when the world's economy started booming.. they often have a lot of discretionary income.

I resent your use of quotation marks surrounding the term gay community. Liberal members of the 'straight community' would also make me feel good, promote abortion, sexual promiscuity and lack of personal responsibility.

Like Donatello in previous posts, have you been living in storybooks and your ideas of what people are like, or have you stepped out into reality to learn for yourself what people are like? None of my lesbian friends would promote any of those things.

The discretionary income is nothing but conspiracy theory on your part, and I'm afraid you're posting in the wrong board for that.

Asry

Quo Vadis wrote: »

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. " - Matthew 7:13-14

Consider carefully before you become just another a la carte "Christian"

“If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hated. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh.

If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church that is accused of being behind the times, as our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils.

Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself the Truth.

Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men. Look for the Church which amid the confusions of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its Voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly it is other worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. But only that which is Divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved.

Therefore the Church is Divine…the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it is curious how many miss its obviousness.”

"Few people hate the Catholic Church, but millions hate what they think is the Catholic Church"

– Archbishop Fulton Sheen

This exact quotation was used in another post. I couldn't really be bothered to find it and link it. The response was that then surely the Westboro Baptist Church would be the one true church.

This argument is just founded on perception based on no verifiable evidence whatsoever.

Does the good archbishop know the millions who he thinks hate the Church for what they perceive it to be?

Either way, this is irrelevant.

philologos

Quo Vadis wrote: »

As opposed to what Protestants are "supposed to believe"
A more focused question would be one what basis do you say it hasn’t?

I thought I was asking the question. I'm just asking you why you believe what you do about the RCC existing since Christ, and Peter as being documented as the first Pope.

tenchi-fan

Asry wrote: »

I resent your use of quotation marks surrounding the term gay community.

Ironically, to make your sentence gramatically correct you should have written:

I resent your use of quotation marks surrounding the term "gay community."

Anyways, I resent the use of the term "gay community." But that's a topic for a different day and a different forum.

Donatello

Asry, the Catholic Church has the glorious witness of the saints. Nowhere else will you find persons so holy as the great stream of Catholic saints - saints of outstanding holiness who loved God to the max, who heroically served His people, and who worked wondrous miracles.

Nowhere else will you find the Eucharistic miracles to prove that Christ is really present in the Eucharist - see here.

I offer you this article to read and carefully consider:

Catholic Compassion: When they tell you that the Church is wrong about sexuality. [Click here].

Quo Vadis

Asry wrote: »

This exact quotation was used in another post. I couldn't really be bothered to find it and link it. The response was that then surely the Westboro Baptist Church would be the one true church.

Well, if that’s what you really believe, then perhaps something like the Westboro "Baptist" "Church" or another a la carte "Christianity" may be best for you after all.

It's a well known quote that many people have found useful.

I'll leave you with a few more of his words regarding your dilemma

" We must not back away from confronting initiatives such as these which are in direct contrast to the Word of God. We must not yield any more ground to politically correct secular humanist efforts which are in line with the kingdom of darkness, not the Kingdom of God. Speaking out against this is not rejecting or condemning individuals; it is rejecting and condemning lifestyles and wrong choices.

The fact that somebody is born with certain compulsions or urges does not legitimise them. It means that they need to exercise discipline and restraint as they would an urge or compulsion to for any other inappropriate or immoral acts, including homosexual and lesbian lifestyles.

The Bible is not a buffet from which you can pick and choose what you want to believe or not believe. It is not a set of guidelines; it is the word of God. If you don't obey God's word, you are rejecting God's word.

The Bible, the Church and Christian believers are not suppose to condemn and reject homosexuals and lesbians, they are suppose to condemn and reject the sin and the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle.

The loving thing to do is confront the sin in someone you love, not let them continue in it to their own destruction. Love the sinner but hate the sin, accept the individual but reject the lifestyle.

God loves homosexuals, just as He loves everyone else, but God hates sin and sinful behaviors. God gives everyone a choice to follow Him or reject Him, but there are consequences to that decision. If we reject God he graciously steps aside and gives us over to that which we desire more.

Romans 1: 24-25 clearly identifies homosexual behavior as sinful . . It is difficult to argue the meaning or clarity of this passage, or leave room for Christian believers to have any other position or opinion. "

Keylem

Since you are not enthusiastic about both following and defending the fullness of the Catholic Faith, you will have nothing to keep you from following 30,000 plus apostates, who present easier (but different) gospels.

Jesus never said it would be easy, he said that we are to take up our cross and follow him!

Doctor DooM

Guys, Asri, if I am correct, is not leaving the Catholic Church because she believes it's hard.


It's because she believes it's wrong.

tenchi-fan

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Guys, Asri, if I am correct, is not leaving the Catholic Church because she believes it's hard.


It's because she believes it's wrong.

No, it's because she believes it's unfair. Possibly incompatible with her lifestyle.

philologos

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Guys, Asri, if I am correct, is not leaving the Catholic Church because she believes it's hard.


It's because she believes it's wrong.

In fairness I hope she hasn't decided to leave solely on the basis of that "Vortex" show. That's about as much a valid representation of Roman Catholicism as the Alive! newspaper.

Although I'm a non-Catholic and I respect Asry's decision to look elsewhere I would also say to try not to base her viewpoints of Roman Catholicism on sensationalist videos and articles such as the type that are commonly being posted on this forum by some.

Doctor DooM

philologos wrote: »

In fairness I hope she hasn't decided to leave solely on the basis of that "Vortex" show. That's about as much a valid representation of Roman Catholicism as the Alive! newspaper.

Although I'm a non-Catholic and I respect Asry's decision to look elsewhere I would also say to try not to base her viewpoints of Roman Catholicism on sensationalist videos and articles such as the type that are commonly being posted on this forum by some.

I completely agree with you, I was more annoyed in that instant by converting the OP's issue into her not "manning up" to deal with the issue she's facing, when it's pretty clearly not the case.


If her faith is important to her as it clearly is, I would expect she's done or will be doing alot of research and soul searching.

Doctor DooM

tenchi-fan wrote: »

No, it's because she believes it's unfair. Possibly incompatible with her lifestyle.

Ok, lets play word games, rather than deal with the problem the OP is trying to deal with.

Looking up synonyms of fair, I find just.

So to find the opposite, I look for unjust, where I also find unfair, and... wrong.

Wrong is an antonym of fair.

I guess if you wish to continue not taking the op in spirit she meant that's fine. It's just something I don't like/ dislike / abhor / scorn / shun.

Keylem

In other words, rewrite the Bible, and reform God into your century's image!!!!

philologos

One can hold the Bible in high regard, be a Christian but not be a Roman Catholic. I think Asry should think about it long and hard though and I wish her the best.

Keylem

It is unfortunate, but true, that the bible can also be erroneously interpreted and used to prove all sorts of nonsense.
The misuse of the Scriptures, twisting verses into contrived apologetical schemes for purposes of refutation or to shore up dubious opinions is increasingly common.

Catholics have a living tradition that includes the writings and homilies of the ancient fathers and the saints. Catholics tend to interpret passages in a contextual manner that does no injustice to the Word of God. Certain fundamentalists will pick-and-choose verses with little consideration about what they are actually addressing, or the inherent language and cultural peculiarities attached to them.

Donatello

philologos wrote: »

In fairness I hope she hasn't decided to leave solely on the basis of that "Vortex" show. That's about as much a valid representation of Roman Catholicism as the Alive! newspaper.

Although I'm a non-Catholic and I respect Asry's decision to look elsewhere I would also say to try not to base her viewpoints of Roman Catholicism on sensationalist videos and articles such as the type that are commonly being posted on this forum by some.

I don't think altar girls is a deal breaker.

I suggest to the OP that he/she study the writings of Pope John Paul II on human sexuality in the divine plan, entitled Theology of the Body. There are some introductory guides available.

Asry

Quo Vadis wrote: »

The fact that somebody is born with certain compulsions or urges does not legitimise them. It means that they need to exercise discipline and restraint as they would an urge or compulsion to for any other inappropriate or immoral acts, including homosexual and lesbian lifestyles.

The Bible is not a buffet from which you can pick and choose what you want to believe or not believe. It is not a set of guidelines; it is the word of God. If you don't obey God's word, you are rejecting God's word.

Easy enough for a straight priest to say. But OK. Don't you think I know all this? I mean, seriously now.

Keylem wrote: »

Since you are not enthusiastic about both following and defending the fullness of the Catholic Faith, you will have nothing to keep you from following 30,000 plus apostates, who present easier (but different) gospels.

Is this taunting? Are you trying to goad me back into the fold with superior sneers? Is that really what you think would be expected of you in the eyes of God?

Keylem wrote: »

It is unfortunate, but true, that the bible can also be erroneously interpreted and used to prove all sorts of nonsense.
The misuse of the Scriptures, twisting verses into contrived apologetical schemes for purposes of refutation or to shore up dubious opinions is increasingly common.

ie, that anyone who's not Roman Catholic will always interpret the bible erroneously. I know that. As I said, yes, I know all this; stop treating me like I'm an uneducated child.

Donatello wrote: »

I suggest to the OP that he/she study the writings of Pope John Paul II on human sexuality in the divine plan, entitled Theology of the Body. There are some introductory guides available.

I will indeed go over the theology of the body. I've read it before, but it was years ago and I need to refresh.

There seems to be an assumption that I'm looking to take the easy way out and just pick and choose which parts of the bible I want to believe in. This is not the case. As I think I said, it's the RCC political policy and stances as regards LGBT and women's rights that I cannot live with.

After a good 15 years of struggling, resulting in eventual mental ill-health, I might add, I had to really take a look at my life and wonder if this is what God really would have wanted to me to do with his gift of life - end it.

We are all made in the image of God. I want to be equal. And in this world, with this hegemony, I will never be, despite what cloudy saccharine nets my retractors throw over me.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Quo Vadis

Asry wrote: »

Easy enough for a straight priest to say. But OK. Don't you think I know all this? I mean, seriously now.

Since when was a vow of celibacy easy ? How do you know what his sexual orientation was ?
How should I know what you do and don't know ? In your OP you state you're confused. I don't wish to start making presumptions of what you do or don't know.

You're not the first homosexual / bisexual Catholic woman and although it may feel like it you're not alone.

http://www.encouragetrust.org.uk/
http://www.couragerc.net/

Asry wrote: »

it's the RCC political policy and stances as regards LGBT and women's rights that I cannot live with.

For clarity of further discussion, can you list for us what you believe these political policies and stances are ?

tenchi-fan

Asry wrote: »

As I think I said, it's the RCC political policy and stances as regards LGBT and women's rights that I cannot live with.

After a good 15 years of struggling, resulting in eventual mental ill-health, I might add, I had to really take a look at my life and wonder if this is what God really would have wanted to me to do with his gift of life - end it.

Hi Op, you'll find in this forum there are a lot of holier than thou people who love nothing more than a good argument.

It's easy to forget that we are speaking to actual people on the other side of the screen...

So my apologies because I was one of the keyboard bashers.

I don't think God would want you to worry yourself sick like you are doing. The bible advises you not to worry or anguish, your prayers will be answered.

But like Jesus suffered, you need to remember that your sexuality is your cross to bear. Rather than let it get in the way of your relationship with God you should remind yourself that it is what brings you closer to God, as your suffering must be similar to the suffering and persecution Jesus suffered.

The Church has problems, granted. But I don't think you should concern yourself with the political problems of the church. If you don't like the tone used by one priest in his homily, listen to another.

If you don't like the fact that the church says you can't spend your life with someone of the same sex, well, unfortunately that is non-negotiable. You can have same-sex friends but you cannot live with them as a spouse. Is that your main problem? What is it you want in life that you can't obtain as a Catholic?

Regarding pre-marital sex, the fact is the church doesn't just say gay people cannot have pre-marital sex. It says no one is permitted to have pre-marital sex. It also says people should not masturbate, or perform oral or anal sex, or to lust after men or women, or use condoms, or use IVF.. or get drunk. Or eat meat on Good Friday or Ash Wednesday. Don't take any of these personally just because you are gay as these rules apply to everyone equally.

As for adoption, Church agencies will only allow adoption by married couples. Once again, don't take it personally. The law allows for adoption and fostering by individuals or married couples, gay or straight (and in the future, if not already, same sex couples will have equal rights in the eyes of the law). I doubt you will be refused communion if you adopt or foster a child (although is it as sin in the eyes of the church? maybe. I don't know. Surely it is better for a child to have a home than bounce from institution to institution?)

So if you draw a big list of what you perceive to be injustices you will find that they apply to everyone regardless of your sexuality or gender.

Asry

teHinchi-fan wrote: »

Op, you'll find in this forum there are a lot of holier than thou people who love nothing more than a good argument.

It's easy to forget that we are speaking to actual people on the other side of the screen...

So my apologies because I was one of the keyboard bashers.

Thanks I saw that you'd posted and sighed, thinking you were going to lambaste me.

teHinchi-fan wrote: »

I don't think God would want you to worry yourself sick like you are doing. The bible advises you not to worry or anguish, your prayers will be answered.

I feel quite peaceful at the moment for this reason. God provides. He is my sword, and my shield.

teHinchi-fan wrote: »

But like Jesus suffered, you need to remember that your sexuality is your cross to bear. Rather than let it get in the way of your relationship with God you should remind yourself that it is what brings you closer to God, as your suffering must be similar to the suffering and persecution Jesus suffered.

I know. We all have our difficulties and must follow the way accordingly. But this is affecting my mental stability, and my view of the world, and has been for over a decade. I don't want to see it go further than it has done. I don't want to see where this leads to.

teHinchi-fan wrote: »

If you don't like the tone used by one priest in his homily, listen to another.

....I am. By leaving. And listening to someone else. On the same topic.

teHinchi-fan wrote: »

What is it you want in life that you can't obtain as a Catholic?

Equality. Respect.

teHinchi-fan wrote: »

Regarding pre-marital sex, the fact is the church doesn't just say gay people cannot have pre-marital sex. It says no one is permitted to have pre-marital sex.

Absolutely.

Asry

oh, and don't be worrying. This has really nothing to do with female altar servers

Asry

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I can't though. As a baptised and confirmed Catholic, I would remain on the register forever. And I just don't want my name there.

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I am currently embroiled with my parish as to whether or not I am permitted to attend World Youth Day. We shall see.

I will of course not act yet. I need time. I have read as much as I can on this subject already, for years. I never was one for quoting or anything like that, but I assure you, I am not basing my decisions on random articles I've found on the internet.

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I do hope so. I would like to stay, to leave things as they are and continue. It would be the easy way. But this human experience is so far removed from the one I was taught about that I can see no correlation whatsoever.

Keylem

Is this taunting? Are you trying to goad me back into the fold with superior sneers? Is that really what you think would be expected of you in the eyes of God?

I was just giving a word of caution as there are wolves in sheeps clothing out there (there are also a few in the CC)

ie, that anyone who's not Roman Catholic will always interpret the bible erroneously. I know that. As I said, yes, I know all this; stop treating me like I'm an uneducated child.

I apologise, that was not my intention!


After a good 15 years of struggling, resulting in eventual mental ill-health, I might add, I had to really take a look at my life and wonder if this is what God really would have wanted to me to do with his gift of life - end it.

We are all made in the image of God. I want to be equal. And in this world, with this hegemony, I will never be, despite what cloudy saccharine nets my retractors throw over me .

The Church says that the State and the private individual may not treat the person with homosexual orientation unjustly. Nor may anyone deprive these individuals of the same rights that other people have: employment, housing, education, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, political expression and participation in the daily life of society.

As Catholics we are bound to spread the good news as handed down by the apostles, and that is what we try to do here, though sometimes we may appear to come across as holy-than-thou - believe me we are all sinners.

I will pray that you will overcome your struggles, and that the Holy Spirit will guide you.

God Bless.

Keylem

Asry. When I first got married, I wanted so much to have chilren, then it turned out we couldn't have any naturally. I too had to struggle with Church teaching in regards IVF. I anguished over that, and yet wanted to be faithful to my Church. In the end we decided to adopt and prayed that we would be successful. (Not everyone is, for one reason or other.) Anyhow, we were, and now we have a beautiful son, who is now a young man, and I thank God for him. I personally know of Catholics who did use IVF, and would not judge them as I know first hand what anguish they had to go through.

Asry

Thank you Keylem. I apologise for my overly-defensive reaction last night; it's easy to misunderstand what people mean in text. The tone, I mean. I'm probably used to many Christians doing the whole holier-than-thou thing, and that would be colouring my reactions, unfairly on everyone else.

I know that the church has aceded that homosexual tendencies are possibly inherenet, but that they cannot be acted on. Love is love, you know? And in fairness, I know that people are supposed to be just and compassionate in regards to many things, but very few are in reality. In my own experience, I mean.

Keylem

That's okay Asry, I'm not much good at putting feelings to text at the best of times!

I'm saddened for the anguish you have to live with, and hope you will find a mutual peace with yourself and God eventually - Llfe is one looong struggle!

Asry

Keylem wrote: »

That's okay Asry, I'm not much good at putting feelings to text at the best of times!

I'm saddened for the anguish you have to live with, and hope you will find a mutual peace with yourself and God eventually - Llfe is one looong struggle!

Tis yeah We just have to do the best we can with what we have, you know?

Asry

I got the go-ahead from the youth ministry in my parish to attend World Youth Day! I'm scoping out the prices and things now. This can only be a good thing, if I go