Handicap adjustments in V-Par or matchplay competitions?

harryharhar

Hi all,

Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but I just recently joined a club and am looking forward to playing in competitions and was wondering about this? In a casual matchplay or V-Par round if you've lost the hole you can just lift your ball and move to the next one, but if the competitions count in handicap adjustments then you should obviously play on to try to get a bogey, otherwise the score for the hole would go down as a double bogey for handicap purposes - am I correct, or do these competitions not count for handicap adjustments?

Cheers

Andy

AldilaMan

In V-Par you pick up when you've lost the hole. There are only 3 outcomes in V-Par - Win the hole, Lose the Hole or Half the hole. The scoring is irrelevant in so far as you can win the hole with a par, birdie or eagle but it's still only a win. Likewise a double bogey or worse is still only a loss. The scoring almost always mirrors stableford as in if you finish 4 up in V-Par it's nearly alway the same as 40pts (36+4) if you do a countback in stableford terms unless you're shooting lots of birdies and lots of scratches. Finally, yes these scores do count for handicap adjustment.

LuckyGent88

well in my club a V-Par competition will still have the usual standard scratch but it will be put as level or 1 up. a bogey,double,triple bogey are only 1 loss so it doesnt matter the score on the hole.

In relation to matchplay, it will depend on what handicap you are and where you inish that will determine how much you get cut. For instance i am a 5 handicper who recently won a 4ball matchplay competition but was not cut at all due to my low handicap while our opponents were cut who were off 12 & 15 respectively. Dont ask me the exact calculations on how it is done or the handicap ranges however.

harryharhar

But what if, for example, you don't get a shot on a par 4 and you've already hit 4 shots? In this case you've lost the hole, but if you pick your ball up then your score (as far as handicap adjustments go) will be recorded as 6 for that hole, when in fact you could have finished the hole off for a bogey?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems if these competitions count for handicap adjustments then you should only pick up once you've missed a bogey opportunity, regardless of whether the hole was already lost or not...

AldilaMan

harryharhar wrote: »

But what if, for example, you don't get a shot on a par 4 and you've already hit 4 shots? In this case you've lost the hole, but if you pick your ball up then your score (as far as handicap adjustments go) will be recorded as 6 for that hole, when in fact you could have finished the hole off for a bogey?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems if these competitions count for handicap adjustments then you should only pick up once you've missed a bogey opportunity, regardless of whether the hole was already lost or not...

V-Par is NOT stableford. It is a competition format in it's own right. The object of the game is to play the course. When I have a put for par where I have no shot, it is a put for a half so I'm never short with the last throw of the dice. If it goes in, then I halved the hole otherwise I pick up. Likewise if you birdie or par a hole that you have a shot on it makes no difference to your score on the hole or the handicap adjustment. It's simply a win on that hole. Stableford is not the be all and end all of golf. V-Par is a different animal in it's scoring so you do not try to play or think stableford when playing this format. If you have a ten foot birdie put (with a shot on the hole), you have 2 putts for a win so take them both. Don't be a hero going for the birdie and knock it 4 foot by the hole cos the birdie wont improve your score in V-Par.

AldilaMan

harryharhar wrote: »

But what if, for example, you don't get a shot on a par 4 and you've already hit 4 shots? In this case you've lost the hole, but if you pick your ball up then your score (as far as handicap adjustments go) will be recorded as 6 for that hole, when in fact you could have finished the hole off for a bogey?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems if these competitions count for handicap adjustments then you should only pick up once you've missed a bogey opportunity, regardless of whether the hole was already lost or not...

If the standard scratch of your course is 36 then in V-Par terms this is level or if the CSS is 37 this would be 1 up. If you finish 3 up where the CSS is level you will be cut 3 x .1 (or .2, .3 .4 depending on your class)

harryharhar

AldilaMan wrote: »

V-Par is NOT stableford. It is a competition format in it's own right. The object of the game is to play the course. When I have a put for par where I have no shot, it is a put for a half so I'm never short with the last throw of the dice. If it goes in, then I halved the hole otherwise I pick up. Likewise if you birdie or par a hole that you have a shot on it makes no difference to your score on the hole or the handicap adjustment. It's simply a win on that hole. Stableford is not the be all and end all of golf. V-Par is a different animal in it's scoring so you do not try to play or think stableford when playing this format. If you have a ten foot birdie put (with a shot on the hole), you have 2 putts for a win so take them both. Don't be a hero going for the birdie and knock it 4 foot by the hole cos the birdie wont improve your score in V-Par.

I understand the concept of V-Par and I actually really like it (and matchplay). I'm just confused as to how handicap adjustments are calculated from it.

I always thought handicap adjustments are made by taking the CSS from your (adjusted) strokes, then adjusting up 0.1 if outside the buffer zone or down depending on how many shots under you are and what category you're in. In the case of playing V-Par, this obviously can't happen if you're picking up because you could be picking up when still in with the chance of a bogey.

Is there some other way handicap adjustments are calculated for V-Par competitions? The GUI/CONGU website just mentions the CSS/adjusted strokes method above which obviously works for strokeplay and stableford but not V-Par...

harryharhar

AldilaMan wrote: »

If the standard scratch of your course is 36 then in V-Par terms this is level or if the CSS is 37 this would be 1 up. If you finish 3 up where the CSS is level you will be cut 3 x .1 (or .2, .3 .4 depending on your class)

Ah - exactly what I was wondering! Cheers!

harryharhar

AldilaMan wrote: »

If the standard scratch of your course is 36 then in V-Par terms this is level or if the CSS is 37 this would be 1 up. If you finish 3 up where the CSS is level you will be cut 3 x .1 (or .2, .3 .4 depending on your class)

Although, just one more query - how does the buffer zone work then? For a category 3 golfer, for example, would the buffer zone for 0.1s be '3 down' or is that too simplistic??

mike12

Hi,
The adjustment is done on holes up so if the CSS is AS and u are 2 up then u are cut 2x.whatever if u win 2 holes with birdies where u have a shot u will still only be cut 2 times .3. Clear as Mud.
Mike

AldilaMan

harryharhar wrote: »

Although, just one more query - how does the buffer zone work then? For a category 3 golfer, for example, would the buffer zone for 0.1s be '3 down' or is that too simplistic??

That's exactly how simple it is.

The buffer zone for category 3 is 3 shots worse than standard scratch. i.e. If the standard scratch is 36pts then 33-36 is the buffer for not getting .1

In V-Par the equivalent would be 3 down -> level

GreeBo

AldilaMan wrote: »

In V-Par you pick up when you've lost the hole. There are only 3 outcomes in V-Par - Win the hole, Lose the Hole or Half the hole. The scoring is irrelevant in so far as you can win the hole with a par, birdie or eagle but it's still only a win. Likewise a double bogey or worse is still only a loss. The scoring almost always mirrors stableford as in if you finish 4 up in V-Par it's nearly alway the same as 40pts (36+4) if you do a countback in stableford terms unless you're shooting lots of birdies and lots of scratches. Finally, yes these scores do count for handicap adjustment.

I wouldnt agree with this at all. You get squat for a net bogey in v-par versus 1 point in s'ford. I have plenty of 1 pointers in v-par so my s'ford score would be very different than my v-par result.

aster99

Ya the scores aren't really alike. Couple weeks ago I was +1 in v par. But in that round I had a birdie on a hole where I had a shot, still only got a plus for it, in stableford it would have been 4 pts and my overall results would have been 38 pts

AldilaMan

AldilaMan wrote: »

In V-Par you pick up when you've lost the hole. There are only 3 outcomes in V-Par - Win the hole, Lose the Hole or Half the hole. The scoring is irrelevant in so far as you can win the hole with a par, birdie or eagle but it's still only a win. Likewise a double bogey or worse is still only a loss. The scoring almost always mirrors stableford as in if you finish 4 up in V-Par it's nearly alway the same as 40pts (36+4) if you do a countback in stableford terms unless you're shooting lots of birdies and lots of scratches. Finally, yes these scores do count for handicap adjustment.

GreeBo wrote: »

I wouldnt agree with this at all. You get squat for a net bogey in v-par versus 1 point in s'ford. I have plenty of 1 pointers in v-par so my s'ford score would be very different than my v-par result.

Read my post again (in bold). The point you make about 1 pointers is completely wrong. 1, 2 and 3 pointers are reflected exactly the same in V-Par and stableford. 18 x 1 points = 18 which would also be 18 down in V-Par. 18 x 2 points = 36 which would be level in V-Par. Each 3 pointer is 1 up in stableford or V-Par. It's only the scratches and 4 pointers (or more) that differ. QED

GreeBo

AldilaMan wrote: »

It's only the scratches and 4 pointers (or more) that differ. QED

Fair enough about the 1 pointers, but you dont have to be making "lots of birdies and lots of scratches" for your score to be different.
1 of each could be the difference between buffer zone and gaining/losing .1

To me thats pretty significant.

AldilaMan

GreeBo wrote: »

Fair enough about the 1 pointers, but you dont have to be making "lots of birdies and lots of scratches" for your score to be different.
1 of each could be the difference between buffer zone and gaining/losing .1

To me thats pretty significant.

1 birdie and 1 scratch cancel each other out in stableford (if you've a shot on the hole). We will have to agree to differ on your definition of significant. In Aster99's case 1 up = 37 points but he would have had 38 in stableford. Significant - not really. .1 up or down on your handicap - Significant - not in the scheme of things

GreeBo

AldilaMan wrote: »

1 birdie and 1 scratch cancel each other out in stableford (if you've a shot on the hole).

Right, but if you have 1 of them in a round thats enough to make your s'ford score different from your VPar result.

AldilaMan wrote: »

In Aster99's case 1 up = 37 points but he would have had 38 in stableford. Significant - not really. .1 up or down on your handicap - Significant - not in the scheme of things

It is if you are on the bubble (0.4 or 0.6), or if you are category 5 where it would be 0.1 up or 0.5 down. Half a shot is significant in most peoples book surely?

AldilaMan

GreeBo wrote: »

Right, but if you have 1 of them in a round thats enough to make your s'ford score different from your VPar result.



It is if you are on the bubble (0.4 or 0.6), or if you are category 5 where it would be 0.1 up or 0.5 down. Half a shot is significant in most peoples book surely?

If you feel gaining or losing 1 shot on your handicap is significant then so be it. In the scheme of things does it really matter. Some would argue a big difference between 9.4 and 9.5 single digits and all that crap but it's only a number at the end of the day and if you play often enough you'll be handicapped to your true playing ability anyway.