Taoiseach's 11 Nominees Announced for Seanad

Pride Fighter

Mr Eamon Coughlan
Director, Crumlin Children’s Medical & Research Foundation

Mr Jim Darcy
Teacher & Member of Louth County Council

Ms Aideen Hayden
Solicitor & Chairperson of Threshold

Ms Lorraine Higgins
Barrister

Mr Fiach MacConghail
Director of Abbey Theatre

Dr Martin McAleese
Dental Surgeon

Ms Mary Moran
Teacher

Ms Mary Ann O’Brien
Business Woman and Co Founder of Jack & Jill Foundation

Ms Marie Louise O’Donnell
Educationalist

Ms Jillian van Turnhout
Childrens Rights Alliance

Ms Katherine Zappone
Member of the Irish Human Rights Commission





Looks like a very weak 11. Roll on the abolition election. Dont see any Demosthenes like legislators there or anyone that will do a good job. Very disappointed, I thought Enda was going to give it a good send off.

Rebelheart

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Ms Marie Louise O’Donnell
Educationalist

Oh. My. Jesus.

Christ almighty, the sooner this jobs-for-the-boys club of parasites like Eoghan Harris and this pretentious nasal-sounding horsey clone of Avril Doyle that is Marie Louise O'Donnell is abolished the better. She was a complete sycophant of Kenny's prior to the election, much like Harris was of Ahern prior to the 2007 election. Plus ça change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Watch Fine Gael sabotage its own "campaign" to abolish the Seanad. After all, Kenny needs to keep his fellow politicians and supporters in jobs and if the Seanad does nothing else, it allows political debts to be paid. This is the one and only reason why it will be maintained by Fine Gael (or any other political party). Despite many self-serving claims to the contrary, its contribution to the civic life of Ireland is zero, especially since the development of the Oireachtas committee system in the late 1960s.

There are numerous unicameral legislatures across the world which do not demean democracy one whit. In the case of countries like Denmark, Finland and Norway, for example, democracy is strengthened and, more importantly, good policy making is strengthened.

amacachi

The president's husband has another job now, nice.

later12

Mary Louise O'Donnell?????

Baffling. Ugh, at least it's being reformed/ abolished.

RonMexico

Martin McAleese - how bloody convenient.

laughter189

cronyism is alive and well in Ireland

Annasopra

delighted that Katherine Zappone has been appointed. I think this is a very strong group of 11. You have people in the Arts, in advocacy for equality, children's rights, lgbt rights, a housing expert, a link to the unionist community - there are some great choices in there

The_Minister

I am surprised at the reactions here - this is probably the strongest Taoiseach's Eleven I've ever seen.

Brussels Sprout

I remember just after the election when Mary Loise O' Donnell was on the VB show. It was actually cringeworthy listening to her fawning over Enda. I was thinking to myself "Is this her campaign speech for one of Enda's picks?". It was embarrassing to listen to and I'm disgusted that she's made it on.

sceptre

Johnnymcg wrote: »

You have people in the Arts, in advocacy for equality, children's rights, lgbt rights, a housing expert, a link to the unionist community - there are some great choices in there

Indeed. Obviously there will be a few with which groups of people have problems (ideally there shouldn't but with particular interest groups that's often how it works) and unfortunately a small few generally not well-regarded (this really shouldn't be allowed to happen) but in a general sense - and I stress, a general sense - that's a well-rounded selection, fulfilling what was to have been one of the original purposes for the Seanad - to represent under-represented interest groups that should be represented and that would benefit the legislature and the country's people by being there.

jakdelad

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Mr Eamon Coughlan
Director, Crumlin Children’s Medical & Research Foundation

Mr Jim Darcy
Teacher & Member of Louth County Council

Ms Aideen Hayden
Solicitor & Chairperson of Threshold

Ms Lorraine Higgins
Barrister

Mr Fiach MacConghail
Director of Abbey Theatre

Dr Martin McAleese
Dental Surgeon

Ms Mary Moran
Teacher

Ms Mary Ann O’Brien
Business Woman and Co Founder of Jack & Jill Foundation

Ms Marie Louise O’Donnell
Educationalist

Ms Jillian van Turnhout
Childrens Rights Alliance

Ms Katherine Zappone
Member of the Irish Human Rights Commission





Looks like a very weak 11. Roll on the abolition election. Dont see any Demosthenes like legislators there or anyone that will do a good job. Very disappointed, I thought Enda was going to give it a good send off.

dentists ,barristers,teachers,directors
do these people really reflect mainsteam irish society?? no
member of the travelling community , no unemployed person
no single parents,
all well heeled , you scratch my back .crowd
same ould story
the cronyism continues
i thought fine gael were all for getting rid of the senate
if thats the case why appoint anyone????

gizmo555

jakdelad wrote: »

dentists ,barristers,teachers,directors
do these people really reflect mainsteam irish society?? no
member of the travelling community , no unemployed person
no single parents,

In what way would a senator from the travelling community be more "mainstream" than, say, a teacher?

Travellers made up only 0.5% of the population in the 2006 census. There were actually nearly four times as many teachers as travellers.

Einhard

Rebelheart wrote: »

Watch Fine Gael sabotage its own "campaign" to abolish the Seanad. After all, Kenny needs to keep his fellow politicians and supporters in jobs and if the Seanad does nothing else, it allows political debts to be paid. This is the one and only reason why it will be maintained by Fine Gael (or any other political party). Despite many self-serving claims to the contrary, its contribution to the civic life of Ireland is zero, especially since the development of the Oireachtas committee system in the late 1960s.

Why not give them a chance to effect their proposals before condemning them? Seriously, the Seanad is rightly condemned as not fit for purpose, and its abolition is regularly demanded. Yet when a party proposes to do exactly that, they'd condemned anyway.

There are numerous unicameral legislatures across the world which do not demean democracy one whit. In the case of countries like Denmark, Finland and Norway, for example, democracy is strengthened and, more importantly, good policy making is strengthened.

Exactly, and the government is proposing just that. What are you complaining about?

The_Minister wrote: »

I am surprised at the reactions here - this is probably the strongest Taoiseach's Eleven I've ever seen.

My thoughts exactly. I don't see the cronyism that seems so patently obvious to everyone else (with one possible exception). I think people just like complaining about politicians, no matter their actions.

jakdelad

gizmo555 wrote: »

In what way would a senator from the travelling community be more "mainstream" than, say, a teacher?

Travellers made up only 0.5% of the population in the 2006 census. There were actually nearly four times as many teachers as travellers.

by the fact that there isint one
when was the last traveller senator???? remind me
so .5 percent of population dont matter???
because they happen to be travellers???? they dont need any representation??
theres over 400,000 unemployed ,
why is there not a representive from the national council of the unemployed.......
whats a dentist going to do????

later12

gizmo555 wrote: »

In what way would a senator from the travelling community be more "mainstream" than, say, a teacher?

Travellers made up only 0.5% of the population in the 2006 census. There were actually nearly four times as many teachers as travellers.

Because teachers are already quite well represented as are the professions generally.

The point of the Seanad, in any case, is not as a proportional vocational assignment project in itself. It wqas also founded with the intention of providing a voice to those who may not otherwise have one, and it is not too much of a stretch that someone representing the desperately under priveleged such as an advocate of the travelling community, the homeless community or other extraordinary and often forgotten people on the fringes might be given specific representation in the chamber.

ArtSmart

Rebelheart wrote: »

Oh. My. Jesus.

Christ almighty, the sooner this jobs-for-the-boys club of parasites like Eoghan Harris and this pretentious nasal-sounding horsey clone of Avril Doyle that is Marie Louise O'Donnell is abolished the better. She was a complete sycophant of Kenny's prior to the election, much like Harris was of Ahern prior to the 2007 election. Plus ça change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Watch Fine Gael sabotage its own "campaign" to abolish the Seanad. After all, Kenny needs to keep his fellow politicians and supporters in jobs and if the Seanad does nothing else, it allows political debts to be paid. This is the one and only reason why it will be maintained by Fine Gael (or any other political party). Despite many self-serving claims to the contrary, its contribution to the civic life of Ireland is zero, especially since the development of the Oireachtas committee system in the late 1960s.

There are numerous unicameral legislatures across the world which do not demean democracy one whit. In the case of countries like Denmark, Finland and Norway, for example, democracy is strengthened and, more importantly, good policy making is strengthened.

and hard to stomach. very disappointing. ( I remember she nearly exploded when Mike Wallace announced he ws running - she was worried, correctly FG might lose a seat/votes because of it.) first minus point, enda.

(the rest i have no prob with)

GalwayAnnie

I think it is a very good selection, and while I do believe it is best for the Senate to be abolished, at least Enda has tried to get a better mix and move away from political cronyism.

Annasopra

jakdelad wrote: »

whats a dentist going to do????

Utilise his links with the loyalist community and the peace process

expectationlost

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Utilise his links with the loyalist community and the peace process

he already did that as the presidents husband doesn't need to be senator or any official political position to do it obviously

Annasopra

expectationlost wrote: »

he already did that.

The peace process is still ongoing!

expectationlost

Johnnymcg wrote: »

The peace process is still ongoing!

well ex presidents and their spouses it seems retain influence after the leave office so why does he have to be a senator?

Annasopra

expectationlost wrote: »

well ex presidents and their spouses it seems retain influence after the leave office so why does he have to be a senator?

No - you misunderstand my point; I'm saying he can bring his experiences of the peace process and links with loyalists to his work in the Seanad

later12

expectationlost wrote: »

well ex presidents and their spouses it seems retain influence after the leave office so why does he have to be a senator?

Because the state would presumably rather that McAleese does not have to return to dental practice, or other private interests, for his personal financial income. The state presumably considers that given the effort he has made and the contacts he has built in Northern Ireland, this would be a loss to the peace process. I think that is understandable.

expectationlost

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0613/mcaleesem.html

Dr McAleese has been involved in some of the most controversial work. He forged links with loyalist paramilitaries.

He often persuaded wealthy businessmen in the Republic to fund community projects in loyalist areas.

what a skill, we'll miss that, with this and the ycyc 300k he seems like just a bagman

later12

expectationlost wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0613/mcaleesem.html

He often persuaded wealthy businessmen in the Republic to fund community projects in loyalist areas.

what a skill, we'll miss that, with this and the ycyc 300k he seems like just a bagman

You seem to ignore the interplay that appears to exist between economic conditions and sectarian violence. Socioeconomic variables like economic inequality and disadvantage have been shown to have strong positive effects on political violence and gang culture. This has been repeatedly demonstrated with black communities in the United States.

By forging ahead with private investment into unionist and loyalist areas, not only might Dr McAleese have shifted perceptions in these areas with respect to Irish people from the south, but also improved community welfare and so diminished the negative effects that economic inequality may have upon political violence in Northern Ireland.

i was actually quite sceptical about Dr McAleese's appointment initially, but that was because I only vaguely knew about his connections with the unionist community, and Your Country Your Call, which I thought was pretty dreadfully handled. Nevertheless having educated myself a bit on his career, I actually find myself in complete support of his appointment to the Seanad.

expectationlost

later10 wrote: »

You seem to ignore the interplay that appears to exist between economic conditions and sectarian violence. Socioeconomic variables like economic inequality and disadvantage have been shown to have strong positive effects on political violence and gang culture. This has been repeatedly demonstrated with black communities in the United States.

By forging ahead with private investment into unionist and loyalist areas, not only might Dr McAleese have shifted perceptions in these areas with respect to Irish people from the south, but also improved community welfare and so diminished the negative effects that economic inequality may have upon political violence in Northern Ireland.

i was actually quite sceptical about Dr McAleese's appointment initially, but that was because I only vaguely knew about his connections with the unionist community, and Your Country Your Call, which I thought was pretty dreadfully handled. Nevertheless having educated myself a bit on his career, I actually find myself in complete support of his appointment to the Seanad.

yes everybody knows the uda hardmen were bought off (im sure the money will trickle down from them, not) and mcaleese was the bagman.

Raging_Ninja

expectationlost wrote: »

yes everybody knows the uda hardmen were bought off (im sure the money will trickle down from them, not) and mcaleese was the bagman.

Dr. McAleese has done a lot of good work in NI for the peace process. It takes a special kind of person to work with the people who burned him out of his home.

Besides, whats wrong with buying them off with jobs? Its better and cheaper than having them blow stuff up and then trying hammer them into the ground.

Making him a senator gives him an official standing with the government that would otherwise be lost when we get a new President.

gizmo555

later10 wrote: »

Because teachers are already <i>quite well </i>represented as are the professions generally.<br />

That's beside the point, which was the preposterous suggestion that a traveller should have been nominated, because teachers don't represent "mainstream" Irish society, but travellers do.

jakdelad

gizmo555 wrote: »

<br />
<br />
That's beside the point, which was the preposterous suggestion that a traveller should have been nominated, because teachers don'
t represent "mainstream" Irish society, but travellers do.

why would it be so preposterous to nominate a traveller???
you have issues with travellers?????
teachers are more represented in the senate than travellers
or the unemployed, or the lone parents or the poor.............


anyway they dont do anything
the senate is about as usefull as tits on a boar

gizmo555

jakdelad wrote: »

why would it be so preposterous to nominate a traveller???
you have issues with travellers?????

I have no issues with travellers, and if any are elected to the Dáil or nominated to the Senate, more power to them.

However, you clearly have issues with basic arithmetic if you think that travellers as a group reflect mainstream Irish society more than, for example, teachers.

SamuelFox

Two things really disappoint me about the list – firstly the fact that nobody really knows who these people are, and worse, can’t be arrsed finding out. Most of the discussion here is on Martin McAleese, who’s had a lot of TV coverage lately with the visits. Hence, people “know” about his work with the Loyalists in the North. If the Seanad appointments were a month later we wouldn’t have anything to say, because we wouldn’t know anything.
To me, this highlights the lack of an investigative media in Ireland. Over Christmas I read “Who Really runs Ireland” by Matt Cooper, and its feckin amazing the things about people that are widely known in the right circles, but never make it into print because we don’t have that culture of investigation. Instead we make do with what the PR people release to the media, who helpfully regurgitate it. In this case, for example, we know that one of the nominees runs a chocolate company, but nothing about her influences or politics. The same goes for the other nominees - who are they? Can we have some analysis of what these people will bring to the house? Why were they chosen? Who are they married to/work with/socialise with? We have answers to some of these but its very piecemeal.

The other, maybe more relevant point is the appointment by Labour of two failed General Election candidates – Mary Moran and Lorraine Higgins. I don’t know anything about Mary Moran, except that given that she’s an unsuccessful Dáil candidate, she’s probably not suitable for the Seanad, and the same goes for Lorraine Higgins.
I can recall Lorraine Higgins from her run for Galway County Council a few years ago, under the teeth-grating “I win, you win” slogan – basically the incredibly naive and arrogant belief that all the problems could be laid at the door of the current crop, and all it would take to fix everything would be to let Lorraine at the problem. In time honoured fashion this independent was snapped up by Labour as a sweeper for Colm Keaveney in Tuam, and lo and behold we find her in the Seanad, despite election to the Dail or even Galway County Council being beyond her.
I don’t want to personalise this (and in fairness anything that moves the Labour centre of gravity westwards is a good thing) and I don’t know much about Lorraine Higgins, but I have a real problem with parties using the Seanad as a launching pad for Dail candidates. Fianna Fail were particularly bad at this – to give just two examples, in the last Seanad, Senator James Carroll (Louth) and Brian O’Domhaill (Donegal) both had “constituency offices” despite neither having a constituency. This shameless massaging in advance of a Dail run, at public expense, attracted no comment. Lorraine Higgins and Mary Moran may well be statesmen who deserve a chance to legislate, but somehow I doubt that.
The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Annasopra

SamuelFox wrote: »

Two things really disappoint me about the list – firstly the fact that nobody really knows who these people are, and worse, can’t be arrsed finding out. Most of the discussion here is on Martin McAleese, who’s had a lot of TV coverage lately with the visits. Hence, people “know” about his work with the Loyalists in the North. If the Seanad appointments were a month later we wouldn’t have anything to say, because we wouldn’t know anything.
To me, this highlights the lack of an investigative media in Ireland. Over Christmas I read “Who Really runs Ireland” by Matt Cooper, and its feckin amazing the things about people that are widely known in the right circles, but never make it into print because we don’t have that culture of investigation. Instead we make do with what the PR people release to the media, who helpfully regurgitate it. In this case, for example, we know that one of the nominees runs a chocolate company, but nothing about her influences or politics. The same goes for the other nominees - who are they? Can we have some analysis of what these people will bring to the house? Why were they chosen? Who are they married to/work with/socialise with? We have answers to some of these but its very piecemeal.

I don't agree that no-one knows who the people on the list are - Katherine Zappone is a well known name because of the supreme court case she is taking; Eamon Coughlan would be well known because of his sporting prowess; people do know Marie Louise O Donnell for some reason.While a lot of the others are not household names as has been pointed out they do have quite broad range of experience in many areas. I think your point is actually more of a criticism of lazy journalism and lack of analysis - I was amazed for example at the Irish Times reporting wrongly that Katherine Zappone is Canadian.

imme

The_Minister wrote: »

I am surprised at the reactions here - this is probably the strongest Taoiseach's Eleven I've ever seen.

are you looking at the same list as everyone else
maybe there are 2 lists, stranger things have happened:P

Martin McAleese was a surprise for me, also Eamon Coughlan, I had them both down as FF'ers
The others are the usual sop candidates and friends of the party. Katherine Zappone is obviously an exception to this, given her nomination by Labour and challenge to the current marriage laws etc.

pog it

Shane Ross was the only justification for it and now that he's a TD good luck to it and to Eoghan Marie Louise O'Donnell Harris and her ilk.

I think this is one that the Irish might just get right and actually vote to abolish it. Fingers crossed.