My son does not want to do his Leaving cert through Irish

ping pong

My son is doing his Junior cert in June and attends an All Irish secondary school.
He is adamant that he does not want to do his Leaving Cert through Irish as he says it will be a waste of time. He is a bright kid and well able to do it but hates it.
His brother goes to the same school and will be doing his Leaving cert in June. He moans a bit about the school and doing it through Irish but in general was ok with it.
His younger sister will start in the school in September.
If he wants to change schools I think he will be very restricted in his choices.
He wants to do a business degree when he leaves school but this may change as he is young. He is very good at maths and says he does not want the hassle of learning the terms in Irish for any subject but especially maths and business.
I do not want him to change school as the principal and vice principal are very dedicated and most of the teachers are good.I think an A1 in Irish is a great start when he only need approx 430 points for a busines degree.This is apart from all the other advantages of Irish from a cultural perspective etc.
My questions are:
Did you go to an all Irish secondary school and were you happy doing exams in Irish or do you regret it?
Do you feel more favourably towards the Irish language now than when you were 15?
Any general advice?
Thanks in advance

username123

I didnt go to an all Irish secondary school nor do I feel more favourably towards the Irish language than I ever did - I have no real interest or ability in languages, I lean more towards science subjects.

General advice though - dont force him to do something he genuinely doesnt want to do or you may end up with a son who doesnt do as well as his abilities should allow for because he is resentful.

I had a friend in college who was forced down the all Irish route, he was massively resentful about it. He also didnt want to be in the college course he was in, his parents had insisted on it. What they got was not a son who followed their neat plan, they got a son who drank and partied his way through first year of college, failed and left on the boat to england to become a labourer. He sort of languished around in this manner for a number of years and in his late 20s decided to come back and do a course he was actually interested in (that his parents thought was a waste of time), did so, and finally got his career on track in his early 30s, doing something that made him happy, not something that made his parents happy. He doesnt have much of a relationship with them anymore. They never supported anything HE wanted to do, only the things they wanted him to do.

So I would say to listen to your sons wants in this, Id be more concerned that he does well at school overall than be concerned about this one aspect of his education.

cupan_tae

Interesting Dilemma !

When I was in school I did not have an option of an irish language school. Do they offer transition year in the Irish Language school ? Maybe consider this as an option and then he can re-evaluate as the year goes on.

Transition year was the best year of my life - gan dabht !

Good luck - and I suppose in the longer scheme of things it wont make a huge difference to things.....

seriouslysweet

I love it, am doing mine through Irish and find it such an advantage. Could he go to the Gaeltacht this year as a ****óir and get paid for it, he might see the benefit then?

Karma

none of my business really what happens with your family. But you should listen to your children, not strangers on the internet. I was a fluent Irish speaker in school and enjoyed it thru my teachers passion and instruction. He will find his way if you support him, don't lead him. but really, listen to him, not us. I feel your just looking for support in your way and not your sons way.:(

cupan_tae

Karma wrote: »

none of my business really what happens with your family. But you should listen to your children, not strangers on the internet. I was a fluent Irish speaker in school and enjoyed it thru my teachers passion and instruction.:(

Fair point .... but no harm looking at other peoples experiences even if strangers etc. Would it be worth speaking to some teachers etc? getting some feedback from them ? Is Gaeilge the problem or the actual school, class etc etc...

Karma wrote: »

He will find his way if you support him, don't lead him.

This I think is good advice, even if from a stranger on the internet

Anyway OP good luck, maybe post back outcome ? Good luck to them in their exams aswell !

Fuinseog

ping pong wrote: »

My son is doing his Junior cert in June and attends an All Irish secondary school.
He is adamant that he does not want to do his Leaving Cert through Irish as he says it will be a waste of time. He is a bright kid and well able to do it but hates it.
His brother goes to the same school and will be doing his Leaving cert in June. He moans a bit about the school and doing it through Irish but in general was ok with it.
His younger sister will start in the school in September.
If he wants to change schools I think he will be very restricted in his choices.
He wants to do a business degree when he leaves school but this may change as he is young. He is very good at maths and says he does not want the hassle of learning the terms in Irish for any subject but especially maths and business.
I do not want him to change school as the principal and vice principal are very dedicated and most of the teachers are good.I think an A1 in Irish is a great start when he only need approx 430 points for a busines degree.This is apart from all the other advantages of Irish from a cultural perspective etc.
My questions are:
Did you go to an all Irish secondary school and were you happy doing exams in Irish or do you regret it?
Do you feel more favourably towards the Irish language now than when you were 15?
Any general advice?
Thanks in advance

why send your son to an all Irish school?

Nuggles

He doesn't have to do exams in Irish, no matter what school he attends. So changing schools is totally unnecessary.

He might be taught in Irish, but if he feels he wants to do the exams in English he can.

You use the TINIEST amount of Irish to do maths. There are hardly any written word whatsoever in that exam, maybe two sentences, he's crazy to complain about that.

Business I remember being difficult in Irish, but I do remember that we were always told that the Irish you use in the exam doesn't have to perfect. I threw in a few English words, for the technical terms, in mine. Didn't bother me in the slightest.

Aard

When I was in school we were given the exam papers in Irish, and if we wanted the English version we could just ask for it on the day. A lot of people read the questions in English to make sure they understood, and then answered on the Irish paper. Your Irish doesn't have to be perfect in most cases, and a stray English word or two doesn't matter. Also, there's the nebulous "Irish points" thing, which I believe is equal to 10% of the marks you failed to get. That could mean maybe 5 points extra per subject.

Unless he really hates the school and has few friends, moving to an English school could do a lot more damage than good. He's only 15, so his Irish will improve, as well as his attitude towards it. I can't think of anybody in my old school who left because of difficulty with the language. There were a lot of people who were awful at it to say the least, but something like 95% still went on to third level. The only ones who left were those with rich parents who sent them to the Institute.

ping pong

Sorry for the delay in coming back to you-I was in Temple Street twice with one of the kids-all fine now.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Honestly, I do listen to my son, it is just that 15 year olds do not always make the best decisions.
My main worry was that the local school is dire but I have checked with another school a bit farther away and there may be a vacancy there in September 2012.
He will do transition year in his existing school-he wants to do that as there is a foreign trip that he wants to go on and we will revisit the issue next Autumn.
Thanks for letting me know that Maths is not too difficult in Irish but Business is as I did not do my Leaving Cert through Irish.
I am going to talk to the príomh oide in his school in September as well so I will let you know the outcome later in the year.
Thanks again for your replies

Aard

I did business for Junior Cert and, though I didn't like it as a subject, I can't say it was made any more difficult by using Irish words. Most of them you'd be using frequently enough in regular speech, and the other ones are basically loan-words from English.

I don't buy the Irish makes it harder thing. You use the words every day in class: it's impossible NOT to learn them! If he's good at maths, then he's probably reasonably bright. Bright students aren't bothered by the Irish in my experience.

pog it

Sometimes it just takes a few years after school and college even to appreciate the language. I bet he'll be grateful in years to come that he has a good grasp of Irish, so maybe just let him have his way for now?
I hated it in school, didn't do the diploma in Irish while I was doing my degree in college (which I think was such a missed opportunity; also as it was free) but I love it so much now. So yeah let him find it himself maybe, you've done all you can (and a great job to give them those chances).

mr_november

I can't really give much advice because I think so much of it is down to the lad himself as in why exactly is it that he wants out of it. Out of curiosity, is it just the doing-the-leaving-through-Irish that he has the problem with or could he just want to change school?

My main point though is that you are correct regarding 15-yr olds not always making the right decisions. Obviously I can't speak for your son but in general at 15 most students complain about school and would want to make it easier in whatever way they could. As in, "hmm...doing the LC through Irish is a bit too much like hard work, english would be easier so I want to do it through english!!" The more I think about this the more I think you should put your foot down and make the decision yourself (which I think you made when you sent him to that school in the first place) but then again I don't know if your son fits the stereotypical teenage image.
Can I add that I had absolutely no interest in Irish whatsoever until I was half way through fifth year. Up to then it was just another school subject to hate and it was only then, when nearly 18 that I fell in love with the language and I am now in college studying our great native language. :D

deirdremf

One of my children has just finished the junior cert.
She did the Irish version ofthe exams - but came home with the English language versions. So she was obviously given both papers.

I'd say, leave your son where he is, and tell him that he can choose which language to do the exam in on the day. His education will certainly not suffer as a result, and he may well thank you for it at some stage in the future. 15 year olds can be terribly contrary, it may well be that he is just looking for attention!:eek:

ruskey!

i am a parent of 2 who have completed secondary ed through gaeilge and 2 who are in the process still ! i often asked them if they were happy that they were in the school they were in and the fact that it was tré gaeilge - they have always said yes. i hoped for that answer but was prepared that i might not get it.
however for me as a parent the most important thing was that my children be happy in their school life - they spend a lot of time 5 days a week there - and in that zone at homework too. im not saying that life will be one big picnic - but in that main that they be happy in themselves.
just be sure that the dislike of the language is truly his main issue.( maybe it is - and if so you have to put yourself in his shoes too. would we like if we had to learn everything in a language other than our "mother tongue"?)
but is it just that? is it something else in the school? is it a problem with the attitude of others to him - even outside the school - because he is in a gaelscoil? was he in a primary gaelscoil ? are his friends in the same school ? try to find out for sure why all is not well with him there. we are not a one size fits all kind of people! good luck to you both -