pacquiao v marquez III nov 12th

digme

they are set to fight at 144 pounds...........

walshb

Yes, and Jaun gets 5 Million, and if he beats Manny the purse goes to 10
for the return. Makes sense for Manny to throw this bout. It's all about money.
Manny due to get 20 Million for this bout. So, I doubt he throws it, unless he is insanely greedy.

Spazdarn

He ain't throwing it anyways, he has to prove a more convincing winner than the previous contests

Wouldn't do his ego any good getting beat by a fella Mayweather schooled...

Boooourns

Marquez doesn't have a hope at 144lbs, getting sick of these ****e matchups involving Manny.

cowzerp

Marquez is too small compared to Manny now-this is going to be a bad beat down and i don't like it..

moneyman

Boooourns wrote: »

Marquez doesn't have a hope at 144lbs, getting sick of these ****e matchups involving Manny.

Who else is there for him out there apart from the guy who keeps ducking him?

Marquez is the one who wants this fight so bad, not Pacquiao. He can't be blamed for this one. I agree that he'll KO Marquez, but what's he meant to do, really? Marquez is very happy with the weight and all the other contractual agreements. Nothing more to be said. It's just a shame there aren't better fights out there.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Marquez is too small compared to Manny now-this is going to be a bad beat down and i don't like it..

I bet you go with Juan in the comp:)

If you go with Pac, I will go with Juan, because you haven't call a Pac win yet....

As for weights. Neither man is a welter naturally. Juan is naturally a little bigger than Manny
from what I see. And, regardless of the fact that Manny has been competing at higher weights of late.

nacho libre

Perhaps Pacman's punching power at this weight limit maybe the decisive factor?

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

I bet you go with Juan in the comp:)

If you go with Pac, I will go with Juan, because you haven't call a Pac win yet....

As for weights. Neither man is a welter naturally. Juan is naturally a little bigger than Manny
from what I see. And, regardless of the fact that Manny has been competing at higher weights of late.

Ha ha, no way
quick win for Manny here..

Barlivia

I'd give marquez a better shout of giving manny a fight than his last 5 opponents. He's fought him twice so he knows exactly the animal he's going in against, all the other guys were blown away by his speed and power saying they couldn't believe how fast he was but marquez knows exactly how fast and hard he hits so this will be nothing new to him

Boooourns

moneyman wrote: »

Who else is there for him out there apart from the guy who keeps ducking him?

Marquez is the one who wants this fight so bad, not Pacquiao. He can't be blamed for this one. I agree that he'll KO Marquez, but what's he meant to do, really? Marquez is very happy with the weight and all the other contractual agreements. Nothing more to be said. It's just a shame there aren't better fights out there.

Marquez said yes to everything because it's the only way he was getting the fight and he's going to make alot of money out of it. If he pushed for a lower weight he would have been told where to go as Manny doesn't need Juan to sell a fight. Marquez is getting the money he deserves but this is at a weight that clearly favours Manny and it's taking the p!ss out of boxing fans yet again.
He could have fought Marquez at 140lb! Roach has already said that's Mannys natural weight but no we get these sh!te catchweights yet again.

CorkMan

Today's boxers should try going a bit back to the 1940's. Not necessarily fighting every 2 weeks, but once every month would be good. Instead of waiting 7 bloody months.

Even Mike Tyson in the 80's fought every 2-3 months after winning the Championship. He fought 4 times in 1987 (including a fight at the end of November in 1986 and January 1988). If today's fighters went down that route the sport would be a lot better. Instead they fight 2 times top a year. Only in their debut year to they fight 8-10 times.

Profiler

CorkMan wrote: »

Today's boxers should try going a bit back to the 1940's. Not necessarily fighting every 2 weeks, but once every month would be good. Instead of waiting 7 bloody months.

Even Mike Tyson in the 80's fought every 2-3 months after winning the Championship. He fought 4 times in 1987 (including a fight at the end of November in 1986 and January 1988). If today's fighters went down that route the sport would be a lot better. Instead they fight 2 times top a year. Only in their debut year to they fight 8-10 times.

What makes you think the Boxers decide when the big fights are?

Seems to me if you have big fights every week or two or even once a month then it could be nigh on impossible to sell large PPV events.

I should clarify now that I have no evidence to support my view on this, it's all just my opinion.

However t it seems to me that if the big broadcasters can control when we "consume" then they can hype up fights and sell in large volume.

If the boxing fan is subject to big fights across the many weight divisions and many organising bodies on a frequent basis then there is the risk of fight hype fatigue.

I'd love to see more of the top fighters, more title bouts and more grudge fights a lot more regularly than we get now.

I just can see those who are making the money now go breaking something that isn't broken, from their perspective that is.

Daroxtar

Evil Manny, after forcing all these poor guys to come into the ring dehydrated now comes up with a masterplan....force his next opponent to come in overhydrated, soft and wet like a sponge. What a brilliant scheming genius.
Manny KO 9

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I bet you go with Juan in the comp:)

If you go with Pac, I will go with Juan, because you haven't call a Pac win yet....

As for weights. Neither man is a welter naturally. Juan is naturally a little bigger than Manny
from what I see. And, regardless of the fact that Manny has been competing at higher weights of late.

Exactly.

It's about time this bullsh!t of Manny being "bigger" than these lifelong lightweights and lightwelters is put to bed.

Do you people realise Manny was a world FLYWEIGHT champion????

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

Exactly.

It's about time this bullsh!t of Manny being "bigger" than these lifelong lightweights and lightwelters is put to bed.

Do you people realise Manny was a world FLYWEIGHT champion????

Manny has built lots of muscle on to move up divisions, he's not just going up without doing that like James Toney for example, he is bigger than Marquez in sheer muscle volume and will be too powerful for him now.

Marquez at this weight is in trouble and Manny/Roach know this.

strobe

moneyman wrote: »

Who else is there for him out there apart from the guy who keeps ducking him?

Ortiz, Berto, Zavek, Senchenko, Jackiewicz, Mike Jones, Aydin, Brook...

Yeah, that's just the Ring top ten. Any of them would be preferable to JMM though, and at 147, not whichever weight is chosen to take just enough out of them without it being overly obvious.

I like Pac, have for years, marvelous fighter. But fight a fukking current top fighter in the division, at the division weight, or hang up the gloves and stick to politics.

corny

strobe wrote: »

Ortiz, Berto, Zavek, Senchenko, Jackiewicz, Mike Jones, Aydin, Brook...

Yeah, that's just the Ring top ten. Any of them would be preferable to JMM though, and at 147, not whichever weight is chosen to take just enough out of them without it being overly obvious.

I like Pac, have for years, marvelous fighter. But fight a fukking current top fighter in the division, at the division weight, or hang up the gloves and stick to politics.

Its the way boxing goes these days unfortunately. Fighters work hard in their twenties to earn recognition and when it comes their way they make it pay in their thirties. Manny is all about generating income now.

He has this choice. Fight a young hungry fighter with little following or fight a boxer passed his prime but will generate huge income. We'd all choose the easier fight with the bigger day in truth. I don't like it either but when you step back and look at it its perfectly understandable given the vast majority of the paying public don't know the difference.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Manny has built lots of muscle on to move up divisions, he's not just going up without doing that like James Toney for example, he is bigger than Marquez in sheer muscle volume and will be too powerful for him now.

Marquez at this weight is in trouble and Manny/Roach know this.

I see the point you are trying to make. But Manny has always been ripped and in tremendous shape no matter what weight he is at, 125-130-135-140-145.
Manny is NOW finished fighting at 140 and below. I don't see why he should go down that low to accommodate anyone. Marquez wants this, then do as he is told.

Manny is not bigger. He simply looks the part, more so than Juan, and always did, aesthetically speaking.
Juan is in trouble at any weight I think. Manny is right now the better man, and by a bit.

BTW, Guerrero and Khan have been campaigning at lower weights than Manny. Anyone seriously going
to say that if they met Manny at 145 that Manny is the bigger man physically?

strobe

corny wrote: »

Its the way boxing goes these days unfortunately. Fighters work hard in their twenties to earn recognition and when it comes their way they make it pay in their thirties. Manny is all about generating income now.

He has this choice. Fight a young hungry fighter with little following or fight a boxer passed his prime but will generate huge income. We'd all choose the easier fight with the bigger day in truth. I don't like it either but when you step back and look at it its perfectly understandable given the vast majority of the paying public don't know the difference.

If that is true how greedy exactly do you have to be though? Manny Pacquiao isn't going to end up starving and homeless feeding his kids cat food or, ye know, have to forgo buying two black Bently's to match his new black shoes ever ever ever again, ever...

Do people really need to make 50 million rather than 20 million and throw their pride and dignity into a pile of horse sh1t for the privilege?

I can understand some bankrupt, one time somebody taking the easy pay off fight rather than challenging themselves but a multi-millionaire pulling the same thing is... ... unseemly. Where's the fukking self respect? It is a sport, a contest, a challenge. Money is wonderful and it means a lot but how much do you have to have before you stop debasing yourself for it? Ugghh...

megadodge

cowzerp wrote: »

Manny has built lots of muscle on to move up divisions, he's not just going up without doing that like James Toney for example, he is bigger than Marquez in sheer muscle volume and will be too powerful for him now.

Marquez at this weight is in trouble and Manny/Roach know this.

Manny hasn't put any muscle on IMO. He's still the same ripped fighter he always was, he just doesn't have to diet the way all fighters do and yet he still comes in way under the welter limit. Have you seen how small he looked compared to natural welters Margarito and Clottey?

Plus if you're to follow your logic, then these lower weight fighters who complain (correctly) about being paid peanuts compared to fat heavyweights should just put on a load of muscle to gain weight and dollars.
Why don't they do that?
Because they're not naturally big enough.
Putting on muscle doesn't make you as strong as naturally bigger men.

I also have to shake my head in amazement at times at how people's memories just stop working. When Oscar Dela Hoya signed up to fight Manny (who had just had his first ever fight at LIGHTWEIGHT) the boxing world was almost unanimous in their criticism of DE LA HOYA (me included) as it was regarded as a cynical money-spinning exercise for Oscar against a much smaller man. Roll on a few years and now PACQUIAO is the one being criticised for that exact same fight!!! I mean WTF??????

With regard to the Marquez fight, size will have nothing to do with it (Marquez is actually naturally bigger). You have a fella with a style that Manny has major problems with. Mark my words this will be a seriously hard fight for Manny who might get the benefit of the doubt from the judges the way he did in their previous two fights.

corny

strobe wrote: »

If that is true how greedy exactly do you have to be though? Manny Pacquiao isn't going to end up starving and homeless feeding his kids cat food or, ye know, have to forgo buying two black Bently's to match his new black shoes ever ever ever again, ever...

Do people really need to make 50 million rather than 20 million and throw their pride and dignity into a pile of horse sh1t for the privilege?

I can understand some bankrupt, one time somebody taking the easy pay off fight rather than challenging themselves but a multi-millionaire pulling the same thing is... ... unseemly. Where's the fukking self respect? It is a sport, a contest, a challenge. Money is wonderful and it means a lot but how much do you have to have before you stop debasing yourself for it? Ugghh...

Unfortunately most people's wants will always far exceed their needs. Basic economic principle that. If the price i'd have to pay for earning $30 million more was your ire i'd gladly accept. With respect, you mean **** all to Manny Pacquiao and like i said if theres an easier and more financially attractive option open to a man with 4 kids and political aspirations he's gonna take it. You don't have to like it. It is understandable though.

You're only focusing on the money though and not enough on the fact that Manny has been through the ringer. He is an eight-division world champion and the first boxer in history to win ten world titles yet you're talking about self respect. He's earned his dues and you shouldn't forget it.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Mark my words this will be a seriously hard fight for Manny who might get the benefit of the doubt from the judges the way he did in their previous two fights.

They're marked. I think it will be a comfy win for Manny this time around.
Manny is after improving a hell of a lot, and Juan has gone backwards.
Style wise Juan may offer problems, but physically, as in speed and power and
all that, I think Manny is at this time, far ahead.

I will be back to you on Nov 13th.

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

Manny hasn't put any muscle on IMO. He's still the same ripped fighter he always was, he just doesn't have to diet the way all fighters do and yet he still comes in way under the welter limit. Have you seen how small he looked compared to natural welters Margarito and Clottey?

Plus if you're to follow your logic, then these lower weight fighters who complain (correctly) about being paid peanuts compared to fat heavyweights should just put on a load of muscle to gain weight and dollars.
Why don't they do that?
Because they're not naturally big enough.
Putting on muscle doesn't make you as strong as naturally bigger men.

Manny has put on serious muscle mass, he was a scrawn bag when he was at the lighter weights!!

Gaining muscle the right way and training for speed while doing it does make you stronger and Manny comes in as Strong fit and fresher than most his opponents, Most people cant bulk up like he did naturally and thats why people have questioned him about drugs etC

On the been as strong as naturally larger opponents, that would be correct in most cases, not here though.

everyone is different and he does not be weaker than his opponents.

Spazdarn

strobe wrote: »

Ortiz, Berto, Zavek, Senchenko, Jackiewicz, Mike Jones, Aydin, Brook...

Yeah, that's just the Ring top ten. Any of them would be preferable to JMM though, and at 147, not whichever weight is chosen to take just enough out of them without it being overly obvious.

I like Pac, have for years, marvelous fighter. But fight a fukking current top fighter in the division, at the division weight, or hang up the gloves and stick to politics.

Disagree with that list on pretty much every name bar one...

Ortiz - Yeah, it'd be interesting but Manny would still beat him convincingly
Berto - Is a HBO driven hype job, he's nowhere near the standard to fight Manny

The rest aren't big enough names for them to waste their time, and some of the are nowhere near ready, or may never be ready for a fight of this magnitude.

The guys that should be fighting Manny in the next year or so are Khan, Bradley and Ortiz. I'd also love to see Paul Williams come back and fight Manny, it'd probably be a terrible fight stylistically but Paul Williams is huge and comes to fight. The beating he got off of Martinez and him moving up and staying in that weight means it's unlikely.

There really isn't any other legitimate option bar Mayweather... but Marquez deserved the chance, considering a lot of people think he won both of those fights... it's the only fight that really makes sense

clubwelly

I don't care what's been set weight wise. This will be class cos Marquez will be coming out there to win. Floyd couldn't knock him out and weighed in at 146/147 pounds even though it was a catchweight of 145.
Watch the previous two fights and you'll see Marquez def has way more of a chance than anyone is giving him. Don't get me wrong I def think he will be tagged by Manny but Marquez will go out fighting

Spazdarn

Agreed Marquez is a much cleverer counter puncher than most of what Manny's faced previously so it will be a good fight but I think whatever way you look at it, Manny is in and around his peak physically, and Marquez is on the way down. So can't see anymore than a Pacman win from this

nacho libre

If Marquez is able to take Pacman's power at this weight, mark my words pacman will be in for a tough night.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

If Marquez is able to take Pacman's power at this weight, mark my words pacman will be in for a tough night.

Add in speed and work rate, and angles. More angles and ferocity than before.

Brad Goodman

Much as I love Marquez I see this going the same way as the third Pacquiao/Morales fight. Manny gets him out of their early. Also I'll bet that once Marquez tastes Manny's power he won't bitch out like Mosley. He'll go down swinging.

CharlesHaughey

I don't like how Pacquiao is regarded as the "1st" "8th" division champion in history. If makes him sounds like the greatest of all time. The reason he has "so many" belts and went through "so many" weight division is because there is a darn lot of divisions!

Henry Armstrong won the World Featherweight title, World Lightweight title and World Welterweight title, at a time when there were only 8 divisions in the sport, and IIRC only 8 titles. If Pacquiao was around back then it would have been impossible for him to win 8 divisions. But I feel in some boxing fans eyes (not specifically on this forum, i'm talking worldwide) they see "Pacman won 8 divisions, and is the 1st to do so, so he is the best ever", which is definitely not true, IMO. (and most certainly not following that logic)

Pacman could well be the greatest of this generation of boxers, but if he was around the time of Duran, SRL, Hagler and Hearns I doubt very much he would reign supreme about them all.