Teenagers firing at people passing by.

bullets

From the Limerick boards:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056273477

A lot of the residents in this area are older people and are constantly harassed by scum, now its scum wielding possibly airsoft guns. (I doubt its actual airguns their are firing at people being realistic)

~B

Silent Death

Last thing we need, hopefully the Garda get them soon before a paper gets hold of it. Last thing we need.

Was walking to the Spire yesterday from the bus stop and passed a checkpoint, shop right beside it had airsoft guns on display right beside the checkpoint. Kinda odd with all the security but hey, sure they know what there doing

1man3letters

thanks for posting bullets

this is just bad, older people deserve respect and not to be harased like that (anyone acuatly, not just the elderly) and remembering the country we live in were excuses are looked for to ban things, this is def something i dont want to hear bein releated to airsoft .hope there caught and dealt with accordingly :mad:

Shiva

1man3letters wrote: »

this is just bad, older people deserve respect and not to be harased like that (anyone acuatly, not just the elderly) and remembering the country we live in were excuses are looked for to ban things, this is def something i dont want to hear bein releated to airsoft .hope there caught and dealt with accordingly :mad:

I'm gonna call my local TD and see can we get scumbags banned

bullets

seeing things like this really bugs me.

I love the freedom of being able to Own Airsoft guns without a licence or being
a member of a club but unfortunately that same privilege also is open for abuse
by people that would buy the guns and do things like this. They break the Law
the gardai catches/arrests them etc but the Public image / Joe Soap image
of arisoft gets tarnished.

Its very hard to explain or defend to Anti-gun or anti-airsoft type of people
or Joe Duffy like callers when ejjits/scum/irresponsible people do something stupid like this.

~B

1man3letters

Shiva wrote: »

I'm gonna call my local TD and see can we get scumbags banned

i see what you did there....nice

Rasherz

Seeing the post initially it sounded like misguidance, before it was legal we used to shoot eachother out and about with springers (stupid i know) but when it became legal and i saw it as a real sport things changed and that stopped. Not so much us taking pot shots at each other with dodgey aviators but on a field with proper face protection like it should be. If a lot were shown this side of the guns (as really the guns are the 1st attraction you see) i think we could save the majority of trouble, i only found out about airsoft by fluke on the net and a lot of people are genuinely looking for somewhere to play and never heard of it so this is the result. Never going to stop scangers like that though because the guards are lazy w*nkers :mad: Had some traveller try mug me with an airsoft device, just pulled the thing off the little git and put my foot through it. Sh!t like this is what gets us in trouble...rant over :pac:

DoBhrionn

I feel the only way to solve this is to have some sort of licence implemented. And the sites which you play at regularly to sign off on it, as well as the Gardaí. This would hopefully lower the amount who disrespect the use of an airsoft gun.
One reason as to why I want this to happen is that not too long ago I past a couple of guys in my estate messing around with airsoft pistols (showing off and firing in all directions etc.). I told them what might happen if they continued, and the usual "f*** off" followed by the not-so-friendly middle finger.
Pissed off by this, I soon called the local Gardaí. It's safe to say a few less eejits playing with something they shouldn't....for now anyway....

I'll fight (not physically) to keep airsoft in this country. As it's the only bit of exercise I do and I'm addicted to it.

Private Snafu

It will be impossible to implement... Airsoft kit isn't serialized, not to mention the extra workload it'll put on AGS. Besides anyone thats into shooting will tell you about the nightmare of attaining licenses :rolleyes:

Shiva

Licensing real firearms hasn't stopped them falling into the wrong hands. Why would airsoft be any different ?

Stercus Accidit

Well there are laws against that behavior, why would you want more laws when you ignore the current ones? Call the gardai, they've plenty of leverage against this behavior.

MonkeyGuy

Plus there's plinkers who don't have an interest in skirmishing. With that licence thing they'd have to go to a site just for the sake of getting something signed.

I think the sport should be made more well-known and more accessible, so that if someone finds themselves with an airsoft gun, they know exactly what it entails.

bullets

DoBhrionn wrote: »

I feel the only way to solve this is to have some sort of licence implemented. And the sites which you play at regularly to sign off on it, as well as the Gardaí. This would hopefully lower the amount who disrespect the use of an airsoft gun.

The licensing system for real firearms is a disaster as it is. :eek:
introducing airsoft into that system it would just simply break!

Not sure how they currently deal with Paintball guns
as they are considered a firearm and there is a section
on the Garda forms for applying for a license specifically
for Paint Ball markers and they dont have serial numbers.

Also there is a fee 80 Euros per gun also for every 3 years!!!!!!!


The very reason I started collecting airsoft guns
was that it was too much of a pain to collect de-activated guns or to import
a fun plinking real gun due to Laws/restrictions and an archaic laws and hoops people have to jump through because of the "look" or function of a certain guns.
I own two firearms and had intended before I started collecting airsoft to import and licance my own FAL(in semi) either in .308 or .22LR
after looking at all the hassle I decided not to,
and then was going to try and purchase a de-activated gun as a wall hanger!
but stumbled across airsoft by accident lucky me! not lucky for the wallet.

Can you imagine me with ~70/80 or more airsoft guns going to the local Garda station trying to get something as simple as a letter of permission for each and every one of them! or needing to pay 80 Euros licence fees for each gun I own No WAY. The Gardai would think I'm some sort of nutter.
I dont think they would get the argument that some people collect stamps and coins other people collect things that look like guns.

Plus with all the buying/selling/trading of airsoft gear as it is, then parts,
stuff people have had in the wardrobe for years etc etc would make it impossible to license or ensure everyone had permission for the gardai
Poor Guards are already under resourced as it is and the fellas that
look after things gun related on a local basis are doing it on top of all their
other duties and sometimes lack the correct knowledge on the subject matter they are dealing with.


~B

Arkslippy

The licensing is just bringing attention to the people who play on sites and behave themselves gearwise.

If people act the eejit out and about with guns, then they will be dealt with by the authority, the UK excuse of "im registered and on my way to a game" doesn't apply if you are sitting on a wall in an estate being a scumbag. You are in public with something considered a firearm.

RebelSniper

Its the fools and idiots like that, that are going to get Airsoft banned...

MonkeyGuy

Arkslippy wrote: »

The licensing is just bringing attention to the people who play on sites and behave themselves gearwise.

If people act the eejit out and about with guns, then they will be dealt with by the authority, the UK excuse of "im registered and on my way to a game" doesn't apply if you are sitting on a wall in an estate being a scumbag. You are in public with something considered a firearm.

Think you might what to change that bit mate, it's not a firearm unless it's over 1 joule.

Puding

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

Think you might what to change that bit mate, it's not a firearm unless it's over 1 joule.

if you brandish a rif in public it is classed as a firearm in the eyes of the law, there is no turning around and saying well it is a toy as its under a joule, if it looks like a firearm then its treated as a firearm

MonkeyGuy

Puding wrote: »

if you brandish a rif in public it is classed as a firearm in the eyes of the law, there is no turning around and saying well it is a toy as its under a joule, if it looks like a firearm then its treated as a firearm

I have never heard that but I'm glad I did now! Thank you!

Airsoft Reloded

This kind of thread pops up all the time, its not gonna be banned. Its to late to ban airsoft now, theres to much money being made and it would force a fanatical sport and thousands of "replica firearms" underground where they would less control.

The best thing to do would be to ignore instances like this because they are not airsoft related and allow the garda to investigate like every crime.

Arkslippy

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

This kind of thread pops up all the time, its not gonna be banned. Its to late to ban airsoft now, theres to much money being made and it would force a fanatical sport and thousands of "replica firearms" underground where they would less control.

The best thing to do would be to ignore instances like this because they are not airsoft related and allow the garda to investigate like every crime.

What he said basically, to expand, if everytime a scumbag did something that got him arrested, got the connected sport or activity in trouble...

Farmers would not be allowed guns.
Hunters likewise.
Chefs have knives
Campers have hatchet..

Shiva

Seriously ?

You think the government wouldn't or couldn't ban airsoft if they felt like it, or if something happened that caused public outrage ? Dont kid yourselves - We'd be gone in a heartbeat.

It almost went in the UK a few years ago...it was only intensive lobbying that got an exemption for airsofters and re-enactors in the VCRA.

It looks like California are enacting laws to force all airsoft guns to be brightly coloured, and they have lots and lots of real guns and a bone fide gun culture over there.

Theres already a section of the Criminal Justice Act amendment that allows the Minister for Justice to sign a ministerial order banning airsoft on the books - all it will take is his signature, and for a motion to be put before Dail Eireann, and we're history. Do you honestly think any of our fine upstanding TDs would veto a proposed ban on airsoft if it cost them a vote ?

We need to be very careful how we're perceived, and we need to pull together to make sure we have a strong, unified voice.
And we most definitely dont need to get complacent.

Arkslippy

Shiva wrote: »

Seriously ?

You think the government wouldn't or couldn't ban airsoft if they felt like it, or if something happened that caused public outrage ? Dont kid yourselves - We'd be gone in a heartbeat.

It almost went in the UK a few years ago...it was only intensive lobbying that got an exemption for airsofters and re-enactors in the VCRA.

It looks like California are enacting laws to force all airsoft guns to be brightly coloured, and they have lots and lots of real guns and a bone fide gun culture over there.

Theres already a section of the Criminal Justice Act amendment that allows the Minister for Justice to sign a ministerial order banning airsoft on the books - all it will take is his signature, and for a motion to be put before Dail Eireann, and we're history. Do you honestly think any of our fine upstanding TDs would veto a proposed ban on airsoft if it cost them a vote ?

We need to be very careful how we're perceived, and we need to pull together to make sure we have a strong, unified voice.
And we most definitely dont need to get complacent.

I think you are being a bit over dramatic. Airsofters also have a vote to be lost and the power to lobby and protest the same as anyone else.

Also take into account and I know its not always the view, but most people in the dept of justice are intelligent people and aren't waiting with a pen just to wipe us out at the first opportunity. Any criminal act is generally investigated properly and unless there was clear connection between a criminal act and the established airsoft infrastructure its highly unlikely that something untoward could happen.

The California thing is coming from a different perspective, they are looking to ban black or realistic coloured guns because of a specific incident and similar where kids where confronted by armed police while out playing in a public place, one refused to drop his rif and was shot. The ban is on non coloured rifs, not the sport.

The ruling in the UK is an oddity, the coloured ones are available to anybody, while blacks are for skirmishes by registered owners on sites. Again, if you are in public with a coloured gun, police will assume that its a toy. It's easier to paint a real gun Orange than paint an airsoft gun black.

Shiva

Arkslippy wrote: »

Airsofters also have a vote to be lost and the power to lobby and protest the same as anyone else.

There are at the very most 1000 skirmishers in this country, and thats being optimistic. A fair number of them would be under eighteen if my perception of the market demographics is correct. And at the moment there is no unifying voice - The IAA isnt being supported, in that there arent enough people signing up. The last figure I heard was circa 150. If it came down to a lobbying effort, the authorities would look at the membership numbers for the governing body, and use that as their baseline figure for the popularity of the sport. They wont care about all the other players who didnt or wont join for idealogicial reasons, or just didnt bother.

Arkslippy wrote: »

Also take into account and I know its not always the view, but most people in the dept of justice are intelligent people and aren't waiting with a pen just to wipe us out at the first opportunity.

The Dept of Justice dont make policy. Dermot Ahearn decided a few years ago that handguns were evil and were to be banned. As a result, its impossible to get a new licence for a pistol over .22 calibre now - a decision reached by one man, based on his anti-gun bias and his willingness to piss off a substantial number of gun-owners for a short term political gain ( that being to be seen to be tough on crime). He also stated in the Dail at the time that airsoft would be banned too, and but for successful lobbying by the IAA, IASRA and a few individuals it would have been. As it is, the CJA amendment specifically put a measure in place for airsoft to be banned with little or no trouble.

Arkslippy wrote: »

Any criminal act is generally investigated properly and unless there was clear connection between a criminal act and the established airsoft infrastructure its highly unlikely that something untoward could happen.

The above makes complete sense from a logical point of view, but the problem is that the knee-jerk enacting of legislation isnt logical - its reactive and mob-pleasing. Look at how easily head shops were put out of business by playing on the anti-drug fears of the population. Unfortunately, we're always going to have the stigma of guns attached to us, just as head shops had the stigma of drugs attached to them. Politicians wont care about a few jobs being lost in the retailer or site sector, and the tax revenue generated from airsoft sales is a pittance.

Arkslippy wrote: »

<snip California and VCRA stuff>

Yeah, I know they are both different situations - the point I was making is that airsoft is being made or was made a scapegoat for other issues, either accidentally or by design.

I'm not trying to scaremonger or be dramatic, but I honestly think its naive to assume we're untouchable - We're anything but.

I'm hesitant to mention it here, because being Boards I'll be jumped on and told to cite a source (correctly too, I suppose), but the Farmleigh incident mentioned elsewhere while the Queen was in Ireland was just one of a couple of incidents involving airsoft at that time, and from what I've heard anecdotally, they are being treated pretty seriously.

Hopefully nothing untoward will happen, but we need to be vigilant, and we need to be seen to have a unified voice with numbers behind us.

Faolchu

alphshuffel wrote: »

Should inform their parents about their such bad actions as well as take it into the notice to the Police.

some parents couldnt give a rats ass. out my way theres one parent that purchased 3 springers for her kids aged between 5 & 10. every day i walk up the street and see more and more yellow (0.12g i think) BBs on the foot path, the little fools are out running on the street with the things and probably taking shots at cars and the neighbours cat. All because some sweet shop in the city right beside her bus stop is selling springers for €20+. my boss is the same, she bought one for her kid (14) coz his mates have them and they run about on the street. she didnt know that by using it in a public place like that the kids could get into serious trouble, and i assume the parents too. on the plus side i told here there are a few sites about that they could use that allow children/teenagers and she said she'd look further into it. not sure if that will happen.

I'm new to airsoft but has licensing of retailers ever been considered? i mean you need a license to sell beer why not alicense to sell springers and AEGs and such that way at least there might me better control on how they are sold.

Private Snafu

It's already been written in to law it's just waiting to be implemented now (same as the personal imports ban)

Airsoft Reloded

I didn't mean it couldn't be done Tony, obviously the government has the governmental powers to ban whatever they want. What I mean't is that it has gone to far now (legislation enacted and semi recognition by the sports council) and there is no realistic political solution to the fact that there are replica fire arms available to the public (the real thing isn't hard to get in certain areas either).

If they ban them they will get hit for banning toys while killing is on the rise and if the don't they'll get crap for leaving replicas out there while people are getting killed (but I've seen garages robbed by a guy with a hammer). The only things to look at are the economic aspects.

To ban airsoft would eliminate a huge (and growing) market, I don't think it will happen and the boards airsoft community always flipping out at the slightest perception of someone being bold with one of our devices doesn't help the situation.

MonkeyGuy

I think both of ye are right... Obviously they have the power to do so and the fact that it's not an overly popular sport, plus the fact that a lot of the public dislike it, means it would be very easy to do so.

However, for now at least, they have no moral right to do so. There are few incidents and most of them aren't as issue with the sport but rather with people with airsoft/pellet guns who have no interest on the sport, or even in the guns as a hobby. So, if they did ban it, then the Airsofting Community would have a reason to kick up a fuss.

I'd like to think that all of this is hypothetical, because if something like this did happen, no matter how hard we tried, we'd have no hope.

Arkslippy

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to idiots who shoot at passers by as such. They'd find something else.

It would probably drive the game underground for people on there own land with existing rifs

MonkeyGuy

Arkslippy wrote: »

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to idiots who shoot at passers by as such.

Exactly. Of course it's unfair if airsoft gets branded with this sort of stigma, but people need to realise that the RIFs aren't the problem. Those people are clearly not looking to do any good, they should be punished, not their tools. Because if it wasn't an airsoft gun, they'd find something else.

Guns don't kill people, gangsters do.

sliabh

Just thought I would pick up on one thing here

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

If they ban them they will get hit for banning toys

The reaction of the vast majority of "normal" people (relatives, non-airsofting friends) who see my airsoft guns is not "wow these are just toys" it is almost uniformly "these are ACTUALLY legal?"

Whatever the legislation actually says the perception of the public is that the things we are playing with are not toys.

Puding

you have to remember that these are not toys any more, they are RIFs and come into a class of there own

Toy = less than a joule but does not look like firearm to joe bloggs on the street

Airsoft Reloded

sliabh wrote: »

Just thought I would pick up on one thing here


The reaction of the vast majority of "normal" people (relatives, non-airsofting friends) who see my airsoft guns is not "wow these are just toys" it is almost uniformly "these are ACTUALLY legal?"

Whatever the legislation actually says the perception of the public is that the things we are playing with are not toys.

I know that dude, sure I run a site :pac: