Any thoughts on what I should do in this situation? (eircom)

Downlinz

I'm an eircom 8mb customer in Nenagh and have been for a number of years. My connection was fine up until the past month, no major changes happened in that time but since then I've been having intermittent problems where the DSL would drop. This tends to happen a number of times a day, nothing extreme but consistently 3-5 times per day lets say. Especially annoying since I'm a gamer and those kind of drops are frustrating.

Outside of the drops the connection is perfect, no lag or other noticable problems.

I rang up eircom 2 weeks ago, told them about this. Their actions were..

-> Sent out an engineer to look at our line, he reported he found water in a site down the road and that should fix the problem. It didn't.

-> Another engineer rechecked the line and confirmed there was no problem.

-> A phone operator then suggested it may be my PS3 causing these problems, as I'm using a PPOE connection with a broadband1 login that they call as "incorrect" and didn't seem to like for some reason. My PS3 connection was fine and I wasnt happy to change my login details, I kept my PS3 off for a few days and confirmed these problems were happening regardless if my PS3 was connected to the modem or not.

-> Today an operator suggested my line may not be able to handle the full 8mb, he said the allowance on my line was down as 6mb and suggested changing it to 4mb to rectify the problem. I didn't approve but he did it anyway as a test, told me he'd raise it again after our phonecall but hasn't. The cap is still at 4mb. :pac:

The problem is still all happening and all I've got from Eircom in these past 2 weeks is a headache and 2mb less. I feel myself the problem is the router but they've told me they won't replace it for free. The dude basically gave me 3 options.

-> Sign a new eircom contract for 12 months and they'll replace it for free (also means we can't switch providers without a penalty)
-> Pay them 50 euro for a new router
-> Switch providers.

Any thoughts what I should do or anyone had a similar problem?

keno-daytrader

I am having the same problems as you. Weeks ago my connection would drop for a second and then reconnect, and as I have 5 programs going depending on a stable constant connection, its a real pain when the dsl drops. Now this would only happen in the mornings or afternoon.

Eircom did the same thing as what you ve said, lowered my line , increased my interleave, and with no change in the problem. So an engineer came out and installed a new eircom filter box to replace the main socket, this seemed to help but I am still getting 1 or 2 disconnects a day somtimes, other times its fine.

I had a Netopia 2247 that they gave me but also had a good netgear modem that I also tried. Same results with either modem, so in my case its not the modems.

Im at a loss of what to do, but the problem has gotten better but is still an annoyance sometimes. Im due to be upgraded to 24 meg service soon, so Im hoping that the new adsl+2 equip will solve the problem.

Moral of the story is a new modem didnt help me and your problem sounds identical to mine.

Also if you could post your stats it might help. (from your modems page), heres mine

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8160 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 27.0 db 14.0 db
Noise Margin 11.1 db 25.0 db

Downlinz

Hi, thanks for the reply. it does sound like a similar problem.

My stats page gives me this

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3808 512 (was over 6000 this morning)
SN Margin (dB) 6.40 19.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 39.50 24.00
CRC Errors 0 0

jor el

6.4dB SNR is very low, and is quite likely the cause of the disconnects. What's causing it to be so bad is anyone's guess though. Something is making your line noisy though. To eliminate your own house, plug out everything that is connected to phone lines in the house. Move the modem to the main eircom socket, and plug it directly in, no filter/splitter. Check the SNR there. If it's still poor, then the problem is outside. If you can borrow a modem from someone else, that would rule out the modem as the problem too.

eircom won't spend much time investigating this, as you've already found out.

Downlinz

Had a look again now and got

Downstream Upstream Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3808 512 SN Margin (dB) 13.90 19.00 Line Attenuation (dB) 39.50 24.00 CRC Errors 27 0


Which I presume is a more acceptable figure?

Either way I'll keep an eye on it, would fluctuating SN Margins be a problem and if so would could be the cause of fluctuating noise instead of anything consistent?

keno-daytrader

fluctuating noise margin is not good, depending on the modem once it drops below 6 you'll prob get a disconnect.

When I first moved in here my noise margin was really bad, I physically disconnected all phone sockets in the house and my margin went way up and I was able to get full speed, if you do have other sockets in the house, try and do as jor el suggested.

In my case a ****ty connection upstairs in one of the sockets not even in use caused the bad noise margin.

dub45

keno-daytrader wrote: »

fluctuating noise margin is not good, depending on the modem once it drops below 6 you'll prob get a disconnect.

When I first moved in here my noise margin was really bad, I physically disconnected all phone sockets in the house and my margin went way up and I was able to get full speed, if you do have other sockets in the house, try and do as jor el suggested.

In my case a ****ty connection upstairs in one of the sockets not even in use caused the bad noise margin.

Its well worth checking your internal set up to see if anything could be adding to your problems. While ago a friend of mine was having problems with snr after a speed boost and we eventually found an old phone still plugged in under a bed that he completely forgot about. Removed phone and problems solved. I only quote this to show what can be contributing.

This article is worth a read:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm

Downlinz

I did remember there was an old phone in a cupboard that had some sort of connection to our alarm system, it wasn't connected to a filter. Could this have been a problem even though it was rarely in use?

I attached a filter to it so will wait and see if it solves the problem.

The article was very helpful btw, thanks.

dub45

Downlinz wrote: »

I did remember there was an old phone in a cupboard that had some sort of connection to our alarm system, it wasn't connected to a filter. Could this have been a problem even though it was rarely in use?

I attached a filter to it so will wait and see if it solves the problem.

The article was very helpful btw, thanks.

Anything connected without a filter is potentially a disaster:)

Downlinz

That doesn't seem to have solved the problem.

I've noticed while monitoring the SNR that it tends to either be at a good level of 11-13 solidly for some time then suddenly drop and stay at a low level of 4-7 where its liable to go down in that stage. Its not fluctuating wildly between all values, it seems to swap between prolonged periods of being perfect and prolonged periods of being very noisey.

Any ideas of the cause of this?

Going to try testing it without anything else plugged in on the main line but I'm not expecting anything.

lucernarian

The strong fluctuations is often a sign of electromagnetic interference of some description. Thermostats, dodgy fluorescent lights or public street lighting (only at night of course), electric motors when they start up, the sparking from an electric fence (but that interference happens every second). Things like electric fridges and freezers can be bad at EMI for these reasons.

Disconnecting as many extensions as possible and installing a filter socket at the main (first) socket in the house does help but results will vary depending on where the interference is coming from.

Attaching filters by themselves are not that effective, even an unused extension phoneline will act as an antenna for interference to enter the system as the line extension itself is not filtered or can act as a small in-house bridge tap. By using a filtered master socket, you can use whatever extensions or alarms one wants, by isolating the connection to the modem from all other phone wiring but only at DSL frequencies. This is why they can be extremely effective.


Here's a handy way to detect AM interference: find a normally unused AM frequency on a radio with medium wave. I don't know of which ones work as I've no access to such a radio now but perhaps someone could advise on a good frequency which would show up possible noise. Something between 300kHz and 1000KHz anyway. Interference which affects DSL will be equally present on an AM radio with any sort of antenna plugged in, like a metre of wire that you'd see with many radios. The interference will be coming from wherever the interference on the radio is loudest as such.

Can anyone post a useful frequency to check this on?

Downlinz

Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 5472 512 SN Margin (dB) 6.10 19.00 Line Attenuation (dB) 39.50 25.00 CRC Errors 115 0

Current stats, CRC errors are bad right? =o
Does that indicate any other kind of problem are they just part of the noisy line package?

lucernarian

We know your line is bad but can you do anything more to eliminate sources of interference or unnecessary extra phone sockets/extensions etc? Filtering some sockets isn't enough to deal with a local interference problem. The wiring from the socket to the master socket/junction box can also pick up interference quite easily.

The best bet is to disconnect every bit of phone wiring except leave the outside line connected to one phone socket and test the stability of the line temporarily. If that works, then you can get a filtered master socket and you can connect all the extra sockets again through that. If that is physically difficult for you to do, insist to eircom that they should bring out a linesman to have a look at your line because of constant DSL disconnects and mention sometimes you hear crackling during phone calls too.


Btw, that line's speed is very high for a line with that attenuation. I wouldn't be comfortable with allowing a line to work over 5 mbps on that line. Eircom should drop it down to 5 mbps even if an eircom "engineer" visits.

Downlinz

I've tried testing the line with everything else disconnected and with the router connected to various sockets and noticed no change whatsoever. (during a period when the line was bad)

I'll try to get hold of a different router to see if it could something as simple as the hardware before looking for line technicians.

lucernarian

There's no way you could disconnect all the extra sockets and lines to them is there? If you had only one socket connected to the line with all extensions disconnected it would be a great help to diagnosing the issue.

Plugging out extra phones and sky boxes etc. is not enough to rule out internal wiring.

Downlinz

I wouldn't, plus its my parents house and I don't think they'd like me at the internal wiring. If an eircom technician came out I presume they'd perform this kind of check?

lucernarian

It's very likely though some linesmen seem to have better training than others. But it's nearly certain from what I've heard with various other cases on boards.

Alun

I had similar problems twice in the past year or so, and despite a rather good Eircom guy spending some time on the problem, all he could do was confirm what I already had guessed that it was some kind of intermittent electromagnetic interference and almost certainly airborne. I could hear it quite clearly on an AM radio tuned to about 500kHz (load buzzing noise almost like a chainsaw!) and I could also see it quite clearly on a graph of SNR versus bin number / frequency (my D-Link router can do this, as can many others).

Eventually I got ComReg involved and they came along with a team of guys and wandered around our estate with a spectrum analyzer attached to an antenna and tracked it down initially to coming from the cables running along the pavement. Then they looked a little closer and homed in on a house at the end of the road where the spectrum analyzer went crazy. The owner wasn't home so they left a note to call them, and also wrote to him, and a few days later everything was OK again. God knows what he was running in there, but he seems to have stopped!

So, if you can prove that there's widespread interference on the AM band causing this then get in touch with ComReg. They might be ineffectual at some things, but they take radio spectrum interference fairly seriously.

To_be_confirmed

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Here's a handy way to detect AM interference: find a normally unused AM frequency on a radio with medium wave. I don't know of which ones work as I've no access to such a radio now but perhaps someone could advise on a good frequency which would show up possible noise. Something between 300kHz and 1000KHz anyway. Interference which affects DSL will be equally present on an AM radio with any sort of antenna plugged in, like a metre of wire that you'd see with many radios. The interference will be coming from wherever the interference on the radio is loudest as such.

Can anyone post a useful frequency to check this on?

You could use 567 or 612 kHz - these are the old RTÉ MW frequencies and are currently unused. Best to test during the day to rule out long range broadcasts at night.