Antrim hurlers want home draws in Leinster

sendit

They wanted into the Leinster Championship to improve hurling which is a positive and now would like the odd home match, fair enough you might think, but the also not only get a home game for the Ulster final at every level they also go straight into the final. The things i have issue with is how will it improve firstly Antrim themselfs if they go straight and more or less pick up a handy title every year, also how the other Ulster county's are going to improve if they just get hammered by Antrim every year. An other thing is why are Antrim in the Leinster & Ulster Championships? Granted they are the strongest in Ulster but considering they only have to win 1 game means chances are they will win, less chance of getting beat now if they had Derry then Down semi and final and maybe play outside Belfast might be different story.

adrian522

They need to bring back relegation from the Liam McCarthy Cup, the Leinster championship is just getting bigger and bigger and every year the winners of the Christy ring get into it.

Also all the teams should start at the same stage where possible. i.e no byes to the semi finals. If teams want to compete at this level they should have to line up against the best teams.

I wouldn't really have any problems with Antrim or Galway having home games. Bit silly to have Antrim in 2 provincial championships though.

antoobrien

In fairness, neither Antrim nor Galway get anything financially out of playing in Leinster. And they were both told that they have to play in the LHC for the next 2 years (the original deal was to end after this year, it's now end of 2013). It's a bit much to expect them to do all that traveling without the prospect of a home game.

I also think it's a bit rich that neither Carlow (not eligible at the time) nor Westmeath were initially allowed into the LHC when Antrim & Galway were brought in and only got in after central council realised Antrim couldn't be relegated until the end of the deal.

sendit

antoobrien wrote: »

I also think it's a bit rich that neither Carlow (not eligible at the time) nor Westmeath were initially allowed into the LHC when Antrim & Galway were brought in and only got in after central council realised Antrim couldn't be relegated until the end of the deal.

That was a point i also ment to make, Lenister wouldn't let actual Lenister county's into the championship but let two outside county's in.
Also if i recall after Westmeath won one of the Christy Ring Cups and weren't let into the Lenister Championship they tryed to enter the Ulster Championship and weren't left surely this would have been good for the game in Ulster and would have keeped Antrim on there toes and wouldn't have an easy title to pick up each year.
It's also a joke that theres no relegation from the Liam McCarthy Cup
just because Antrim were playing in Lenister wile again might be wrong but Westmeath won the Christy Ring Cup and were let play in Lenister but not the Liam McCarthy Cup.
It seems to me that Antrim seem to get there way all the time, cant be relegated the Liam McCarthy Cup, get to play in 2 provincial championships and a few years ago were let play in the Christy Ring Cup even though they were clearly far too strong for the other teams.
Westmeath have won 3 Christy Ring Cups and a few league titles but were never let move up a grade and now there in Div 3

Diabhal Beag

Antrim and Galway shouldn't have home draws. Leinster matches should be in Leinster end of story but in regards to the likes of Westmeath and teams like that it would be nice if they were let into Ulster to develop hurling.

sinabhfuil

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Antrim and Galway shouldn't have home draws. Leinster matches should be in Leinster end of story but in regards to the likes of Westmeath and teams like that it would be nice if they were let into Ulster to develop hurling.

If Antrim were to have a home match it would do more to promote the game in their county rather than having all matches in Leinster. Not alot more but still more. As for westmeath playing in Ulster I don;'t think that that would devlop hurling in thier own county. They would hammer all teams bar Antrim and Down. They have good minor hurlers coming through and should be allowed to stay in Leinster along with Carlow which is why i disagree with relegation from McCarthy Cup.

sendit

sinabhfuil wrote: »

If Antrim were to have a home match it would do more to promote the game in their county rather than having all matches in Leinster. Not alot more but still more. As for westmeath playing in Ulster I don;'t think that that would devlop hurling in thier own county. They would hammer all teams bar Antrim and Down. They have good minor hurlers coming through and should be allowed to stay in Leinster along with Carlow which is why i disagree with relegation from McCarthy Cup.

If theres no relegation from the Liam McCarthy Cup then it makes the Christy Ring Cup pointless if the winner goes into the Liam McCarthy Cup and no one goes down thats going to mean theres going to be too many in it and not enough in the other Cups

nice_guy80

Teams should be promoted to the McCarthy cup once they are too strong for the Christy Ring Cup.

However, Westmeath weren't given this option and have actually gone backwards in the past 2/3 years.

There doesn't need to be relegation. In fact, the aim should be to allow teams into the McCarthy Cup once they feel they will be able to compete with stronger teams.

legendary.xix

Galway should move back to Connaught. Kerry, Carlow and Laois should join them in a Connaught Hurling Championship.
Antrim should leave the Leinster Championship and take on counties involved in the McCarthy Cup in the Ulster Championship. This would involve allowing Westmeath join the Ulster Championship, with Derry and Down being restored to the McCarthy Cup.
In time more counties can join either the Connaught and Ulster Championships if they feel they can play at that level.
The Leinster and Munster Championship have been ok so there's been no need to tweak them. The Connuaght Championship has never really existed, it'd be the right move to allow up and coming counties to play in that Championship. Every provinvial championship should have at least 4 teams which is why Ulster should take in Westmeath and restore Down and Derry to McCarthy level.

The breakdown:
Munster - Clare, Cork, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford. (5)
Leinster - Dublin, Kilkenny, Offaly, Wexford. (4)
Connaught - Galway, Laois, Carlow, Kerry, Wicklow (5)
Ulster - Antrim, Westmeath, Derry, Down. (4)
Next in line: Kildare, Meath, Mayo, Armagh

To promote hurling, there needs to be more counties involved. At a time when people are questioning the provincial structure, I believe running a Connaught and Ulster Championship bringing in certain counties will help the game in the long run. The championship were barely run anyways so bringing more teams will breathe life into them.

rebel girl 15

legendary.xix wrote: »

Galway should move back to Connaught. Kerry, Carlow and Laois should join them in a Connaught Hurling Championship.
Antrim should leave the Leinster Championship and take on counties involved in the McCarthy Cup in the Ulster Championship. This would involve allowing Westmeath join the Ulster Championship, with Derry and Down being restored to the McCarthy Cup.
In time more counties can join either the Connaught and Ulster Championships if they feel they can play at that level.
The Leinster and Munster Championship have been ok so there's been no need to tweak them. The Connuaght Championship has never really existed, it'd be the right move to allow up and coming counties to play in that Championship. Every provinvial championship should have at least 4 teams which is why Ulster should take in Westmeath and restore Down and Derry to McCarthy level.

The breakdown:
Munster - Clare, Cork, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford. (5)
Leinster - Dublin, Kilkenny, Offaly, Wexford. (4)
Connaught - Galway, Laois, Carlow, Kerry, Wicklow (5)
Ulster - Antrim, Westmeath, Derry, Down. (4)
Next in line: Kildare, Meath, Mayo, Armagh

To promote hurling, there needs to be more counties involved. At a time when people are questioning the provincial structure, I believe running a Connaught and Ulster Championship bringing in certain counties will help the game in the long run. The championship were barely run anyways so bringing more teams will breathe life into them.

Is this a WUM or am I missing something

Munster would be somewhat competitive - but Leinster would have Dublin and KK in the final, Connacht would prob have Galway winning it, Ulster would end up prob being a Down v Antrim final with Antrim winning. You'd have a number of hammerings and that does no good for either the team players or the supporters

I think Antrim and Galway should be getting a few home games, I'd have no problem with that especially when the deal was extended, without much consultation.

legendary.xix

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Is this a WUM or am I missing something

Munster would be somewhat competitive - but Leinster would have Dublin and KK in the final, Connacht would prob have Galway winning it, Ulster would end up prob being a Down v Antrim final with Antrim winning. You'd have a number of hammerings and that does no good for either the team players or the supporters

I think Antrim and Galway should be getting a few home games, I'd have no problem with that especially when the deal was extended, without much consultation.

It's not a WUM! You make good points and they are what I expected as well. The system I suggest is open to those criticisms.

My reasons though are: Every province needs to have a representative in the latter stage, generally provided by the provincial winner at least. Before Galway and Antrim joined Leinster, they used to more of less go straight through to the AI quarter-finals. Under the above system, the best of the rest could play-off to take on Antrim or Galway in a Provincial final. All provincial champions from the 4 provinces should be given home tie in the quarter-finals against one of the four qualifiers they would face. The Leinster and Munster champion should be kept a part so that if they go all the way, they can only meet at the AI final.

moomoocow

On the subject of promotion and relegationin hurling. In 2006 Dublin won Div 2 of the league and went up to Div 1 the next year Laois won it and Westmeath the year after why did they not go up and Dublin did? Kerry also won in 2001 and didn't get promoted

legendary.xix

moomoocow wrote: »

On the subject of promotion and relegationin hurling. In 2006 Dublin won Div 2 of the league and went up to Div 1 the next year Laois won it and Westmeath the year after why did they not go up and Dublin did? Kerry also won in 2001 and didn't get promoted

It will have coincided with whatever restructuring of the hurling league at the time. There was so much restructuring of the league that I lost interest in the league those years until it's returned to normality recently.

bren2001

legendary.xix wrote: »

The breakdown:
Munster - Clare, Cork, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford. (5)
Leinster - Dublin, Kilkenny, Offaly, Wexford. (4)
Connaught - Galway, Laois, Carlow, Kerry, Wicklow (5)
Ulster - Antrim, Westmeath, Derry, Down. (4)
Next in line: Kildare, Meath, Mayo, Armagh

To promote hurling, there needs to be more counties involved.

Essentially you have Tipp/Cork, Kilkenny, Galway and Antrim automatically into the All Ireland Quarter Finals. It does allow more teams into the championship which is important but does not allow teams to develop e.g. Dublin would not have developed as much as they have without Galway and Antrim being in Leinster. Including these in Leinster allows quality opposition in both Munster and Leinster. A 4 province system is ridiculous.

Antrim and Galway have the same rights to have a home game as the next team. Its unfair to ask them to travel every time and makes it harder for them to progress.

legendary.xix

bren2001 wrote: »

Essentially you have Tipp/Cork, Kilkenny, Galway and Antrim automatically into the All Ireland Quarter Finals. It does allow more teams into the championship which is important but does not allow teams to develop e.g. Dublin would not have developed as much as they have without Galway and Antrim being in Leinster. Including these in Leinster allows quality opposition in both Munster and Leinster. A 4 province system is ridiculous.

Antrim and Galway have the same rights to have a home game as the next team. Its unfair to ask them to travel every time and makes it harder for them to progress.

I accept the flaws in the system I've outlined. You have to remember however before the system changed, Antrim and Galway had a free pass to the All-Ireland qualifiers. Dubliln have been developing over the last few years, I haven't seen the arrival of Antrim and Galway having any affect on that.

The Leinster Championship is still a Leinster Championship. Galway and Antrim have been invited as guests. As such, it is right that they play their games in Leinster and respect their hosts the Leinster Council who've allowed them take part. The Copa America invites two nations to it's Championship. Those nations travel to South America to take part.

I think the GAA have it in mind to cap the Liam McCarthy at 16 teams. If they do, the following is the way qualifier series will be heading:

Premlinary Phase
Antrim - Kerry ... Antrim
Offaly - Carlow ... Offaly
Laois - Westmeath ... Laois
Clare - Wicklow ... Clare

Phase I
Clare - Antrim ... Clare
Offaly - Laois ... Offaly

Phase II
Tipperary - Dublin ... Tipperary
Limerick - Wexford ... Limerick

Relegations Play-Offs
Round 1
Kerry - Wexford ... Wexford
Carlow - Dublin ... Dublin
Westmeath - Laois ... Laois
Wicklow - Antrim ... Antrim

Round 2
Kerry - Carlow ... Carlow
Westmeath - Wicklow ... Westmeath

Relegation Final (Defeated team being demoted)
Kerry - Wicklow ... ???

Christy Ring Cup Final (Winner gaining promotion)
Kildare - Down ... ???

It's all well and good if they are heading in this direction. I think the likes of Carlow, Westmeath, Kerry, Wicklow and other Christy Ring Cup teams will accept promotion and relegation in this system. The year after next, 2013, is the first year we are likely to see 16 involved. If this system is settled upon, I'm sure it'll last as long as none of a select few are involved. If one of the select few were to get tangled in a web, we'll see the goalposts being moved again. Just as they were when the GAA embarassingly scrapped the relegation series.

sendit

On the subject of the promotion and relegation in the league does anyone find it odd that Dublin were left go up when they won it but when Laois and Westmeath so called weaker county's do the GAA deside to change the rules, had Kerry won that 2006 Div 2 title i wouder would they have been promoted?

Also when the Christy Ring First started how did they deside who played in what?

The current cribbing from the likes of Clare, Offaly and Wexford on the league system is a joke but what is an even bigger joke is that the powers that be seem to be paying lip service to it.

The current league system is grand but certain counties want the rules bent because they feel due to the fact they have all Ireland titles to their name they deserve to play at the highest level and f*ck the likes of Carlow, Kerry, Laois, Antrim, Down and Westmeath and others who are doing their best to make progression. Carlow beat Wexford in 2010 yet Wexford felt if they had relegated they were too good to play them in 2012 which is totally wrong.

With respect to Wexford they have survived the drop but these other counties who are not good enough should take their medicine and accept they are not top 8 material.

Also i believe the original system to pick who is good enough for whichever competition is totally flawed and based on age old tradition as opposed to who is actually good enough

sendit

Savage questions Antrim bye into decider

31 May 2011


Down midfielder Andy Savage doesn't think it's fair that Antrim should have a bye into the Ulster SHC final.

The Saffrons were knocked out of the Leinster SHC by Wexford last Sunday, but still have the Ulster SHC final and the All-Ireland qualifiers to look forward to.



"I don't think it is nice to see someone getting a bye straight into the final and at their own ground into the bargain. To win a championship, a team should have to play at least two games," Savage said in the Irish News.

"Kilkenny don't get a bye into the Leinster final, for example. However, Antrim are a good team and they have got big numbers to pick from. Anyhow, if we get to the final, we will give it a lash. We never fear Antrim and we must look after ourselves and not worry about them."

The Ardsmen face an Ulster SHC semi-final against Armagh after hammering Derry by 16 points last weekend.