Suicide vs debt forgiveness

Vivala

I read one post on Boards about someone in Clonmel who committed suicide because of debt. I eventually found the article on the Independent website http://www.independent.ie/national-news/troubled-trader-shot-himself-hours-after-bailiff-visit-1843626.html

Clearly the government, the banks, the utility companies, etc. have the right to chase people for outstanding debts and unpaid taxes. BUT how exactly should they do it so that they don't drive people to suicide?

Is debt forgiveness the answer?
If not, then what is the answer?
How does the country deal with this problem??

thebman

The answer is to discuss the problem with the person and work towards a solution that both parties feel is workable.

Otherwise more people will commit suicide and more people will try to walk away from their debts via emigration if necessary.

Vivala

thebman wrote: »

The answer is to discuss the problem with the person and work towards a solution that both parties feel is workable.

Otherwise more people will commit suicide and more people will try to walk away from their debts via emigration if necessary.

I agree that the problem needs to be discussed and it would be great to see this type of approach. But do the Revenue or the Banks have the capacity, understanding or empathy to do this effectively? Are the banks doing this?

tenchi-fan

Vivala wrote: »

Is debt forgiveness the answer?

The guy had unpaid taxes relating to 2005. At some stage personal responsibility comes into it. I don't think people's debt should be forgiven just because they are assessed as a suicide risk.

Rather, the person should be allowed to attend counselling in order to cope with their problems.

Balmed Out

Is Debt forgiveness the answer?
No, can you imagine the amount of chancers suddenly feeling suicidal?

RichardAnd

I have alot of experience with suicide and, once, I talked a very close friend out of taking her own life. What I can tell you about suicide is that is often not one little thing that is pushing a suicidal person to end their own lives. More so, they will be depressed to a point that their lives feel opressive and thus, the option of self termination seems a release.

Thus, I would be skeptical of saying that taking debt of a suicidal person will automatically return them to good spirits. It would probably help but once depression sets in, it's not a quick thing to be rid of.

Besides, if it became the case that being suicidal meant getting off one's debt then I would expect Ireland to quickly become the most suicidal nation on earth.

Pompey Magnus

Surely though there is no such thing as free money, if a person's debt is forgiven it will simply be passed on to the rest of the population to compensate the banks, utility companies etc for the loss (they aren't going to take a hit themselves if they can at all help it).

Forgive enough debt and all you will do is increase the burden on the rest of the population, pushing into debt those who were less reckless with their money but are just about making ends meet as it is.

RichardAnd

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Surely though there is no such thing as free money, if a person's debt is forgiven it will simply be passed on to the rest of the population to compensate the banks, utility companies etc for the loss (they aren't going to take a hit themselves if they can at all help it).

Forgive enough debt and all you will do is increase the burden on the rest of the population, pushing into debt those who were less reckless with their money but are just about making ends meet as it is.

Pretty much and that's my "Debt Forgivness" is a total misnomer. It should be known as "Debt Shifting".

RichardAnd

RichardAnd wrote: »

I have alot of experience with suicide and, once, I talked a very close friend out of taking her own life. What I can tell you about suicide is that is often not one little thing that is pushing a suicidal person to end their own lives. More so, they will be depressed to a point that their lives feel opressive and thus, the option of self termination seems a release.

Thus, I would be skeptical of saying that taking debt of a suicidal person will automatically return them to good spirits. It would probably help but once depression sets in, it's not a quick thing to be rid of.

Besides, if it became the case that being suicidal meant getting off one's debt then I would expect Ireland to quickly become the most suicidal nation on earth.

I have also been in this situation and I couldn't agree more.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sarumite

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I would also add that the correlation between recession/job losses and suicide is not necessarely one based solely on debt. Many who lose their jobs lose a feeling of 'self-worth' and pondering around the house all day eventually gets to your state of mind. Many will wake up and wonder whats the point of getting out of bed in the morning if I have no where to go and nothing to do.While debt may certainly add to the pressures one is feeling during a time of unemployment, debt forgiveness does not solve many of the other pyscological issues that comes with unemployment.

macannrb

I agree with all the sentiment above. It seems to be that one thing is not usually the answer, but a death by a thousand cuts

I think the feeling that there is no end in sight, as property taxes, mounting debts, higher interest rates, badly performing pensions, pension levies, higher insurance costs, higher personal taxes, wage reductions all have an effect.

But then add in, friends leaving for jobs abroad, difficulties with partner, trying to explain to kids why there is no 2/3 holidays this year, taking kids out of private schools/expensive classes, neighbours asking for loans, finding it hard to put basic foods on the table, thoughts of losing your house.

Personally though, if this was happening to me, id be saving up a few quid to get a one way ticket to the other side of the world.

Easier said then done though.

But I have heard of people in good jobs, handing in their notice, having found another job abroad, just to escape the doom and gloom here

thebman

sarumite wrote: »

I would also add that the correlation between recession/job losses and suicide is not necessarely one based solely on debt. Many who lose their jobs lose a feeling of 'self-worth' and pondering around the house all day eventually gets to your state of mind. Many will wake up and wonder whats the point of getting out of bed in the morning if I have no where to go and nothing to do.While debt may certainly add to the pressures one is feeling during a time of unemployment, debt forgiveness does not solve many of the other pyscological issues that comes with unemployment.

But you don't have to be unemployed to not be able to pay your debts.

The people they owe money to should sit down with them to negotiate a proper payment plan as it is usually obvious and accepted by all that the current one isn't working.

A repayment holiday isn't even what is necessary but if a person is on welfare or earning little then spreading the payments out over a longer term and reducing monthly repayments temporarily will most likely be the easiest way to deal with the issue.

And I'm sure it is the thing pushing many people over the edge. They are in the home each day, may have given up on getting a job and the only letters are bills and people turning up on their door to hassle them for money that both parties know the person doesn't have.

Leaves the person in a position where they know there is nothing they can do making them feel helpless and worthless to the world knowing that the person is just going to come back next week/month demanding the money they know they don't have again. Like being trapped in a nightmare for some will ultimately be looking for anyway to escape be it taking their own lives or moving house/country in an attempt to escape their problems.

sarumite

thebman wrote: »

But you don't have to be unemployed to not be able to pay your debts.

I was responsing to a specific point made by another poster. I think you are taking my post out of that context.