How to improve breathing & technique?

QuickHide

So I'm swimming about twice a week, mainly crawl. I'd say my technique is kack but I never asked anyone. I always breathe to the left and try to do it every third stroke but the problem is I barely ever make it through a length without at least one instance of breathing on two consecutive strokes, if you know what I mean. I feel like I'm bursting for breath sometimes...
Another thing is, the first 20 is just so bloody hard, once I get through that, I'm ok. Haven't mastered the tumble turn and feel if I could do that, I might get a better rhythm with the breathing.

Anyone any tips?

Balmed Out

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055896808

Dont understand what you mean. Breathing every third stroke would mean your breathing bilateraly (left then right then left etc).
Do you mean then your breathing every 6 strokes?
Thats far too little. Every three better.

Lots of people cycling / swimming / running find the first while the hardest as your warming up.

Tumble turn.

Practice doing a tumble while swimming. Dont slow down so you keep the momentum. Imagine your pushing your head between your legs while getting into a tight ball. You can use your hands at your sides to help if the momentum from the swim isnt enough. Breath out your knows while your doing it.
Once thats mastered practice at the wall. Dont tumble until your very close to the wall otherwise your legs wont reach it.


Once youve mastered the frontcrawl turn the backstroke one is simple. Use the flags to gauge your position roll onto front do the front crawl turn but remain on back afterwards.
Goodluck

QuickHide

Balmed Out wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055896808

Dont understand what you mean. Breathing every third stroke would mean your breathing bilateraly (left then right then left etc).
Do you mean then your breathing every 6 strokes?
Thats far too little. Every three better.

Well I defo don't breathe left and right, only left cos I find it hard to breathe right. Each arm stroke is what I meant, I start on the right arm, then left, then right and on the fourth stroke left, I breathe. Hard to explain - now that I'm not in the pool, I can't visualise it.

Will give the tumble a go, thanks for that

Balmed Out

Your breathing every 4 so. You are better off trying to breath every 3. Breathing only to one side can scew your stroke a bit and it should also help leave you a little less breathless. Also dont hold your breath let do a trrickle and a burst, always breathing out until you burst whatever else is there before you get the next breath in.

QuickHide

Have looked at your link above to the other thread on breathing. It looks as though I'd be much better off doing bilateral breathing but I don't know if that's just a bridge too far for me....:( Any time I try breathing to my right, it feels weird and unnatural (I'm a left-handed writer, don't know if that's relevant). Maybe an instructor could help? Or I could try doing an experimental 10 lgths bilateral in every session.... Is it just practice?

Nonmonotonic

Maybe this might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ePIQb7bXw

Need to practice this myself.

Burkatron

Balmed Out wrote: »

Your breathing every 4 so. You are better off trying to breath every 3. Breathing only to one side can scew your stroke a bit and it should also help leave you a little less breathless. Also dont hold your breath let do a trrickle and a burst, always breathing out until you burst whatever else is there before you get the next breath in.

Ah dude, thats not really the best advice. What's the point in telling someone to breath to both sides badly when they cant breath to 1 properly??

OP, you need to just practice, practice, practice. Breathing is the last thing anyone gets when they're learning/improving at swimming... I'll write a more detailed post later after work if someone doesn't before then! Also I wouldn't even think about tumble turns till you have your breathing right!

Burkatron

Nonmonotonic wrote: »

Maybe this might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ePIQb7bXw

Need to practice this myself.

This is good but it's advanced....I teach this to the kids I train & they pick it up easy enough. Adults who haven't done this before really struggle with this, you have to make sure their kick is spot on before you turn them to the side legs only. Even when their kick is spot on it's a struggle! The drill in the video can be done with a float at first for balance purposes BUT adding the float will add resistance making it harder so it's even hardder at 1st.

Op you said it already, I'd give an instructor a shout & have them look at you to see where you're going wrong! We can throw out advice & videos all we want but not being able to see your stroke its just a stab in the dark. Where are you based? Hopefully someone will be able to recommend an instructor in your area!

kris71

I agree with Burkatron that there is no point in starting bi-lateral breathing until you master your strong side first. Best way to practice your breathing at the beginning is with a series of progressive drills, you should start with practicing balance on your side (if you will struggle with that drill start with float -pull buoy works best- underneath the arm that is by your side rather then holding it in your leading arm hand, to maintain more horizontal body position) then roll from your side to face down to breath out and roll out to your side again without loosing balance, next step would be a low head position with bottom goggle in the water.
Pop-eye breathing does really nice job

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-vNJL3W5ZM

however practicing solo is hard as you can't see yourself so I would still recommend manual assist or at least feedback from a swim instructor like myself

Nonmonotonic

I bow to the instructors superior knowledge however I found the technique in the video I posted useful. I am a (badly) self taught swimmer and as a consequence have a poor kick. I also breathe on one side but mastered both sides using the above drill. Shame I cant sort my backstroke!

I'm an expert on bad technique so I can also advise the OP that doing the lengths more slowly will help the breathing problem.

kris71

Nonmonotonic no one said that the video you've posted was wrong, but the idea of learning complex new skill like freestyle breathing, is to brake it down to small skills and progress them gradually into a full stroke practice. Drill that you've send would be one of the last stages of developing breathing but there is nothing wrong with the drill itself

I will agree that working on technique requires a lot of precision and concentration so quality not quantity and certainly swim and drill on slow pace so you can have more control over your stroke

Elmo

QuickHide wrote: »

Have looked at your link above to the other thread on breathing. It looks as though I'd be much better off doing bilateral breathing but I don't know if that's just a bridge too far for me....:( Any time I try breathing to my right, it feels weird and unnatural (I'm a left-handed writer, don't know if that's relevant). Maybe an instructor could help? Or I could try doing an experimental 10 lgths bilateral in every session.... Is it just practice?

As a Right Hand person I can't breath to my Right ????

I breath out through my mouth is this wrong?

Burkatron

QuickHide wrote: »

Have looked at your link above to the other thread on breathing. It looks as though I'd be much better off doing bilateral breathing but I don't know if that's just a bridge too far for me....:( Any time I try breathing to my right, it feels weird and unnatural (I'm a left-handed writer, don't know if that's relevant). Maybe an instructor could help? Or I could try doing an experimental 10 lgths bilateral in every session.... Is it just practice?

You're left hand dominant so you'll find it easier to learn majority of new movements on your left as you have more neural pathways & propriaception from doing everyday movements.

Elmo wrote: »

As a Right Hand person I can't breath to my Right ????

Where did this come from??

Elmo wrote: »

I breath out through my mouth is this wrong?

Nope, it's not wrong at all. You can breath out either way. The problem with teaching someone to breath out their nose is that they tend to try & breath in through their nose & thats where problems arise. Disassociating your nose from swimming is something that takes time to learn unless you use a nose clip which forces this to happen! Keep doing what you're doing if it's working for you!

kris71

Breathing out through the nose can stop water from getting into your nose specially in all sort of tumbles and turns so it is useful aquatic skill but there is nothing wrong with breathing out through your mouth.

Burkatron somehow that theory doesn't always work in practice as I had a lot of students that found breathing to non-dominant side much easier. However that would be around 20% of all of them

Burkatron

kris71 wrote: »

Breathing out through the nose can stop water from getting into your nose specially in all sort of tumbles and turns so it is useful aquatic skill but there is nothing wrong with breathing out through your mouth.

Burkatron somehow that theory doesn't always work in practice as I had a lot of students that found breathing to non-dominant side much easier. However that would be around 20% of all of them

Totally agree, not everyone falls into this pattern (weirdo's* :P). Thats why I said this:

You're left hand dominant so you'll find it easier to learn majority of new movements on your left as you have more neural pathways & propriaception from doing everyday movements.

You know yourself that a high majority of the time people will naturally try to their dominant side 1st

(*I was joking about the weirdo's thing for anyone that didn't pick up on that)

Elmo

Burkatron wrote: »

Totally agree, not everyone falls into this pattern (werdo's* :P).

I look towards the left when taking a breath am I a "werdo*". I am right handed.

*I don't get jokes.

kris71

Burkatron wrote: »

You know yourself that a high majority of the time people will naturally try to their dominant side 1st

True, including myself as well and when I think about it I believe I goed a bit to far with 20%, below 10% would be more likely

I look towards the left when taking a breath am I a "werdo*". I am right handed.

No Elmo you are just... special ;P nothing wrong in being a bit different then majority of population

Burkatron

Elmo wrote: »

I look towards the left when taking a breath am I a "werdo*". I am right handed.

*I don't get jokes.

So slow, only saw my typeo now!
*Your big bang theory thread is backing up you go against the norm....weirdo!!! :P

*Terrible show & I agree with your opinion on it....:D