Nicky Brennan put his arm on the Queen

kevin99

Ok.

You receive an invitation to attend and be presented to the Queen on her visit to Croke Park.
You accept the invitiation. As a former President of the GAA you are used, well used to these kind of gatherings, greeting dignitaries from the worlds of politics, religion, celebrity and diplomatic service.
You probably have never met a Monarch up close and personal.
You receive a note outlining the protocal for the visit and meeting with the Queen.
It states simple protocols like you don't have to bow; address her as Your Majesty and afterwards call her Mam; shake hands when she profers her hand to you; Don't grab her by the arm, neck, shoulders, elbow, hands.

It seems simple. Sure who would grab a Monarch like he was grabbing some minor figure from politics or celebrity?
Nicky Brennan would that's who. Nicky Brennan.

Watching the visit to Croke Park is was the first major faux pas; the other was the failure of Christy Cooney to keep up with the Queen at all times.
When she was finished all the introductions for a brief few seconds she stood alone and then Cooney appeared at her side. It was before he made his way to the rostrum to make an excellent speech.

But Brennan looked like he was on the chicken and chip circuit to borrow that well worn phrase from Charles J Haughey, as he held the Queen's right elbow in an almost vice like grip introducing her to assembled guests.

It was so embarrassing. Millions of people watching the spectacle live on television.

But Nicky didn't care. He was amongst his own and sure the Queen was paying a flying visit. And sure he wanted to make sure she was close enough to him and the guests to understand what he and they were saying to her.

Surely, he read the protocal encyclical! Surely, somebody closeby could have nudged him and pointed out you are squeezing the Queen's elblow Nicky, now cut it out.

No, Her Majesty's security guards had to rescue her and her elbow.
What's that adage: you can take the man out of Kilkenny, but you can't take Kilkenny out of the man.

2Scoops

Who cares about all these stupid rules? I bet she doesn't even care herself. Nicky is the man, and so is ROG.

kevin99

They are not rules, they are protocol. He was informed beforehand how to behave and he didn't. Many people care. Most notably the Royals and their security and that's for starters.
If somebody was told not to grab your arm or the arm of your wife and they went ahead and did so, would you not be annoyed?

531

Fair play to Nicky. She was on his patch, when in Rome....

LK_Dave

could be worst, could have dropped it:eek:

2Scoops

kevin99 wrote: »

If somebody was told not to grab your arm or the arm of your wife and they went ahead and did so, would you not be annoyed?

I don't forward a list of rules to people before I talk to them. And if I was with my wife and Nicky touched her elbow or whatever, I'd be ok with it. :rolleyes:

charlemont

Prince Philip should have swung a slap at him.

Minstrel27

kevin99 wrote: »

They are not rules, they are protocol. He was informed beforehand how to behave and he didn't. Many people care. Most notably the Royals and their security and that's for starters.
If somebody was told not to grab your arm or the arm of your wife and they went ahead and did so, would you not be annoyed?

Dis he assault her or something?

2Scoops

Pics:
http://www.balls.ie/2011/05/18/nicky-brennan-manhandles-the-queen-the-pictures/

alan85

If anybody should have read the protocol it was the royal guests. That is GAA. Everybody equal and no egos. Nicky Brennan was the man that made all this possible in the first place. If Croke Park wasn't opened to rugby I wouldn't imagine today would have happened.

It's not like he swore or anything. All's good. The monarchy's like the church. It needs to get with the times...

efb

Wasn't Eamonn Guilmore all over her yesterday

Corsendonk

charlemont wrote: »

Prince Philip should have swung a slap at him.

He was too busy checking out the female talent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFN2iGulYOs

Ed Jos

Whatever about Nicky, these two look like someone just turned on the lights and caught them up to no good round the corner! ...
http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF715/516662.jpg

kevin99

alan85 wrote: »

If anybody should have read the protocol it was the royal guests. That is GAA. Everybody equal and no egos. Nicky Brennan was the man that made all this possible in the first place. If Croke Park wasn't opened to rugby I wouldn't imagine today would have happened.

It's not like he swore or anything. All's good. The monarchy's like the church. It needs to get with the times...

Sean Kelly was the man who made it all possible when he set in motion the wheels to open the stadium to football and rugby.
Brennan acted like a real mucker.

sceptre

alan85 wrote: »

That is GAA. Everybody equal and no egos.

There are plenty of egos in GAA. Extra in Limerick and Cork of course based on recent history but plenty to go around. Not really a defence to Nicky Brennan's inability to read an A4 sheet...

Rigor Mortis

Its not a foul unless he pulls her jersey, otherwise its a fair shoulder.

Seriously I think that a case of bigger picture should apply here. Queen visits site of one of the major attrocities in the republic (and one which is drummed into us all as childer as a reason to hate 'the brits') and is extended the hand of friendship.

Minor mistake of protocol. Big deal. :rolleyes:

rebel girl 15

kevin99 wrote: »

They are not rules, they are protocol. He was informed beforehand how to behave and he didn't. Many people care. Most notably the Royals and their security and that's for starters.
If somebody was told not to grab your arm or the arm of your wife and they went ahead and did so, would you not be annoyed?

He obviously didn't read the letter, but anyone with any bit of knowledge would realize touching the Queen is a no no, especially after she tried to shrug him off. But the palace have come out and said that she would not be offended

Asked later if he was aware of the protocol he had broken, Mr Brennan replied “no” adding “the first I’ve heard of it”.

Source: http://sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=14618&PHPSESSID=e2e2d9e44765ecb4b61c515bc4d6b67b

kevin99

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Its not a foul unless he pulls her jersey, otherwise its a fair shoulder.

Seriously I think that a case of bigger picture should apply here. Queen visits site of one of the major attrocities in the republic (and one which is drummed into us all as childer as a reason to hate 'the brits') and is extended the hand of friendship.

Minor mistake of protocol. Big deal. :rolleyes:

Two points to make.

1) a major atrocity was committed by Michael Collins and his men who murdered 14 men that Sunday morning, some in their beds. But that part of history was never 'drummed into me' during history lessons at school.

2) Brennan should have known the etiquette or protocol. Would he grab Mary McAleese's arm in similar fashion?

Solair

The Queen herself seemed totally oblivious to it and one of her minders just moved his hand after a while.

I get the impression the reason for that protocol is to avoid the Queen getting groped / grabbed by adoring fans wanting to "get a rub off her" like she's a lucky charm or something. It also makes sense from a security point of view if she's out and about.

She seemed quite happy to spend a good 25 minutes shaking hands at the State dinner. Normally, that would just be a lot of bowing and curtsying.

Mary McAleese is pretty hands-on with most people. Loads of kisses on the cheeks and bear hugs for most of the guests and the major figures at the GAA etc.

I nearly felt the Queen was thinking "one had better try to look a bit more human".

It's also worth noting that the protocols tend to be enforced / made up by the hangers-on and various annoying pedantic commentators not the Royal Family itself.

I think the Queen to some extent, but certainly Charles and the younger generation realise that they need to shake off the stuffy image and loosen up a bit and probably scale down day-to-day pomp if they are going to survive in the long term and be relevant to modern Britain.

I can't see that level of formality staying for ever.

Ireland's probably moved on a lot too in many ways, I can't imagine Dev giving people hugs!

bohsfan

Wow- he held the elbow of an eighty plus year old woman as she was been ushered around. So what if he forgot some royal protocol? In the moment he just reverted to how you would ensure any old lady was steady

Solair

bohsfan wrote: »

Wow- he held the elbow of an eighty plus year old woman as she was been ushered around. So what if he forgot some royal protocol? In the moment he just reverted to how you would ensure any old lady was steady

She was smiling away and not remotely objecting to it either. I don't think she gave a toss! It's the Royal equivalent of "train spotters" who get upset by these things

kevin99

bohsfan wrote: »

Wow- he held the elbow of an eighty plus year old woman as she was been ushered around. So what if he forgot some royal protocol? In the moment he just reverted to how you would ensure any old lady was steady

She is not any old lady and was quite capable of walking herseld without the mucker Brennan touching her. He's lucky he wasn't grabbed in a headlock by the British security agents and ****ed out of the party.

It is only a mucker who would breach all protocals thinking he's right and **** the rest.

He displayed a total lack of respect for Her Majesty. The reason she didn't react is because Royals never do. That's why they have so many security people around them.

The Mucker Brennan probably sat down afterwards and instead of paying for food and drink, opened his hang sandwiches and bottle of milk before taking his bike and cycling all the ways back to Kilkenny.

bohsfan

kevin99 wrote: »

She is not any old lady and was quite capable of walking herseld without the mucker Brennan touching her. He's lucky he wasn't grabbed in a headlock by the British security agents and ****ed out of the party.

It is only a mucker who would breach all protocals thinking he's right and **** the rest.

He displayed a total lack of respect for Her Majesty. The reason she didn't react is because Royals never do. That's why they have so many security people around them.

The Mucker Brennan probably sat down afterwards and instead of paying for food and drink, opened his hang sandwiches and bottle of milk before taking his bike and cycling all the ways back to Kilkenny.

Your real problem seems to be with anybody from outside Dublin. No point adding any fuel to your fire. Good luck.

kevin99

Solair wrote: »

She was smiling away and not remotely objecting to it either. I don't think she gave a toss! It's the Royal equivalent of "train spotters" who get upset by these things

Let the mucker Brennan try that with Obama and he'd be in Guantanamo shackled and caged under the midday sun.
And what were all those other nobodies doing in Croke Park? The Queen must have been totally pissed off having to meet all those guys and their wives.

Solair

He breached protocols yes, but I don't think it was intended, rather he just reacted as he would react to anyone else.

I'd say he's one of those people who'd hold you by the arm when talking to you too ... That usually drives me nuts lol

kevin99 wrote: »

Let the mucker Brennan try that with Obama and he'd be in Guantanamo shackled and caged under the midday sun.
And what were all those other nobodies doing in Croke Park? The Queen must have been totally pissed off having to meet all those guys and their wives.

Doubt it to be quite honest, Obama's pretty hand-on and wouldn't think anything of it.

Also, that's the Queen's job. She spends her life going to boring events like that and being introduced to hundreds of people. She's well used to it.

The tiara/hat probably connects to her iPod where she can listen to podcast of her favourite BBC Radio 4 documentaries while boring speeches are being made :P

kevin99

bohsfan wrote: »

Your real problem seems to be with anybody from outside Dublin. No point adding any fuel to your fire. Good luck.

People in Dublin abide by the protocols. Note I didn't say Dublin people, but people in Dublin, big difference. The mucker Brennan was up for the day and you could see it. Manhandling the lady. Next he'd be getting her to swing the hurl at the sliothar.
I will be watching our Tipperary and Cork brethren tomorrow to see how they behave towards Her Majesty.

Solair

kevin99 wrote: »

People in Dublin abide by the protocols. Note I didn't say Dublin people, but people in Dublin, big difference. The mucker Brennan was up for the day and you could see it. Manhandling the lady. Next he'd be getting her to swing the hurl at the sliothar.
I will be watching our Tipperary and Cork brethren tomorrow to see how they behave towards Her Majesty.

:rolleyes: - stop being such a regionalist! Every part of Ireland's perfectly capable of inadvertently grabbing a royal elbow.

A Dub in Glasgo

There are many things to get your knickers in a twist in life, this ain't one of them

jacool

Solair wrote: »

:rolleyes: - stop being such a regionalist! Every part of Ireland's perfectly capable of inadvertently grabbing a royal elbow.

But not every part has!

Cionád

More?

jill_valentine

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Its not a foul unless he pulls her jersey, otherwise its a fair shoulder.

It was silly, and a bit of an embarrassment, but that's all. You're not supposed to clink glasses when toasting the Queen either, and as we heard last night, she was all for that in the end.

Happyman42

Unlike protocols for meeting other heads of state, the protocols issued when meeting the Queen are designed to encourage deference.
There is no other reason for them.
Why would any person who believes in equality go out of their way to observe that nonsense? Why shouldn't you take somebody by the elbow if that's what you do with anyone else? I was brought up to believe that affectation is dishonest, so Nicky was just being himself.
Get over it Missus Windsor, you are not on your home patch now, we don't bite you know.

Solair

I don't think she personally had any problem with it or noticed it tbh.

The protocols were drawn up by the palace during the Victorian period, not by Lizzie 2.0 herself.

There's a lot of ridiculous stuff around state visits and around diplomatic protocol that belongs in the 19th century. It's not just about the Queen. A lot of it is really ridiculous stuff.

Take a look at the protocols section in the Public Administration Yearbook / Diary from the IPA if you want a taste of how crazy it is.

E.g. you are supposed to seat ambassadors in order of the year that their embassies were recognised!
I always wondered what would happen otherwise, they'd have a fight?

broders3

I have to agree with Kevin. Surely if you were going to meet the Queen you would at least check how to address her and your manner also. And its not a Dublin vs. the rest of the country debate as I am from Galway and I thought he looked an idiot. He wasn't leading around some random geriatric from St. James Hospital.

A Dub in Glasgo

broders3 wrote: »

He wasn't leading around some random geriatric from St. James Hospital.

The way that is phrased, it infers that he was leading around a specific geriatric :pac:

IRE60

kevin99 wrote: »

People in Dublin abide by the protocols. Note I didn't say Dublin people, but people in Dublin, big difference. The mucker Brennan was up for the day and you could see it. Manhandling the lady. Next he'd be getting her to swing the hurl at the sliothar.
I will be watching our Tipperary and Cork brethren tomorrow to see how they behave towards Her Majesty.

Jasus Kevin,

Is it any wonder the Country Folk refer to us a Jackines - you banging on there like a True Royalist (No offence to Royalists) or a royal apologist at least.

He didn't drop the paw or anything like that. He held her elbow - something he's accustom to doing. Lets not tear up the Good Friday Agreement on the back of that for FFS.

Here are my Thoughts:

Firstly, it wasn't a harsh challenge in the first place, a bit rough mind you, but it didn't deserve the straight red. Paddy Russell on a good day wouldn't give that to a Dub.

Secondly, off camera, HRH had been pulling n' Draggin out of Brennan all day long. I'd say he had had enough of it at that stage, so he was only get back a bit.

Thirdly: well personally I though it was a square ball myself as Brennan was already in the rectangle.

AKA: Lighten up Kevin.

flogen

There was a big ho-ha in the US media when Michelle Obama put her hand on the British queen's back at a meeting (last year, I think). As far as I recall Buckingham Palace gave out a big fat 'meh' when asked about it.

The media were the only ones that seemed to care and that seems to be the case here too.

Rigor Mortis

kevin99 wrote: »

Two points to make.

1) a major atrocity was committed by Michael Collins and his men who murdered 14 men that Sunday morning, some in their beds. But that part of history was never 'drummed into me' during history lessons at school.

2) Brennan should have known the etiquette or protocol. Would he grab Mary McAleese's arm in similar fashion?

I was not making an anti brit argument in the first point. You are right about Collins and that was in many respects the point i was making about the way history was tought to people in this country. The fact that this is something which was drummed into us makes the croke park visit hugely significant.

The thrust of my argument and i think many others is that in the grand scheme of all that has happened in the last few days your complaint is a very minor thing. It has offended you but not many of us. Still you are entitled to your opinion.

The anti rural rhetoric is unfortunate though.

rebel girl 15

Solair wrote: »

She was smiling away and not remotely objecting to it either. I don't think she gave a toss! It's the Royal equivalent of "train spotters" who get upset by these things

She twice tried to get her hand away from Brennan, she was objecting to it, but she would not make a scene, but would know that the protection would realise it and sort him

Solair

I think it's safe enough to conclude that it was unintentional though. He was just blissfully unaware that she has some issues with being grabbed by elderly GAA heads.

He's lucky she's a tad more laid back than her predecessor QE-I or worse, Queenie from Blackadder

2Scoops

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

She twice tried to get her hand away from Brennan, she was objecting to it, but she would not make a scene, but would know that the protection would realise it and sort him

That's some imagination you have there.

rebel girl 15

2Scoops wrote: »

That's some imagination you have there.

Watch the video and you'll see its not my imagination

amywise9

I agree with Kevin and Rebelgirl. Brennan really showed his thickness and lack of decorum for State events. Probably thought 'I will introduce her to my lads, my way and to hell with protocol'.
I never liked the GAA as an organisation.
Still don't.
I remember my brother telling me that he and other team members were 'frogmarched' to the top of the dressing room after a match and beaten about their legs and arses with a leather strap because they didn't play well for the school team.
The guy who beat them was a now deceased Christian Brother and GAA fanatic.
My brothers said he was from Offaly and every Monday morning their first class was Irish. Before the brother always read out the GAA results from Sunday and if Offaly lost, there would be hell to pay.
He spent lots of time in the class talking about how great the GAA was and made the boys learn off by heart all of the GAA officials etc.
My brother went on to university and met the brother at a match between Dublin and Offaly. My brother told him he was an effing gob****e and thick culchie!!!!

2Scoops

The anger here seems to directed at Nicky as an individual or 'country people' in general; nothing to do with what actually happened.

Green Back

I think the UK should declare war on Kilkenny.

amywise9

Sure all you have to do is watch 5 mins of an inter county hurling or football game to see all the pulling, punching and dragging that goes on.
Players at the receiving of deliberate hurl butts in the midrift. Helmets pushed down faces to stop the player seeing the sliothar.
Fellas coming on as subs and immediately shouldering the guy they are marking.
Makes no sense. Tribalism.
The sooner we rejoin the Commonwealth and outlaw these games the better for us all. We can then say we have truly matured and grown up as a society by playing cricket and croquet. And instead of horsing down hang and egg sangwiches with tea, we can nibble on cucumber sandwiches with a glass or two of Bolinger.
And instead of wearing priestly nylon macks, grey tweed pants and bogger boots when it rains we simply open our parasols to cover our white flannels and blazers.

Peadar_85

amywise9 wrote: »

I agree with Kevin and Rebelgirl. Brennan really showed his thickness and lack of decorum for State events. Probably thought 'I will introduce her to my lads, my way and to hell with protocol'.
I never liked the GAA as an organisation.
Still don't.
I remember my brother telling me that he and other team members were 'frogmarched' to the top of the dressing room after a match and beaten about their legs and arses with a leather strap because they didn't play well for the school team.
The guy who beat them was a now deceased Christian Brother and GAA fanatic.
My brothers said he was from Offaly and every Monday morning their first class was Irish. Before the brother always read out the GAA results from Sunday and if Offaly lost, there would be hell to pay.
He spent lots of time in the class talking about how great the GAA was and made the boys learn off by heart all of the GAA officials etc.
My brother went on to university and met the brother at a match between Dublin and Offaly. My brother told him he was an effing gob****e and thick culchie!!!!

This thread is about a man who didn't adhere to some ancient protocol on how to address the Queen.

I'm not privy as to how many representatives of the GAA the Queen met at Croke Park but let's say it was 100 for argument's sake so one guy out of 100 ignores protocol and suddenly the whole GAA are a farce and they're linked to the abuse that took place in the Catholic Church.

What the hell has Nicky Brennan or indeed the GAA at all got to do with some warped Christian Brother from years gone by?

listermint

amywise9 wrote: »

Sure all you have to do is watch 5 mins of an inter county hurling or football game to see all the pulling, punching and dragging that goes on.
Players at the receiving of deliberate hurl butts in the midrift. Helmets pushed down faces to stop the player seeing the sliothar.
Fellas coming on as subs and immediately shouldering the guy they are marking.
Makes no sense. Tribalism.
The sooner we rejoin the Commonwealth and outlaw these games the better for us all. We can then say we have truly matured and grown up as a society by playing cricket and croquet. And instead of horsing down hang and egg sangwiches with tea, we can nibble on cucumber sandwiches with a glass or two of Bolinger.
And instead of wearing priestly nylon macks, grey tweed pants and bogger boots when it rains we simply open our parasols to cover our white flannels and blazers.

I can safely say I have read Kevins and Your Posts, and they are bizarrely as boring as anyone trying to stir a big pot for reaction.

The pair of you don't operate for the Daily Mail perchance.....


I am near half asleep hear remembering what it was your wrote in the first place.

flogen

Amywise9: This thread is about Nicky Brennan and him putting his arm on the British queen - it's not a soapbox for you on your experiences with and opinion of the GAA.

To everyone else: Don't feed the trolls.

To be honest I'm not sure if this thread has any relevance to News/Media - it's probably more of an After Hours thing. I'll leave it running for now though and see what happens but if people keep going off topic it will be locked (and/or they'll be banned).

Nolanger

kevin99 wrote: »

What's that adage: you can take the man out of Kilkenny, but you can't take Kilkenny out of the man.

True, that's what I thought too. Embarrasing, GAA, gombeen of the highest order!