Do Irish voters know the difference between TDs and Councillor Roles?

Corsendonk

Just something that seems to come up often in the regional forums here is the role of the TDs and local councillors. Very often when people are complaining about local issues such as the state of the roads or water cutoffs one or two posters pop up with a reply asking the OP have they contacted their TD. Surely their local Councillor should be the first point of call?

We complain often enough about TDs getting involved in local politics but then we drag them into local affairs when we don't follow the correct procedure or is it just that Irish voters don't have a clear understanding of where the cllr role ends and the TD begins?

later12

Corsendonk wrote: »

Surely their local Councillor should be the first point of call?

Many TDs themselves encourage TD participation in local affairs, which is in part down to multi-seat constituencies. If I'm running in Dublin South (by the way, many wrongly assume this to be a rural phenomenon) and you're a local councillor in my area, why would I be daft enough to send my constituents to you, knowing that you could well be my running mate (read: competitor) next year and I might have given you a lot of grateful constituents.

Similarly, many of these problems can be reasonably serious and it i difficult to blame voters for going to what they perceive to be the top of the food chain to sort them. Nobody would realistically expect a voter lobbying for a genuine request to approach the middle man when the voter might have to pass by the constituency office of the 'main man' himself to do so!

So I think voters do certainly understand the difference, and that is the problem. The system has somewhat doomed itself to be a tribal one.

Denerick

I blame the citizens primarily; they want to be clients to TDs and for them to be slavish towards their momentary aims. I want parliamentarians like the great Edmund Burke, who felt that his political life was one of service to what he perceived was right and to the grander rather than the parochial interest. Unfortunately we do not live in the 18th century.

Seloth

One issue as well however is that the sheer size of an area a county may have to deal with compared to a Constituency.

For instance Cork County council have to handle a wide area where as there are several political areas within.

baalthor

They do understand the difference, particularly that councillors are useless for 'getting things done'
This is because:
1. Most of the issues people have are with central government services especially health, education and welfare where local councils have no competence.
2. Even in areas where councils do have a role, councillors may have no or limited powers.
3. TDs have far more power and influence, people (including ministers, heads of depts, etc) will pay more attention to them

dsmythy

I think Baalthor's post shows us what to do. More local powers.

Bottle_of_Smoke

As long as we elect our TDs on a constituency basis this will continue to happen.

no point complaining about it - a TD will get things done but a counciller won't

In netherlands they have a national list - much better way of doing things

Wildlife Actor

Just 7 posts and all the answers are all there, and yet nothing will happen.

It's plain as day that:

(1) constituencies are too small and there are too many TDs
(2) there are more TDs that can have any purpose in the Dail - 80% are voting fodder
(3) the Devil will find work for idle hands...so national politicians turn to local issues for something to do
(4) the availability of redundant TDs means that citizens can get at them
(5) the councillors should tell them to f*** off out of thier turf but they don't because TDs are the big boys in their parties and most councillors want to join them eventually, so they suck up to them.
(6) because of their availbility and willingness to work on local authority issues, doing local work becomes a duty which, if neglected leads to loss of seat.
(7) local issue then become the priority
(8) national issues are neglected.

So it's our fault to a degree (point (6)) but that is substantially a function of (3) and (4), which are, in turn, a function of (1) and (2). There is no point having more than 50 TDs.

Solution? Easy. We could have a list system as suggested above. Alternatively we could have 4 or 5 massive multi-seat constituencies. TDs for every half county are not necessary in order to protect small areas from oppression: their primary function is to legislate, and legislation, by definition, is to apply equally to all citizens. But TDs with a wider constituency base can protect small geographical areas anyway. 10 TDs representing Connaught out of 50 can protect the Aran Islands from genuinely oppressive legislation or policy decisions better than 5 out of 166, while seeing the issue in a wider provincial context.

But the turkeys won't vote for christmas....

limklad

Corsendonk wrote: »

Just something that seems to come up often in the regional forums here is the role of the TDs and local councillors. Very often when people are complaining about local issues such as the state of the roads or water cutoffs one or two posters pop up with a reply asking the OP have they contacted their TD. Surely their local Councillor should be the first point of call?

We complain often enough about TDs getting involved in local politics but then we drag them into local affairs when we don't follow the correct procedure or is it just that Irish voters don't have a clear understanding of where the cllr role ends and the TD begins?

First and foremost, if the public serivces were not as screwed and slow as they are then they be any need to go to politicians of any kind with issues. People know Councillors have very little power to do anything and TD's have more sway with dealing with their issues, So yes People know the difference between TD's and Councillors. Individual Councillors cannot get more money from the Government for Pot hole filling while TD's have more sway. I can contact the local office to get a pot hole fixed, but if there is no money for repairs then the TD's is the way to go.

mikemac

Love nor Money wrote: »

Solution? Easy. We could have a list system as suggested above. Alternatively we could have 4 or 5 massive multi-seat constituencies.

So now I can vote for party hack number 3 but or maybe party hack number 7 but everyone knows number 11 is the best option.

Voters will be given a list, won't have heard of a lot of the options and the only reason there are on the ballot is party HQ sent them into the area. Parachute candidates galore.

Is there a middle ground to what we have now to this list system? I hope so

goose2005

Love nor Money wrote: »

Solution? Easy. We could have a list system as suggested above. Alternatively we could have 4 or 5 massive multi-seat constituencies. TDs for every half county are not necessary in order to protect small areas from oppression: their primary function is to legislate, and legislation, by definition, is to apply equally to all citizens. But TDs with a wider constituency base can protect small geographical areas anyway. 10 TDs representing Connaught out of 50 can protect the Aran Islands from genuinely oppressive legislation or policy decisions better than 5 out of 166, while seeing the issue in a wider provincial context.

No, we need local authorities with actual powers and independent budgets, rather than every town, county and city having to beg goodies from central government.