Is it me or is the idea of Oni Akuma kind of ridiculous? Storyline wise

Leprekaun

I just don't understand why they've made Oni Akuma. I know that there was Shin Akuma in the past games but that was in Vs. games (Capcom Vs. SNK, Capcom Vs. SNK 2 etc.) so I kind of dismissed it but I'm not sure if it fits with the actual SF story because I thought Akuma already embraced the Dark Hadou (or for the pedantics, Satsui No Hadou) and thats why he's the way he is so to take it further just makes it silly for me. No doubt as a character, I'll be using him a lot when AE is released because I always loved the pure punishment Akuma could deliver so I'm sure Oni Akuma will be much nastier but storyline wise, I just don't get how he could fit in. I know some may say that if I feel this way about Oni Akuma then shouldn't Evil Ryu be taken out too? But Evil Ryu is a what if character if you know what I mean. Akuma's story is sort of solidified that he chose the dark side and that he is the ultimate Ansatsuken fighter (for those who don't know, the name of the fighting style all shotos use) so Oni Akuma doesn't fit for me. If they're going to make an alternative Akuma for the story then reverse the story of Ryu/Evil Ryu and get good Akuma into it although he wouldn't have transcended humanity! so he would be weak like Ryu, Ken and Gouken! :pac: What do you think?

EDIT: Sorry, I just checked fightersgeneration.com, Shin Akuma was tied into the storylines of SFA2, SFA3, SF3:2I

UberPrinny_Baal

Has there been any proper announcement of what Oni's deal is, story wise?

I've seen some people say he's a "whole new character", which either means to me that:
(A) He's called Oni, and has nothing to do with Akuma
(B) They mean design wise, he ended up being much further removed from the Akuma base character to be a "whole new character"

I do find it funny that Akuma means demon, and Oni means demon, so his name more or less translates into "Demon demon" or "Demonic Demon" or something else wonderfully redundant.

Doctor DooM

Considering the storylines in SSF4, it's no more ridiculous than most.

Goukens is "Akuma killed me but I had a sleep and now I feel better".

chopperbyrne

Well Akuma isn't in his name at all, so they'll probably say it's the manifestation of Satsui no Hadou and looks like Akuma because he was the one who progressed with Satsui no Hadou the furthest.

Leprekaun

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Considering the storylines in SSF4, it's no more ridiculous than most.

Goukens is "Akuma killed me but I had a sleep and now I feel better".

Good point . I didn't think of that.

Yeah, I know he was just called Oni to begin with but I had a look on tfg and they've called him Oni Akuma. I'm not sure if its official though so they could be wrong.

Orim

Leprekaun wrote: »

Good point . I didn't think of that.

Yeah, I know he was just called Oni to begin with but I had a look on tfg and they've called him Oni Akuma. I'm not sure if its official though so they could be wrong.

WTF is tfg?

Leprekaun

The Fighters Generation

UberPrinny_Baal

Okay, so I don't want to go out-and-out plot whore here on you Leprekaun..... but I will.

(1) Ryu and Ken's style has never really had an agreed upon name. Ansatsuken is just a generic Japanese name for a martial art that actively employs murder. You may notice they're referred to as the shotos (you did so yourself), this is because some of the earlier SF manuals listed Ryu and Ken as practitioners of Shotokan Karate (which is an actual martial art that has nothing to do with shooting fire from your hands)

(2) Akuma hasn't gone "to the dark side", he's more like the living embodiment of the "Playing to win" philosophy, ie: If you're not trying to actively murder your opponent in a fight with your every action, you're not 100% committed to it and it's therefore not a real fight. Plot-wise Akuma's actually pretty picky about who he fights, deeming most people unworthy. Also plot-wise, regular Akuma is when he's suppressing his true power (low health, low stun) in order to give his opponents some semblance of a fair fight. Shin (or true) Akuma, is just him when he's not holding back at all.

(3) Akuma only being willing to fight worthy opponents to death means that he has a rather small pool of actual opponents (that gets smaller as he wins) which sucks for a guy who likes fighting so much. This is the whole reason behind the Evil Ryu thing: He wants to turn Ryu into someone also willing to murder his opponent, so that the two of them can have a jolly good no-holding-back fisticuffs.

All this just sort of adds to my confusion about Oni Akuma. What's his deal?
Why does he look like half an electric jellyfish?

The "Eviler Akuma" thing doesn't fly with me, since original Akuma was never really evil. Just a perfectionist jerk.

Doctor DooM

Um... the Capcom fanboys should already know who the Oni are.

Why Jubei Yagyu wasn't in MvC with his own version of devil trigger I'll never know.



(The Oni are the bad guys in the Onimusha series, and when the main characters activate their demon powers they glow very much like Oni Akuma).

Ken B

Well if Oni's storyline isn't at least as good as 'War & Peace', then I refuse to pick him/her/it/them/us.

And furthermore, Capcom will be hearing from my representatives in the form of a strongly worded (possibly hurtful) missive...

Ramza

Oni isn't Akuma, (afaik) why do people keep thinking this

AFAIK...

Ansatsuken is a dangerous/evil fighting style with intention to kill, but Gouken thought Ryu and Ken a watered down version. Akuma is the only one who embraces it for what it is. Ryu's storyline is usually him obsessed with being the best and continually looking for new fighters. This is why he becomes over taken with Satsui no Hado (evil ryu)(metsu shoryuken to sagat chest), metsu hadoken in SFIV was actually quite funny since it was normal Ryu actually tapping into the satsui no hado...

Gouken didn't want to accept the killing intent of the fighting style so he formed and thought his own disciplined form of it

As far as Oni goes I dunno, as far as Onimusha goes it looks just like the devil form lol

Also **** Jubei, Samanosuke ftw

Orim

Ramza wrote: »

Samanosuke ftw

QFT

Doctor DooM

Ramza wrote: »

Satsui no Hado (evil ryu)(metsu shoryuken to sagat chest), metsu hadoken in SFIV was actually quite funny since it was normal Ryu actually tapping into the satsui no hado...


Also **** Jubei, Samanosuke ftw

Funny you should bring up the metsu, I can remember mentioning if Evil Ryu was in the offering shortly after SFIV's release because of it.

I also wondered if it was a coincidence they kept tying French people into Guile and if Abel had something to do with Remy but I sincerely hope that one is wrong

Speaking of Samanasuke, here's the original Oni- er- Onificating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QJSQo9mFKk

Azza

Shin Akuma is already in SSF IV along with Shin Gouken as secret bosses.

Oni (means Ogre) by the way and he is Akuma transformed either after mastering the Satso no Hado or being totally consumed by it.

http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Oni

It should also be noted the AI version of Evil Ryu and Oni are more powerful than the playable versions and are the Shin versions of both characters.

Doctor DooM

I haven't seen that wiki before. Is it fairly reliable as canon?

SirAuronDX

Azza wrote: »

Shin Akuma is already in SSF IV along with Shin Gouken as secret bosses.

Oni (means Ogre) by the way and he is Akuma transformed either after mastering the Satso no Hado or being totally consumed by it.

http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Oni

It should also be noted the AI version of Evil Ryu and Oni are more powerful than the playable versions and are the Shin versions of both characters.

From what i've read azza you're mostly correct. Akuma wraps his hands with rope and wears prayer beads (if they are somehow mystical and containing his power the hell if i know maybe thats why he took them from gouken/his master i can't remeber) to dumb down his strength and make sure he doesnt just kill people really quick.

Now as azza says this is akuma totally taken in by the entire power of the satsui no hado. even disgarding the way of the warrior even to become someone else named aka oni. we knew akuma would allow warriors weaker than him to live but as we've seen with oni he just wants to "Grind all that exsists underneath his heel". This is further proved via his win animation for when he defeats a player he holds them by the head to which point the camera freezes when it looks like he either crushes the opponents head with his bear hand or slams it into the dirts

Street fighter lore is weird. Maybe they realized that akuma couldnt kill anyone as hard as he tried (lol gouken,gen,bison EDIT: lol gill) so they made someone who could

Sairus

I'm going to go with:

Capcom Dev wrote: »

lol, y'know what'd be awesome? Eviler Akuma

Ono wrote: »

omg yeah

GorySnake

Orim wrote: »

WTF is tfg?

This is Evil Dan

Scavenger XIII

SirAuronDX wrote: »

akuma couldnt kill anyone as hard as he tried (lol gouken,gen,bison)

Add lol Gill to that list.

UberPrinny_Baal

I guess I can buy the explanation given on that Wiki, that he's been totally consumed by his killing intent.

Normal Akuma is willing to kill people for the sake of pure combat, but often doesn't.

Like in the Alpha series, Gen was ill and dying, and looking for a "warrior's death", so he picked a fight with Akuma.
Akuma nearly killed him, but when he realised Gen was terminally ill, he decided the fight was "unfair" and left.

So that goes to show that as much of a jerk as Akuma is, he's still abiding by some kind of personal code.

Oni it seems is just a crazy murdering lunatic.

Azza

Akuma is lame, all he wants is too die, yet he's too retarded to just jump off a cliff. Idiot has a rubbish track record of killing people too.

Sairus

Azza wrote: »

Idiot has a rubbish track record of killing people too.

Rose has the opposite problem. Keeps trying to kill herself and never quite manages it.

Doctor DooM

Whereas Guile COULD have killed Bison, but chose not to.

:cool:

Scavenger XIII

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Whereas Guile COULD have killed Bison, but chose not to.

:cool:

Don't know why he doesn't, he'll be back in a couple of weeks so it's not like he has to feel bad about it.

Doctor DooM

Scavenger XIII wrote: »

Don't know why he doesn't, he'll be back in a couple of weeks so it's not like he has to feel bad about it.

That's not the way America does it.





<Snigger>

Azza

Guile did not win the the second world warrior tournament. The actual winner is unknown. What is generally considered cannon is Akuma destroying Bison before the final match and then fighting the other finalist whoever it was. The outcome of that fight is also unknown.

Of course destroying Bisons body is pointless as his soul just keeps moving from body to body, so effectively he can't be killed. Just delayed.

A possible retcon to this was shown in the prelude trailer for vanilla SF4. In that the combined efforts of Ryu, Ken, Guile, Cammy and Chun-Li defeated Bison, or some sort of explosion weakened him to the point of defeating. Rather than face capture he decided to explode him self, obviously for ****s n giggles.

Leprekaun

Azza wrote: »

Shin Akuma is already in SSF IV along with Shin Gouken as secret bosses.

Oni (means Ogre) by the way and he is Akuma transformed either after mastering the Satso no Hado or being totally consumed by it.

http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Oni

It should also be noted the AI version of Evil Ryu and Oni are more powerful than the playable versions and are the Shin versions of both characters.

Ah right, sorry. Got my facts all wrong.

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

Guile did not win the the second world warrior tournament. The actual winner is unknown. What is generally considered cannon is Akuma destroying Bison before the final match and then fighting the other finalist whoever it was. The outcome of that fight is also unknown.

Of course destroying Bisons body is pointless as his soul just keeps moving from body to body, so effectively he can't be killed. Just delayed.

A possible retcon to this was shown in the prelude trailer for vanilla SF4. In that the combined efforts of Ryu, Ken, Guile, Cammy and Chun-Li defeated Bison, or some sort of explosion weakened him to the point of defeating. Rather than face capture he decided to explode him self, obviously for ****s n giggles.

I never said he won it, it's usually considered canon that Guile beat Bison down, nearly killed him, but walked away though sometime before Akuma did his thing.

"Although the circumstances on how Guile approaches Bison is sketchy, he manages to force Bison into submission and asks him if he remembers him or his friend Charlie. While Bison admits that Guile is stronger than before, he ignores the question and dares Guile to kill him if he's so intent on revenge. Guile hesitates and relents, realizing that he should not become the murderer Bison is. What happens next (whether Guile attempts to take Bison into custody himself or whether he leaves him where he is for some reason) is not exactly known, but Akuma "kills" Bison with the Shun Goku Satsu shortly thereafter."


Their rival convo in SSF4 could also be seen as Guile saying he's going to finish off the job... this time.

K.O.Kiki

How can Guile have conflicting feelings about killing someone WHEN HE'S IN THE US AIR FORCE

Azza

Thats not considered canon. Thats just Guiles ending.

The rival conversation between Guile and Bison in SSF IV could simply be referring to the event in the Alpha games.

Basically Alpha 1 was entirelly retconed by the events of later Alpha games. But everyones ending was the correct ending in Alpha 2 and 3, there was an ordered sequence to the endings but I can't remember it. Each character would beat Bison but he simply kept retreating to the Psycho Drive and return to fight the next character, until what was considered the final fight between Charlie and Bison, in which Charlie killed himself and Bison in order to destroy the psycho drive.

SF 2 which follows never makes it clear who the winner was. Although I think it was confirmed it wasn't Dhalsim. Bison never fights anyone in the tournament and gets killed before he fights the finalist.

The orginal SF 4 was similar to Alpha in that ever ending was considered cannon. There was a total of 25 Seth's and each Seth was beaten by each of the different characters. The primary Seth (15) was defeated by Bison and finished off by Juri. SSF IV didn't contradict the endings of SF IV but it did have the issue of there being more characters than there was Seth clones.

Scavenger XIII

This all begs the question of how the hell every alpha character beats Bison in canon when he was supposedly far more powerful at that point than in later games.

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

Thats not considered canon. Thats just Guiles ending.

The rival conversation between Guile and Bison in SSF IV could simply be referring to the event in the Alpha games.

Basically Alpha 1 was entirelly retconed by the events of later Alpha games. But everyones ending was the correct ending in Alpha 2 and 3, there was an ordered sequence to the endings but I can't remember it. Each character would beat Bison but he simply kept retreating to the Psycho Drive and return to fight the next character, until what was considered the final fight between Charlie and Bison, in which Charlie killed himself and Bison in order to destroy the psycho drive.

SF 2 which follows never makes it clear who the winner was. Although I think it was confirmed it wasn't Dhalsim. Bison never fights anyone in the tournament and gets killed before he fights the finalist.

The orginal SF 4 was similar to Alpha in that ever ending was considered cannon. There was a total of 25 Seth's and each Seth was beaten by each of the different characters. The primary Seth (15) was defeated by Bison and finished off by Juri. SSF IV didn't contradict the endings of SF IV but it did have the issue of there being more characters than there was Seth clones.

I've read in a couple of places that Guile's ending has become canon of all the SF2 WW endings because his ties so closely into him beating up Bison in specific whereas most of the others it's not so important. (Guile would not have his family at the start of SF4 if he didn't. ) But the canon is shaky at best so we're going to have to agree to disagree (i.e: you're wrong :P)

Azza

Guile went home to his family because Akuma beat him to the punch.

He thought Bison was dead so his mission was over.

Besides how can a character with just 2 special moves win a world warrior tournament....thats just retarded!