Lay of the Century

UrbanSea

Dubawi Gold is favourite for the Irish Guineas.

HigginsJ

UrbanSea wrote: »

Dubawi Gold is favourite for the Irish Guineas.

I kind of agree with you but, think the oposition is so weak he may win it. Horribly weak Guineas field. Shame.

TheMilkyPirate

UrbanSea wrote: »

Dubawi Gold is favourite for the Irish Guineas.

Reasoning please

HigginsJ

baraca wrote: »

Reasoning please

Runner-Up is the 2000 Guineas. Winner & 3rd not there. Neither are Pathfork or Cassamento (High in betting for 2000 Guineas)

Only Roderic O'Connor (Zoffany non runner/ Master of the Hounds doubtful) ran in the 2000 Guineas and he bombed in that. Slim Shady also ran but he beat him 7l & you'd say Slim Shady has no chance to reverse form.

Dunboyne Express has done well winning 2 Grp 3's but 2nd in the 2000 Guineas trumps that. With the field that is assembled he is deservedly favourite.

Here is the current betting.
http://www.paddypower.com/racing/future-racing/irish-2000-guineas

Its one of the worst Guineas in a long time.

UrbanSea

Baraca were you asking why he's favourite or why he's a good lay?

You know it's a weak field when Slim Shadey is around the 16/1 mark.

RichieLawlor

Laying the form horse in a weak race is a sure way to go broke

HigginsJ

Anyone know yet if Master of the Hounds is a definitvie runner?

TheMilkyPirate

HigginsJ wrote: »

Runner-Up is the 2000 Guineas. Winner & 3rd not there. Neither are Pathfork or Cassamento (High in betting for 2000 Guineas)

Only Roderic O'Connor (Zoffany non runner/ Master of the Hounds doubtful) ran in the 2000 Guineas and he bombed in that. Slim Shady also ran but he beat him 7l & you'd say Slim Shady has no chance to reverse form.

Dunboyne Express has done well winning 2 Grp 3's but 2nd in the 2000 Guineas trumps that. With the field that is assembled he is deservedly favourite.

Here is the current betting.
http://www.paddypower.com/racing/future-racing/irish-2000-guineas

Its one of the worst Guineas in a long time.

I understand why he is favourite higgins was just asking for urban seas reasoning as to why he is lay of the centruy.

UrbanSea wrote: »

Baraca were you asking why he's favourite or why he's a good lay?

You know it's a weak field when Slim Shadey is around the 16/1 mark.

Why he's a good lay US, Just curious as to why you think that? Seems to be a pretty weak field to me and only horse i can see troubling him is dunboyne express.

Dubawi gold is a different horse altogether at 3 to my eyes, Has really improved on two year old form and if it wasn't for frankel he'd be a classic winner. Hughsie said he knew he wasn't going to catch frankel but said he had to give it a go seen as it was the guineas said if he hadn't of went after him he would have still came second on the bit, don't know what to make of that myself but i didn't ride the horse.

UrbanSea

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Laying the form horse in a weak race is a sure way to go broke

Hardly the strongest form.

baraca wrote: »

I understand why he is favourite higgins was just asking for urban seas reasoning as to why he is lay of the centruy.



Why he's a good lay US, Just curious as to why you think that? Seems to be a pretty weak field to me and only horse i can see troubling him is dunboyne express.

Dubawi gold is a different horse altogether at 3 to my eyes, Has really improved on two year old form and if it wasn't for frankel he'd be a classic winner. Hughsie said he knew he wasn't going to catch frankel but said he had to give it a go seen as it was the guineas said if he hadn't of went after him he would have still came second on the bit, don't know what to make of that myself but i didn't ride the horse.

I don't think he still would have came second but that can't be proved or disproved.
The fact is that day was probably Dubawi Gold's day in the sun. Half of the field stopped trying when they knew they wouldn't catch Frankel.If that's the proper Roderic O'Connor,Casamento or Pathfork we saw that day then I'll eat my boxers.
Roderic was spared a hard race that day. No point giving him a pointlessly hard one. He's already a Gr.1 winner and will probably go to stud,he could come back over here and win the Irish race. If Dubawi Gold proves better than him over the season I will be astounded.

Dunboyne Express is still unexposed and interesting that all the money is coming for him,shortening for the Derby too.

Master of Hounds is the one that interests me. 5th in Kentucky. Didn't see the race so can't say how well he stayed,I'd be worried the race would come a bit soon for him,even with the Peakness stakes on the same day,but he did have to travel back across the Atlantic.

Let's not forget that Dunboyne Express 'disappointed' in the Racing Post,yet still finished about 10 lengths ahead of Dubawi Gold,with MOH further ahead of him.

Dubawi Gold's two Listed wins this year hardly screamed Classic winner,nor has the form been boosted to even group 3 level.

myfeelings

If the Oxx horse had run against Dunboyne Express in his prep we could have seen what Dunboyne Express was all about at 3 which is a pity although he completed his task easily but against unknown quantities. The ground might be a concern as his best runs are on ground with some cut although a maiden victory on good over MOH is nice on the cv. He seems more like a 10f horse to me so i'm sure he wont be looking for cover.

Dubawi Gold ran a good race in Newmarket and Dubawi's progress well and this Dubawi/Green Desert cross is nice. I beleive the horses behind only eased down when the 1,2,3 placings where gone so to me that was near a true running on that day. My problem with this horse is if Hughes thinks he has two much horse under him and makes it a test which i can only see favoring DE but this might not happen

Roderic is hard to know about and i certainly wouldnt touch him so really to me its a two horse race. MOH has the Belmont on his agenda i think

UrbanSea

Does anyone know what the story is with Zoffany? Still entered but no prices. He looks like a sprinter to me.

I think at the same time myfeelings it would be silly to write it off as a two horse race.

myfeelings

Zoffany was treated for colic yesterday so misses any engagements.

Its silly to say any race is a two horse race unless well theres only two in it but for me it is unless oxx's horse that ran second to Wachmans comes on for the run which could happen with a step up in trip as Invincible Spirits are versatile but first horse hasnt franked the form and too my eyes it was a weak race in france

hucklebuck

UrbanSea wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story is with Zoffany? Still entered but no prices. He looks like a sprinter to me.

I think at the same time myfeelings it would be silly to write it off as a two horse race.

Looks like he is entered in another race on the same day:

http://www.attheraces.com/card.aspx?raceid=328655&meetingid=&date=2011-05-21&ref=form&refsite=

hucklebuck

UrbanSea wrote: »

Dubawi Gold is favourite for the Irish Guineas.

I thought you were going to say Angelina Jolie:D

Dunboyne should be favourite in my opinion

RichieLawlor

UrbanSea wrote: »

Hardly the strongest form.

Are you serious. 6 lengths behind Frankel, who timeform reckon could be the 4th best horse of all time. It is the strongest form available by a country mile.

Horses improve from 2-3 and it's possible he is a vastly improved performer.

Morgans

Dubawi Gold also changed trainer. He may not be up to much, but the race isnt up to much and I'd be slow to take him on. Need to see who does turn up and the prices to make a definite call on it. I think he is a worthy and obvious favourite.

UrbanSea

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Are you serious. 6 lengths behind Frankel, who timeform reckon could be the 4th best horse of all time. It is the strongest form available by a country mile.

Horses improve from 2-3 and it's possible he is a vastly improved performer.

Excelerator was 4 lengths behind him in the Greenham. Does that make his form stronger?
Horses get flattered. Of course they improve,but will need to improve a lot based on his final run at two,as I said,nearly ten lengths behind Dunboyne Express.

RichieLawlor

UrbanSea wrote: »

Excelerator was 4 lengths behind him in the Greenham. Does that make his form stronger?
Horses get flattered. Of course they improve,but will need to improve a lot based on his final run at two,as I said,nearly ten lengths behind Dunboyne Express.

2 year old form sometimes get thrown completely out the window.

Like Morgans said he has moved to Richard Hannon now also

TheMilkyPirate

UrbanSea wrote: »

Roderic was spared a hard race that day. No point giving him a pointlessly hard one. He's already a Gr.1 winner and will probably go to stud,he could come back over here and win the Irish race. If Dubawi Gold proves better than him over the season I will be astounded.

Can't agree with this ROC was under a strong drive from 2f out and recieved 2 cracks of the whip at which stage dubawi gold had already gone 4 lengths clear of him and richard hughes was still only pushing along, Was beaten fair and square. Think your under estimating his level of improvement, He has switched stables and showed much improved form which isn't strange for a horse to do from 2 to 3. Could be the simple fact that ROC hasn't trained on.

UrbanSea

Perhaps I am.
I'll just have to see Sunday.

Goldcupfav

Special in Ladcrooks today. They went 11/4 on Dubawi Gold for a time.

Nulty

UrbanSea wrote: »

Perhaps I am.
I'll just have to see Sunday.

Its on Saturday

gscully

baraca wrote: »

Can't agree with this ROC was under a strong drive from 2f out and recieved 2 cracks of the whip at which stage dubawi gold had already gone 4 lengths clear of him and richard hughes was still only pushing along, Was beaten fair and square. Think your under estimating his level of improvement, He has switched stables and showed much improved form which isn't strange for a horse to do from 2 to 3. Could be the simple fact that ROC hasn't trained on.

Could also be true that ROC needed the run just like AOB's horses often seem to do. They'll get away with a G3 at The Curragh, but not a G1 at Newmarket. ROC seemed to get better towards the end of his 2yo campaign which suggests he would train on.

I think the 2000 Guineas shouldn't be read into too much because Frankel destroyed that field after three furlongs and none of the others ran their true race.

UrbanSea

Nulty wrote: »

Its on Saturday

Whatever,it was obvious what I meant.

Nulty

UrbanSea wrote: »

Whatever,it was obvious what I meant.

I didn't mean it like that. Just saying.

UrbanSea

I know. Sorry looking back my response sounded a bit pissed off.

hucklebuck

UrbanSea wrote: »

Whatever,it was obvious what I meant.

Calm down Mr Defensive, just because we know your Sky Plus secret

UrbanSea

I don't actually have Sky Plus

UrbanSea

Hope Roderic wins. Would love to see Joseph O'Brien win.

Dubawi Gold's form taken a bit of a hit there. Filly he beat a head this season beaten in a Listed race. We'll see now.

UrbanSea

Absolutely delighted. Well done Joseph O'Brien.

Denners.ie

Nice horse but would have been interesting if Dubawi Gold got the gap.

Hulk Hands

Im happy for him too, but does anyone else get annoyed with how when a youngster wins a big race they harp on for ages about what a great ride it was, eg today and Will TD at Aintree.

If they are on the horse the ride should get the exact same criticism/praise as if a normal jockey were riding.

UrbanSea

Don't think so.

edit:that was to Denners.

Johner

Dubawi Gold would have won in my opinion if he got the gap sooner.

UrbanSea

Denners.ie wrote: »

Nice horse but would have been interesting if Dubawi Gold got the gap.

Just looking. Poor ride by Hughsie,still horse wasn't good enough I think.

Denners.ie

He was finishing the stronger and lost a bit of momentum swinging out past the other Ballydoyle horses/blockers.

ROC only won by 3/4l, that wouldn't have been the case if DG got a clear run.

UrbanSea

Hahaha did anyone hear Ted Walsh's mic just been picked up?

''He'd have f*ckin shot him,he'd have shot him if he let him out''

UrbanSea

Denners.ie wrote: »

He was finishing the stronger and lost a bit of momentum swinging out past the other Ballydoyle horses/blockers.

ROC only won by 3/4l, that wouldn't have been the case if DG got a clear run.

Can't say for sure. ROC never saw another horse,seemed to have a bit up his sleeve.

UrbanSea

Has anyone seen worse coverage in your life?
About 4 times the mics have gotten mixed up where one person is speaking but you can hear the others talking aswell.
Your man was talking there and directed a question toward Mick Kinane and instead it went to Tracy Piggot talking ****e.

Nulty

Tactics beat Dubawi Gold, not necessarily a better horse.

Ballydoyle mafia know what it takes...

UrbanSea

If the horse didn't get a run then it wasn't tactics or any mafia type of thing. You don't have to move off your line to let another horse through if he's going better than you.
Reminds me of Micky Kinane on Geordieland in the Doncaster Cup about about two years ago. Horse was beaten but he wasn't moving out of the way,there's good place money to be earned.

If he did move off his line and obstructed him anyway he'd get banned. Just did what anyone would have done.

Nulty

UrbanSea wrote: »

If the horse didn't get a run then it wasn't tactics or any mafia type of thing. You don't have to move off your line to let another horse through if he's going better than you.
Reminds me of Micky Kinane on Geordieland in the Doncaster Cup about about two years ago. Horse was beaten but he wasn't moving out of the way,there's good place money to be earned.

If he did move off his line and obstructed him anyway he'd get banned. Just did what anyone would have done.

No one is suggesting that any rules were broken - just that it wasn't necessarily the best horse on the day that won.

UrbanSea

Fair enough.

Hope they meet again. Pity the rest of the field ran a shocker. Dunboyne Express and Murtagh's horse namely.

cson

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Im happy for him too, but does anyone else get annoyed with how when a youngster wins a big race they harp on for ages about what a great ride it was, eg today and Will TD at Aintree.

If they are on the horse the ride should get the exact same criticism/praise as if a normal jockey were riding.

You have to have some regard for levels of experience - mirror rides from Ryan Moore and Joseph O'Brien will invariably yield more praise for Joseph O'Brien as he is far more raw and far more experienced than Ryan Moore. Same goes for WTD.

I personally don't rate Joesph, I don't think he'll make it as a flat jockey and it'll be interesting to see if Magnier and Tabor force APO'Bs hand on the matter which I suspect they may if it costs them a Group race this season.

UrbanSea

From RP site:

Hannon watched the race at Goodwood and was puzzled by Hughes's decision to take a pull exiting the stalls, declaring that "he should have won".

He said: "I don't want to say too much, but why he sat on him out of the stalls I don't know. He got a long way back and thenmet trouble. He should have won.

"There'll be another day for him, but not in a Guineas. You are only three once."

Denners.ie

cson wrote: »

I personally don't rate Joesph, I don't think he'll make it as a flat jockey and it'll be interesting to see if Magnier and Tabor force APO'Bs hand on the matter which I suspect they may if it costs them a Group race this season.

The only reason that JOB will be taken off a horse is because of his weight. Same reason why he probably won't be a jockey in approximately a years time, nothing to do with talent.

Can't understand why Seamie was shafted from So You Think tomorrow, absolute joke.

myfeelings

It was a poor race Dubawi Gold was too far back,clipped heals and then just couldnt reach him. Roderic got lucky that no horse went with him up front i thought that Dunboyne Express would as it shouldnt have been a problem but he was ridden to conservatively for my liken

Harry Angstrom

myfeelings wrote: »

It was a poor race Dubawi Gold was too far back,clipped heals and then just couldnt reach him. Roderic got lucky that no horse went with him up front i thought that Dunboyne Express would as it shouldnt have been a problem but he was ridden to conservatively for my liken

I thought Richard Hughes gave Dubawi Gold a terrible ride.