ISSF Shoe testing rules and possible Air Rifle Target rule changes

demonloop

Slightly off topic, but the big rumour around Hannover was the proposition to change the air targets to outward scoring, to peg the scores back.

The printers can't make the circles any smaller on paper targets so its seen as the only option. The scores have crept up in AR, so might not be such a big surprise if they try to slow it down.

Sparks

That's a bit daft really dl. There's a third option right off the bat, which is to use decimal scoring in the qualification rounds. More work on paper, yes, but cheaper than everyone buying new gauges for paper, and the electronic targets don't all have to be reprogrammed and updated...

Mind you, if it's that or lose the shooting trousers....

Sparks

From the ISSF website (pdf link):

ISSF Enforcement Procedures for Shooters’ Shoes
For ISSF rifle and pistol shooters
Version 1; May 2011
13 May 2011 ISSF Shoe flexibility testing Version 1 - ENG

ISSF Shoe testing device

The new shooters’ shoe testing device approved by
the ISSF Technical Committee.

The ISSF Technical Committee recently approved a testing device for checking the flexibility of shoes worn by rifle and pistol shooters.

The testing device has already been used to test shooters’ shoes during the 2011 European Championship in Brescia and the Sydney and Changwon World Cups. Data gathered during this testing has been used to establish shoe sole flexibility standards that will now be enforced in ISSF Championships, beginning with the Munich World Cup in June 2011.

EQC during ISSF Championships
The approval of the new shoe flexibility testing device means it can now be used in equipment control checks in ISSF Championships, both in pre-competition equipment control and in post-competition checks. Boot and shoe testing for the remaining 2011 ISSF Championships will be done as follows:

• Fort Benning World Cup.
  Rifle and pistol shooters’ shoes will be tested with the new device on an advisory basis. Shooters with shoes that do not meet the ISSF flexibility standard will be advised that their shoes must be modified to meet the ISSF standard if they are to be worn in future ISSF Championships.
• Munich World Cup
  Rifle and pistol shooters’ shoes will be tested in equipment control checks and will not be approved for use in the competition if they do not pass. They may be modified to meet the ISSF flexibility standard and be rechecked. Boots and shoes will be checked in post-competition tests and will be subject to disqualification if they do not pass.
• Future ISSF Championships
  The testing standards enforced during the Munich World Cup will apply in future ISSF Championships such as the 2011 World Cup Final and Continental Championships as well as in all future ISSF supervised competitions and the Olympic Games in London.

ISSF Rules
The ISSF emphasizes that its rules clearly require shooters’ boots and shoes to be flexible. The key rule in this case is 6.4.2.1.1 that reads:

The use of any special devices means or garments that immobilize or unduly reduce the movement of the shooter's legs, body or arms is prohibited in order to ensure that the performance skills of the shooters are not artificially improved by special clothing.

ISSF Rifle Rules have an additional provision requiring that “the sole must be flexible at the ball of the foot” (7.4.6.3.2). Now that the ISSF has an approved testing device and test data from more than 700 boots and shoes taken during 2011 Championships, it is possible to establish an objective testing standard. The soles of shooters’ shoes must bend at least 22.5 degrees when a force of 15 Newton-Meters is applied to the heel area while the boot or shoe is clamped in the testing device.

The testing of rifle shooter boots with a precision testing device answers a critical enforcement need. Previously all rifle boots could only be tested by the very inaccurate method of applying physical force. The ISSF decision to also test pistol shooter shoes arose from recent discoveries that a few pistol shooters were using steel plates or other inflexible inserts in the soles of their shoes. This is a clear violation of Rule 6.4.2.1.1 that prohibits the use of any “special devices, means or garments that immobilize or unduly reduce the movement of the shooter’s legs, body or arms.” Steel plates or other inflexible inserts that are placed in the soles of shoes are special devices or means for unduly reducing the movement of an important part of the shooters body and are therefore illegal.

All National Federations and coaches are urged to be sure that shooters who are entered in upcoming ISSF Championships have shooting shoes that are legal according to ISSF flexibility tandards and are prepared for these new enforcement procedures

The new ISSF shoe testing device gives precise measurements of the flexibility of the shoe soles.

There's a lot of people ticked off at this for various reasons:

• calling BS on the allegations of cheating with steel inserts (as nobody's been DQ'd on that basis that anyone can find a reference to, and if they'd been caught they would have been DQ'd on the spot);
• 15nm is not a measurement of force, but a measurement of torque - and therefore longer shoes fail with a smaller force
• there's been no rationale given for the 22.5degree/15nm figures (we're told data was gathered, but how did that data lead to those figures?)
• the test damages the boots/shoes because of the way they're clamped and bent (shoes are designed so that the uppers move as the sole flexes - clamp them and you burst stitches in boots that cost a fair amount of money)
• the test doesn't specify the torque to which the clamp should be tightened or whether or not the shoes should be laced - both affect the outcome directly
• Pistol shoes give no support anyway as they can't come up over the ankle
• There's no indication on the machine as to where the toe of the boot/shoe goes in relation to the hinge which is going to affect the outcome dramatically.

Most of those could be fixed, but we're getting damn close to the Olympics to go mucking about with equipment control, especially as quota places have already been won under the old rules...

Looks like the athlete's committee gets its first real test early this year...

psf32

Had my shoes tested in Brescia and had bend them a lot by hand first just to get them passed.

Sparks

Pretty sure mine would pass since you could nearly roll them up at this point, they're so past it - but I'd rather see the test left till after the Games and properly thought out rather than releasing this idea now. If people can come up with six or seven solid obvious problems with the mechanics of the test (let alone the philosophy behind it) inside of a day or two of seeing it, the test's suspect. And now you'll have some people who qualified to go to London under one set of rules and some who'll qualify under another set of rules. It's hardly ideal

demonloop

Yeah, could have been just 'talk' but seemed to be fairly well known amongst the judges attending. Other rumour was the return of 50m prone for the fairer sex, starting at the CWG after Glasgow.

Sparks

I heard the idea being put about a few years back; I figured it had died the death of all silly ideas I guess not. But whatever about the finals format and the new EC rules on boots, if they change the targets at this point in the Olympic Cycle, with quota places already won, it'll make a mockery of London completely.

And while 50m Prone coming back for women would be a nice development, it's been made exceptionally clear in recent years that no new shooting discipline will return to the Olympic programme unless an existing shooting discipline leaves; and there's so much pressure on the programme already, that it's more likely that a discipline would just leave and not return, like Women's Skeet or 10m Running Target.

Besides, if we were to bring back a discipline, I think 300m 3P Free Rifle in a combined men/women match would be the more interesting discipline to introduce (though they'd never go for it, the range costs would be too high ).

demonloop

Don't think the AR changes were being talked about for this cycle, but definately plenty of talk.

The boot change has been left way, way too late IMO, and I can see problems with it, especially for the ladies. The only plus, if there can be one, is that existing boots can be made comply, and much more easily than cutting lumps out of jackets/trousers.

Sparks

Plenty of talk
That's how we wound up with the idea of losing the trousers and thinning the jacket last time. Too many judges talking and not enough athletes or coaches being asked for their opinion (and I'm saying that as a judge).

And amen on the boot change. Any test rig that runs into serious questions within a week on nothing but its mechanics should never have been released at all; and releasing after the quota places have started being won is utterly daft.

demonloop

Agreed on that one.

There was no EC in Hannover, but they were being really fussy about visors touching sights, and grips touching the jacket in standing.

I saw a few visors with cut-outs for the sights, something I mentioned (half joking) on here or else Stirton.

Sparks

demonloop wrote: »

There was no EC in Hannover, but they were being really fussy about visors touching sights, and grips touching the jacket in standing.

Yeah, the neoprone visors cause a problem with that, lots of people haven't noticed over the years and now they're getting caught.

I saw a few visors with cut-outs for the sights, something I mentioned (half joking) on here or else Stirton.

It's not that bad of an idea really, although it makes a mockery of the idea of not allowing the visor to touch the sights so that it can't act as another reference point

Sparks

Merged the ISSF rulechanges posts into one thread...

LCrawford

Same here in Benning about visors and handgrips.

Had a good perve at the boot machine yesterday. They are testing until torque rather than stopping at 22.5 so some boots are up to 33 etc while I was watching. So many settings on the machine for the clamps it is hard to know where the clamp should be relative to the hinge.

Aside from that there are only two machines so how do you know. You will be at competition already. Both Ray's boots failed on advisory and they both look like bananas. It is just another thing we will need to buy........

I wonder how they are worried about penguin walk as tv coverage doesnt start until after sighters.

demonloop

LCrawford wrote: »

It is just another thing we will need to buy........

Every cloud

Sparks

Euros to danish pastries, this'll be the Mk.1 unit, and within six months they'll have the Mk.2 unit out. Remember the stiffness gauge fun from a few years ago?