finally my turn to ask for some help

RoyalMarine

ok, everyone gets to make threads asking for help, so here's mine

I play random. (i wont be changing from this anytime soon, i enjoy the different races as i feel it helps me learn what counters units effictively)

granted im only bronze league

i came up against this silver player on the ladder a few minutes ago.

I won, but is there anything i could do better? (He wasn't the most talented player, lot of lings, static defence and queens)

This is a build i see a LOT when playing vs zerg, and i sometimes get caught out with beating it depending on how they use their spine's and queens...

so, be brutal and give some advise!

Orizio

Learn a build:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rush

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo

Always wall off against zerg.

RoyalMarine

i rarely wall off vs zerg as its very uncommon to get 6 pool'd and I do very well in spotting lings so i always get a forcefield down.

ive done the 4 gate rush a few times.

Orizio

I see absolutely no reason for you not to wall off (with the zealot on hold obviously). If he goes 6 pool or 7 pool or something you are basically dead, even if it is rare, there is no reason not to take the risk.

BlitzKrieg

This is a build i see a LOT when playing vs zerg, and i sometimes get caught out with beating it depending on how they use their spine's and queens...

so, be brutal and give some advise!

its the spanishwa build. very popular atm cause spanishwa is cleaning up in the pro leagues with it. Been a few commentary casts on it including a day9 special. I havnt seen many replays with him losing funnily enough.

Essentially he leaves himself very vulnerable to an early rush so he relies heavily on scouting to ensure he has the correct counter and he doesnt get gas until he has 2 hatch and over 30 supply.

You should be able to read it by the no gas when you scouted him (despite spawning pool/hatch being up) which meant the pool was for primarily queens and spine crawlers.

This also meant no speedlings.

Seeing this in a scout if you had gone for a heavy zealot push early on you might have done quite a bit of damage (no speedlings, no roaches, spine crawlers out of position.)

Thats why spanishwa emphasizes scouting (which this guy didnt do)

Your attack wasnt entirely without logic. You bypassed the spine crawlers and hit him hard and you got an immortal up. The immortal in theory should have been enough to tank all the spine crawlers, but instead you let the stalkers take the hit which was bad. When the immortal was taking the hits it took quite a punishment.

Of course immortals suck against zerglings.

so a better mix might have been immortal/zealot.

But yeah. If he goes heavy eco like this in future, you need to be quick and you need to know he wont have any gas so zealots actually > everything he has at this point.



Funnily enough I think I played this guy a few nights ago, the name looks familer and it was a reverse. I went spanishwa and he rushed me...

IRL_Sinister

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

its the spanishwa build. very popular atm cause spanishwa is cleaning up in the pro leagues with it. Been a few commentary casts on it including a day9 special. I havnt seen many replays with him losing funnily enough.

Essentially he leaves himself very vulnerable to an early rush so he relies heavily on scouting to ensure he has the correct counter and he doesnt get gas until he has 2 hatch and over 30 supply.

You should be able to read it by the no gas when you scouted him (despite spawning pool/hatch being up) which meant the pool was for primarily queens and spine crawlers.

This also meant no speedlings.

Seeing this in a scout if you had gone for a heavy zealot push early on you might have done quite a bit of damage (no speedlings, no roaches, spine crawlers out of position.)

Thats why spanishwa emphasizes scouting (which this guy didnt do)

Your attack wasnt entirely without logic. You bypassed the spine crawlers and hit him hard and you got an immortal up. The immortal in theory should have been enough to tank all the spine crawlers, but instead you let the stalkers take the hit which was bad. When the immortal was taking the hits it took quite a punishment.

Of course immortals suck against zerglings.

so a better mix might have been immortal/zealot.

But yeah. If he goes heavy eco like this in future, you need to be quick and you need to know he wont have any gas so zealots actually > everything he has at this point.



Funnily enough I think I played this guy a few nights ago, the name looks familer and it was a reverse. I went spanishwa and he rushed me...

??????????????????????????????????????????????

seraphimvc

RM i played vs your P/Z so i kinda know your style :P here is my 2cent:

as a random you have some safe opening which really shocked me, i always expect some sort of allin/tight timing attack from a random player as he usually only know how to play the race for the first 10mins. and thats exactly where i can see that you can improve yourself - learn to play some cheese, allin or a tight timing attack build.

i dare to say that you would do well if you are in higher league (even like master) because as you can tell lower league is all about cheesing each other. so like i said you either do cheese/allin/tight timing attack yourself to get to higher league or you learn how to defend different cheese (micro).

i feel like RM you basically play the game based on current metagame :pac: 6pool is less common now because everyone knows it sucks bigtime but the perfect counter to your 'safe opening' is exactly this kinda 'stupid cheese'.

also, didnt wall against zerg is a terrible idea :pac: you maybe lucky against some passive players but you are risking bigtime against some allin zergs.

btw spanishwa build is terrible, dont even talk about it. and yes i have seen him get pwned hardcore many times on ladder with that when he streams.

BlitzKrieg

btw spanishwa build is terrible, dont even talk about it. and yes i have seen him get pwned hardcore many times on ladder with that when he streams.

Orizio

seraphimvc wrote: »

RM i played vs your P/Z so i kinda know your style :P here is my 2cent:

as a random you have some safe opening which really shocked me, i always expect some sort of allin/tight timing attack from a random player as he usually only know how to play the race for the first 10mins. and thats exactly where i can see that you can improve yourself - learn to play some cheese, allin or a tight timing attack build.

i dare to say that you would do well if you are in higher league (even like master) because as you can tell lower league is all about cheesing each other. so like i said you either do cheese/allin/tight timing attack yourself to get to higher league or you learn how to defend different cheese (micro).

i feel like RM you basically play the game based on current metagame :pac: 6pool is less common now because everyone knows it sucks bigtime but the perfect counter to your 'safe opening' is exactly this kinda 'stupid cheese'.

also, didnt wall against zerg is a terrible idea :pac: you maybe lucky against some passive players but you are risking bigtime against some allin zergs.

btw spanishwa build is terrible, dont even talk about it. and yes i have seen him get pwned hardcore many times on ladder with that when he streams.

...how is opening four gate plus robo on one base 'safe'? At least I think thats how he opened.

RoyalMarine

that is how i opened

seraphimvc

Orizio wrote: »

...how is opening four gate plus robo on one base 'safe'? At least I think thats how he opened.

ok i just watched the replay :P my post was regarding my games with him (in which his Z opening was surprisingly safe).

if i watched it before my 1st post i will prob say the same thing as you did in your 1st post too ._. RM should just learn a standard 4gate timing.

by 'safe build' i meant, RM is using the current metagame to play his game. if he gets 6pool or any early lings/roach attack he autolose, but most people dont do that now. and when a zerg sees his weird wall and 4gates we all expect a 4gate push, but RM's 4gate is way slower than the usual ~6/7mins.

Jonny7

seraphimvc wrote: »

btw spanishwa build is terrible, dont even talk about it. and yes i have seen him get pwned hardcore many times on ladder with that when he streams.

He's 299 for 185 in grandmaster, he beat TLO in 4 straight games, yes he's not really in the competition circuit yet, but I'd hardly call that getting "pwned hardcore"?

The build is terrible? I think Artosis and oGsZenio would disagree with you
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65261

A lot of zergs using just the template for the build to get into diamond and masters