How much better is systema in ireland really

Deadpool

With the 1j limit is it worth paying 1300ish for a systema here in Ireland
Can someone who has one let me know please

Inari

The attraction to Systema, if I'm not mistaken, is more to do with its PTW (Professional Training Weapon) status, it being 1:1, and mimicking the features of a real rifle, such as needing to hit the bolt release when you reload after firing the last round of a magazine.

As to their worth in Ireland...for me it would be very much a case of "it's worth it if you want a PTW", however I fully believe that the niche of the PTW has been obliterated with the arrival of the GBBR because of, err, recoil.

If it were me, I'd buy a GBBR and use the rest of the cash for mags

Firekitten

Inari hit the nail.

Plus its the poser factor. What better way to get people to look at you on the skirmish site, than have a gun that costs about as much as most people's car insurance?


I think PTW's come standard with a RIS mounted tactical penis extention.

Decoy

I haven't used a Systema but I was lucky enough to review a Celsius CTW which is essentially a Systema clone, so much so that many parts are interchangeable between the two.

I loved the CTW but it's not without its flaws. It's expensive (but not nearly as bad as the Systema), needs lots of TLC, the mags are a nightmare (same for systema), because it's meant to be milspec you can only use milspec parts in some areas. I presume the same can be said of the PTW as they are so similar.

If you are a genuine milsimmer I would say get one, you won't be disappointed in the way it handles/fires. However, if you are a more general airsofter steer clear of the PTW/CTW, they will break your heart.

tudenham10

I've only been on the receiving end of a systema (Thanks Rooky!!) and I have to say there is a fantastic clatter off them when they're fired and with the 1J cylinder (the black one?), it's pretty much bang on!

Having tried the whole gbbr experience, I'd say the systema is streets ahead of it in that it's hop is reliable.

However, something is only worth it's value to those who want to pay it. They do take a bit of looking after but if you spend that much money on one and your other half finds out, I guess there'll be plenty of time for cleaning etc!

horgan_p

Well I'm in the process of finding one so I'll explain why :

1) The mosfet built in. Yes I can add one to my aeg.I know this already.
2) The cyclinder system.I can change up and down my fps as I wish depending on where I play ( disturbingly 70% of my airsoft is played in the uk)
3) The weight and feel of them. It's one of those intangible things.Cant explain it.
4) The tightbore out of the box. Again Yes I know I can add this already to my aeg.
5) the different reload with bolt release etc. A little bit of extra realism.
6) Yes they do need large dollops of TLC. I'm ok with that , I take care of my stuff.
7) Yes the mags are a pain in the ass - I'm ok with that too , most games that interest me have ammo limits anyway.
8) They need to be weatherproofed (or tackleberried as its known) , again not a big deal to me.
9) The reliability. Shot after shot consistency.

I've gone through upgrading my m4 to a ridiculous spec (magpul everything - fast gearsets etc.) , ditto my g36c , ditto my various ak aegs.
I spent €200 upgrading a vsr that cost me €210 to buy.I appreciate the difference though.Every time I shoot with it I smile.
I own an agm GBB M4. Cant really use it over here in a skirmish (cool down , reliability etc.).It sits in a box , but I plink with it. It also puts a smile on my face.

At the end of the day , I've been around enough AEGs to appreciate a quality piece when I see / use one.
I wouldnt use Lemmings 60 for instance , but I can appreciate the quality of it.I can also see why he loves it.
In the same way, I desire a systema PTW. I can appreciate the differences between it and an AEG or a GBB.I know it isnt for everyone , but thats ok.
I dont play for anyone else, I play to put a smile on my face.
And at the end of the day thats what matters most.

Lemming

horgan_p wrote: »

I wouldnt use Lemmings 60 for instance , but I can appreciate the quality of it.I can also see why he loves it.

*cough* you wouldn't? tut tut ....

Worried about the weight of it horgan_p? Sure who needs a functioning back and arms anyway? :pac:


In a poor attempt to justify my posting the above inane commentary to wind horgan_p up, the big attraction of a Systema PTW is twofold; the realistic operating behaviour and the quick-change cylinder system. If, as horgan_p has said, you travel a lot between different countries, it becomes very useful indeed. Pop the receiver, pull cylinder out, put higher/lower rated cylinder in. Close. Rock and roll. It's that simple, and the cylinders are colour coded for strength for ease of identification.

Yes they're expensive. And yes they're very pretty. It ultimately comes down to whether or not it will give you what you're after and that you can justify the price to yourself at the end of the day.



ps. the m60's just had a face lift horgan_p .... fresh TM EG1000s motor, new hop rubber, and a custom cut 6.03 madbull black python tightbore barrel at circa 570mm for that extra reach. Still sure you don't wanna play?

horgan_p

I saw an inokatsu recently on ta events forum for £400 - I considered it and passed on it.
Like the systema , it isnt for everyone.

Looking forward to seeing those upgrades in action real soon

Firekitten

As with all things, Lemon overestimates his barrel length....

its 520mm black python series two, with madbul red (supportguns need harder) hop, and an eg1000, and a new spring.

Basically, its now a sniper rifle with a box mag, precision accurate long range multideath


Naturally, I had to do it, because he doesn't know one end of his spring guide from his air nozzle.

horgan_p

Firekitten wrote: »

As with all things, Lemon overestimates his barrel length....

If anyones looking for a new sig .......

Lemming

Firekitten wrote: »

As with all things, Lemon overestimates his barrel length....

its 520mm black python series two

horgan_p wrote: »

If anyones looking for a new sig .......

Actually no, it was a 590mm barrel that was ordered. So there

Only about 25mm was removed from teh barrel length. How do I know this for certain? The original barrel was a standard 509mm barrel and sat quite some distance back inside the outer barrel. The new one sits pretty much just behind the outer barrel.

Deadpool

Thanks for the info lads

Firekitten

Lemming wrote: »

Actually no, it was a 590mm barrel that was ordered. So there

Only about 25mm was removed from teh barrel length. How do I know this for certain? The original barrel was a standard 509mm barrel and sat quite some distance back inside the outer barrel. The new one sits pretty much just behind the outer barrel.

And I have about 70mm around here somewhere I had to cut down, to make it reach.

NakedDex

Will you two quit fighting over the length of it and get out a tape measure already?


Anyway. I've handled a few PTW's, and as horgan_p said, they're not for everyone. I liked the feel and the theory but, much like my opinion on GBBR's, they're a lot of hassle for little gain.
The one alluring factor that always tempted me was the cylinder exchange system. Changing the power in a minute without any hassle was a huge draw for me with them, but other manufacturers are starting to recognise this and include it in the form of a quick spring change system (though certain support guns have had this for ages too).

As a system, it's admirable, but the price seems somewhat unjustifiable. I would like one, but not at those prices. For those prices, I'd want it to do a lot more.

CpcRc

NakedDex wrote: »

For those prices, I'd want it to do a lot more.

Like cook,clean and do your tax returns maybe? haha.

I've not used a systema, but I know two lads that do that I skirmish with. And they are usually the best performing AEGs on the entire skirmish field on that day. I've been shot at range by one of them numerous times while trying to sneak around their base.

<snip>

Back to the topic; yes, they look good, preform well and have features that other AEGs don't. But they are not perfect and you have to wonder if you're willing to pay the expensive cost. It might be worth seeing how much it costs to build an AEG with similar performance.

Firekitten

Why would you WANT to quick change your barrel in airsoft?

I mean, really... what is this, afganistan?

CpcRc

Firekitten wrote: »

Why would you WANT to quick change your barrel in airsoft?

I mean, really... what is this, afganistan?

Sorry, that was a typo, has been corrected now. I'm a little sleepy so not too alert on the typing.

Firekitten

again, ultra useful in a country with a 1j limit...

even if you went to say the uk to play...the 20 fps gain of a 350 cylinder is... aproximately as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

Mando Commando

Quick question folks, what are your feelings on the notion of buying a Systema gearbox for, say e300 and using it in an "Common" or "Garden" AEG?

Mando Commando

Does that even work?

NakedDex

€300 for a gearbox is ridiculous. I don't care if it does 40rps and sounds like angels laughter, it's still just a gearbox. You can pick up an entire rifle for that money, nevermind an equally specced gearbox by another manufacturer for a quarter of the price.

Mando Commando

Pretty steep alright!

Firekitten

I hear systema gearboxes can rock a crying baby to sleep with thier tappet plate.

Inari

CpcRc wrote:

After a while, the two lads with the systemas were tired of this playing unfairly, so they went to their cars and installed the strongest cylinder available for the systema (Not sure which colour). They then proceeded to teach the other team the error of their ways. To conclude, those players didn't come back again or not with over the limit AEGs anyway. Lesson learned.

Hang on, you're effectively condoning the use of an ILLEGAL FIREARM to teach people a lesson.

Why did the Systema owners even have the more powerful cylinders with them?

I'm sorry, but I can't help but address this - this is one of the dangers of quick change systems, whether it be ICS split gearbox, F2000 quick spring change, or Systema cylinder swap...the idea of people playing with hot guns is not in anyway good, nor should it be encouraged, irrespective of whatever 'lesson' is to be taught.

This may come across as harsh, and for that I do sincerely apologise, however the story just rubbed me completely the wrong way, and does not exactly cast Airsoft in a favourable light

Puding

Its a valid concern it is not unknown for people to take a more powerful cylinder with them and hot swap in the field

at some events in the us ptws are actually not allowed due to this problem

Firekitten

It's becoming an issue tbh... my sa80, tar-21 and m249 all have quick change springs (All Ares), and people are wary about that... Again, its a honesty deal, and a random chrono winner.

random cronoing will make them wary to slap a bigger spring in the gun and not get caught.... It works well in the UK where quick change springs and systemas are rife.

CpcRc

Inari wrote: »

Hang on, you're effectively condoning the use of an ILLEGAL FIREARM to teach people a lesson.

Why did the Systema owners even have the more powerful cylinders with them?

I'm sorry, but I can't help but address this - this is one of the dangers of quick change systems, whether it be ICS split gearbox, F2000 quick spring change, or Systema cylinder swap...the idea of people playing with hot guns is not in anyway good, nor should it be encouraged, irrespective of whatever 'lesson' is to be taught.

This may come across as harsh, and for that I do sincerely apologise, however the story just rubbed me completely the wrong way, and does not exactly cast Airsoft in a favourable light

I apologise if it sounded like I was condoning the use of an illegal firearm to teach a person a lesson. I know that two wrongs don't make a right!

Gordy6040

Firekitten wrote: »

Inari hit the nail.

Plus its the poser factor. What better way to get people to look at you on the skirmish site, than have a gun that costs about as much as most people's car insurance?


I think PTW's come standard with a RIS mounted tactical penis extention.

Halarious

$kilkenny

this question is abit like asking someone are lamborghinies any good in ireland?
of course they are!!
but a BMW is a good bit cheaper and still does the same thing...
but yet if you want a lamborghini please get one
if you want a car get a fiesta
if you want a lovely car get a BMW
personnel choice plays a huge factor in people wanting systemas.. i wouldnt like one as i could just buy a ICS split gearbox(which is really cool) and spend say 300 euro on it and with less than half the price i have an extremely unique gun with the same performance as a systema.

people want a fast car? get a BMW or an Audi.. you want a car thats moreless the exact same with a few more gizmos and gadgets like a lambo but will stil serve the same purpose as a fiesta thats no problem at all....

still need to try a systema though.......

NakedDex

$kilkenny wrote: »

people want a fast car? get a BMW or an Audi..

Clearly you've never driven an X3, X5, A4 or A1


Anyway, to address the quick change cylinder issue; when I mentioned it was a draw for me personally, I meant from curiosity of function. I'd have no use for a <1J cylinder, but I'd be interested to get a >1J cylinder and tune it down for CQB use, say, or have cylinders tuned at 10fps apart at a controlled temperature/atmosphere to compensate for out ridiculous conditions, thereby giving me an option to bring my 290fps rifle to 320fps should it be more humid or on a site at a higher altitude (attendees of the first Gathering event will understand that more than most).

Firekitten

We should just glue bbs to garden canes like the old days.

NakedDex

I remember when bb's was country slang for blackberries. We should all go back to footing turf in the bog and drinking tea from a TK lemonade bottle.

Firekitten

Dex finally shows his true Culchie colours :P

insomniac32

Firekitten wrote: »

We should just glue bbs to garden canes like the old days.

Ye but you probably had cheaters back then swapping out the cane for a shtick!

Firekitten

Oh no, these were the days of honour in airsoft. An airsofters word was thier honour, and to break it was punishable by sinbin. The cry of 'hit' carried weight across the skirmish field, and doors were carefully held open.

thermo

CpcRc wrote: »

The quick change cylinder mechanism is a huge draw for them too like others have said before. It certainly has its uses.
Here's a story, one day a team of players who were from another country, but lived in Ireland, came to play at a site. They used heavier BBs for the chrono and played with AEGs that were way over the limit.
After a while, the two lads with the systemas were tired of this playing unfairly, so they went to their cars and installed the strongest cylinder available for the systema (Not sure which colour). They then proceeded to teach the other team the error of their ways. To conclude, those players didn't come back again or not with over the limit AEGs anyway. Lesson learned.

* DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING ILLEGAL. (If you are unsure about legality, PM a mod)

* There will be no discussion of airsoft greater than 1 joule.

However - discussion of Airsoft over 1 joule to be used overseas and not upgraded within Ireland or to be used within Ireland is permissible.(still to be decided)

above taken from the charter guys, please keep within the rules and on topic.

CpcRc

Sorry,meant to delete that.

TheDoc

I'd be very muhc in favour of getting one.

In four years I've been searching for a rifle that ticks the following boxes.

Range
Accuracy
Reliability
Excellent snap sound
Consistent Semi auto fire.

Now in those 4 years, I've probably spent about 2-2.5 grand trying to find that rifle.

Thinking back, buying a Systema would have ticked those boxes and SAVED me money. I just cant pull myself to spend that money on a gun like that, which would sincerely be wasted over here, although I'm being more and more tempted by the notion.

I've handled only ever one through my time working with airsoft guns, but I've handled a **** load out on the field. The gaming area in Sweden was littered with them and you can see why.

When used properly, tweaked minorly I havnt seen anything come close

Shiva

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd be very muhc in favour of getting one.

In four years I've been searching for a rifle that ticks the following boxes.

Range
Accuracy
Reliability
Excellent snap sound
Consistent Semi auto fire.

Now in those 4 years, I've probably spent about 2-2.5 grand trying to find that rifle.

Thinking back, buying a Systema would have ticked those boxes and SAVED me money. I just cant pull myself to spend that money on a gun like that, which would sincerely be wasted over here, although I'm being more and more tempted by the notion.

I've handled only ever one through my time working with airsoft guns, but I've handled a **** load out on the field. The gaming area in Sweden was littered with them and you can see why.

When used properly, tweaked minorly I havnt seen anything come close

Lets be honest Doc...any rifle you touch just falls apart within a few days.

If you bought a Systema, you'd just break a very expensive rifle, rather than a less expensive one

Firekitten

To be honest, ive used and seen a lot of systemas over the years, and the accuracy and range leaves something to be desired in my book. I've seen FAR better from other guns. Reliability? Its been pretty bad to be honest. The 08 model like to eat thier motor, others have eaten gears, or had dodgy hops. And naturally most parts are systema originals... and have to be directly replaced, so systema dont feel like repairing problems they can make money on in spares.

One could tick the boxes today, that doc highlights. Fairly easily really. The stopping after the last mag, using the bolt release... meh, trivial trinket to me. The other factors, and systemas history of unreliability dont endeer me to them. All jokes aside. I honestly think you can do better for less.