Does my driving suit a petrol or Diesel?

flyingsnail

I would really appreciate your input on this. I have pretty much decided on getting a mondeo and will hopefully get one for around 4K. Whats left to decide is to get a petrol or diesel. I am leaning towards a diesel but I would like outside input.

My driving breaks down like this

During most weeks I do about 10-15 miles around town a lot of which tends to be stop start traffic. But quite often the car can go 2-3 days without moving.
3-4 times a month I will do a return trip to Dublin. 244 miles each trip
1-2 times a month I will do a return trip to abbeyleix, 138 miles each trip. for a total of about 1000 miles a month.

Plug

I'd go for the petrol myself. Cheaper in the long run. Try get a zetec at least though.

johnos1984

Petrol without a doubt

shawnee

Would be inclined to recommend Petrol Have driven diesel most of my life. See the price of diesel creeping quite close to petrol at present and as I am now only doing around 12k miles per annum and reverting to petrol.:D Easier to buy low mileage and quality secondhand petrol cars than similar type diesels :rolleyes::rolleyes:

johnos1984

Diesel being cheap to run when you are covering low miles is an illusion brought about by good economy figures.

People forget however than pre 2008 then are expensive to tax (generally they are around 2l), they tend to be higher mileage when used. Insurance can be more expensive as insurers expect you will be covering big mileage.

The biggest kick in the stones comes when you have to service the car, more expensive than petrol and when an expensive to replace part fails you will know all about it.

Still people believe they are cheaper to run if they are covering small miles.

I have a diesel OP and its great.......however I do more than 20k miles a year and I have to pay for it all myself in case anyone thinks I am being unfair about Petrol VS Diesel

flyingsnail

Plug wrote: »

Try get a zetec at least though.

Will do,

thanks guys petrol it is.

Ardennes1944

Get a Mazda 6 though

kiddums

I'm wondering this myself.

I'm doing about 16k miles a year.
I travel 25 miles to work everyday.
Another 10-15 every saturday.
About 30 or so every sunday.
And then every week or 2 I make a 90 mile round trip.
Car is used every single day.

I'm thinking I might upgrade to Diesel when I get the money?

I do 10,000miles/year, a diesel that averaged 40mpg (I had one before that did 37mpg on my current commute, it wasn't intercooled, an intercooled one would have done 40+ easy) would save me €1500/annum on fuel. Depending on what diesel you buy there is a good chance it will be just as cheap as a petrol to service and maintain. Boards.ie is gone a bit anti diesel really, there are fresh enough yokes out there without DPFs etc that don't give injector trouble and don't mind doing low enough miles.

user1842

Im thinking of buying a 08 Golf 1.9 Diesel primary for the cheap tax rate of €156.

The car will do under 10,000 km a year and will not be used everyday.

Is this a good idea? Is diesel too much trouble and is petrol a better idea?

I currently have a 05 Mazda 3 and its basically eats petrol (sometimes I think there might be a hole in the tank )

Leonard Hofstadter

With all that motorway driving, things like the DPF and DMF won't be put under too much stress. I don't know what kind of Mondeo diesel you'd get for 4k though, probably one with a lot of miles under the bonnet. The older TDdi is more reliable, they can do big mileage without problems and there are no injectors etc to be worrying about.

If the OP looks at buying a petrol, he/she will need to get the swirl flaps removed, because they can break off and if they do it writes off the engine. They normally start rattling before that happens to give you advance notice to do something about it! They can be fond of burning oil too.

Apart from that, they're a great car.

Also consider a Mazda 6 (but NOT the diesel - they're a disaster), they're nearly as good as a Mondeo but a bit more reliable (best car in the class for reliability along with the Honda Accord), just make sure if you're looking at a Mazda 6 you don't go next nor near the diesel, the petrols are bulletproof though!

kiddums

RoverJames wrote: »

I do 10,000miles/year, a diesel that averaged 40mpg (I had one before that did 37mpg on my current commute, it wasn't intercooled, an intercooled one would have done 40+ easy) would save me €1500/annum on fuel. Depending on what diesel you buy there is a good chance it will be just as cheap as a petrol to service and maintain. Boards.ie is gone a bit anti diesel really, there are fresh enough yokes out there without DPFs etc that don't give injector trouble and don't mind doing low enough miles.

I'm getting 35-40MPG out of my 1l petrol (and its a heavy car). Your saying I'd need an intercooled diesel to get better than that?

I'd be looking at something like a mondeo, A4, passat, bora. I want something bigger. Under 2l for the tax and TDI, thats my requirements.
How do i tell if it's intercooled or not tho?
And how do i tell if it has DPF? (I'm not even sure what that is)
Do I just check it out for each model I'm looking at?

keithclancy

One plus for me is the Range, I get 800-900 km out of a Tank, whereas in a 1.4 Petrol I'm only getting 500 - 600.

If your not doing over 20,000km / year its not worth it.

Although whats this about servicing costs being higher ?

Oil Filter, Air filter, Oil is no more expensive on a Diesel than a Petrol.

Big savings come on long motorway runs in a Diesel.

kiddums

kiddums wrote: »

I'm getting 35-40MPG out of my 1l petrol (and its a heavy car). Your saying I'd need an intercooled diesel to get better than that

The thing I had was ancient, all modern stuff is intercooled I would think.

keithclancy wrote: »

Although whats this about servicing costs being higher ?

Don't think it's the case either but lots of folk do though.

kiddums

RoverJames wrote: »

The thing I had was ancient, all modern stuff is intercooled I would think.

Modern as in <10 years or newer than that even?

Sorry, I'm such a n00b at all this.

kiddums

kiddums wrote: »

Modern as in <10 years or newer than that even?

00 on and earlier for the stuff you mentioned. I averaged 45 ish mpg from a 2005 Mondeo 90bhp when I was on the road for a year.

TestTransmission

keithclancy wrote: »

.

Although whats this about servicing costs being higher ?

RoverJames wrote: »

T



Don't think it's the case either but lots of folk do though.

Said alot round here but I've never owned a diesel so I wouldn't have a clue regarding diesel servicing costs.Anyone any idea why this is said quite a bit?

TestTransmission

TestTransmission wrote: »

Said alot round here but I've never owned a diesel so I wouldn't have a clue regarding diesel servicing costs.Anyone any idea why this is said quite a bit?

Nope, but it is said a lot. The difference is servicing costs would be minimal if any. Oil change intervals are much of a muchness, so too the price of filters, no modern petrol takes crap oil so the price of the oil isn't a big difference. Fuel filter on the diesel is changed more often than on a petrol but the diesel has no spark plugs, heater plugs are an extra cost every few years.

If the diesel gives trouble fair enough but actual servicing I don't see the issue.

GTE

RoverJames wrote: »

I do 10,000miles/year, a diesel that averaged 40mpg (I had one before that did 37mpg on my current commute, it wasn't intercooled, an intercooled one would have done 40+ easy) would save me €1500/annum on fuel. Depending on what diesel you buy there is a good chance it will be just as cheap as a petrol to service and maintain. Boards.ie is gone a bit anti diesel really, there are fresh enough yokes out there without DPFs etc that don't give injector trouble and don't mind doing low enough miles.

Yeah, I tend to think that if you can get an old enough car in terms of tech then at service time all you need to do are wear and tear bits and the usual.

The only deciding factor I can think of is the tax costs.
I only do 10,000 miles a year in my old diesel and its been pretty cheap as there is nothing big and fancy on it to break.

I would be confident to say that a petrol with cheaper tax couldn't touch a 55mpg diesel.

GTE

kiddums wrote: »

I'm getting 35-40MPG out of my 1l petrol (and its a heavy car). Your saying I'd need an intercooled diesel to get better than that?

I'd be looking at something like a mondeo, A4, passat, bora. I want something bigger. Under 2l for the tax and TDI, thats my requirements.
How do i tell if it's intercooled or not tho?
And how do i tell if it has DPF? (I'm not even sure what that is)
Do I just check it out for each model I'm looking at?

Older generation VAG diesels would be what I know the best and with the A4, Passat and Bora you will be fine with regards to the intercooling and Im almost sure the DPF.

The DPF is a filter that gets rid of the tiny soot and dirt particles that a diesel chucks out the exhaust pipe. The problem with these systems is that they need heat to burn off these deposits and many short stop start trips do not suit this. Your style of driving may not suit it either, though, having not experienced this personally I would wonder if your motorway trips would be enough to clean the system out well enough if its not being used too much for short journeys in between.

I am of the opinion, as per my last post, that VW/Audi/Skoda diesels from about 1998 to 2002 are the best of the bunch. They are slower but I think they are the most reliable. You can add younger Skodas into that as I think they ran the older tech diesels for longer. I have no clue about Seat.

flyingsnail

dam it, now I am confused again.

shawnee

bbk wrote: »

Older generation VAG diesels would be what I know the best and with the A4, Passat and Bora you will be fine with regards to the intercooling and Im almost sure the DPF.

The DPF is a filter that gets rid of the tiny soot and dirt particles that a diesel chucks out the exhaust pipe. The problem with these systems is that they need heat to burn off these deposits and many short stop start trips do not suit this. Your style of driving may not suit it either, though, having not experienced this personally I would wonder if your motorway trips would be enough to clean the system out well enough if its not being used too much for short journeys in between.

I am of the opinion, as per my last post, that VW/Audi/Skoda diesels from about 1998 to 2002 are the best of the bunch. They are slower but I think they are the most reliable. You can add younger Skodas into that as I think they ran the older tech diesels for longer. I have no clue about Seat.

Basically , all the more modern diesels are far more complicated and between Dpf, dmfs, waterpums and air fins. When I drove diesels of the 90's they continued for 400k miles and generally didn't stop provided you changed the oil. They were also quite economical . With the introduction of the faster turbo diesels these cars are much more complicated and indeed temperamental. Older diesels would run on anything that resembled oil, some would even run on veg oil. I know of several who had to replace injectors at 100k and less because of incorrect fuel. Progress

keithclancy

shawnee wrote: »

Basically , all the more modern diesels are far more complicated and between Dpf, dmfs, waterpums and air fins. When I drove diesels of the 90's they continued for 400k miles and generally didn't stop provided you changed the oil. They were also quite economical . With the introduction of the faster turbo diesels these cars are much more complicated and indeed temperamental. Older diesels would run on anything that resembled oil, some would even run on veg oil. I know of several who had to replace injectors at 100k and less because of incorrect fuel. Progress

The 1.9 TDI will run on Veg oil.

evoline

bbk wrote: »

Older generation VAG diesels would be what I know the best and with the A4, Passat and Bora you will be fine with regards to the intercooling and Im almost sure the DPF.

The DPF is a filter that gets rid of the tiny soot and dirt particles that a diesel chucks out the exhaust pipe. The problem with these systems is that they need heat to burn off these deposits and many short stop start trips do not suit this. Your style of driving may not suit it either, though, having not experienced this personally I would wonder if your motorway trips would be enough to clean the system out well enough if its not being used too much for short journeys in between.

I am of the opinion, as per my last post, that VW/Audi/Skoda diesels from about 1998 to 2002 are the best of the bunch. They are slower but I think they are the most reliable. You can add younger Skodas into that as I think they ran the older tech diesels for longer. I have no clue about Seat.

You are 100% right here. Just google 'dpf problems' and you will see a whole bunch of links about it. New common rail diesels suck but as it was not enough new Euro regulations forced manufactures to fit these diesels with a nasty thing called DPF.
This thing cause a lot of troubles e.g if you not driving car "properly" DPF will clogged up and you will pay dealer for "forced regeneration". Another problem you will likely get driving them (depends on manufacture, but Japanese cars esp prone to it) is oil pollution. If for example you driving a car and it started regeneration but you totally unaware of it turned off the engine, the diesel used to clean DPF ends up in an oil sump . Mazdas even have dreaded X mark on a dipstick which shows that there too much diesel in oil. Apart from that you have to use crappy but very expensive low ash mineral oil ACEA C1, which cost as much as very good syntetic one.
If DPF fail it is not covered even on brand new cars because it is just a filter (worth >1000 euro)
German cars have separate tank with very expensive additive which you have to refill every 20 k km to clean DPF
The gov put a low tax system for these crappy diesels but you may end up paying more in a long term.
My advice if you see any diesel car with DPF for sale RUN AWaAY!!!

Merch

Any idea which octavias didnt have a dpf? the newer mark? are all the 1.9's TDI (turbo charged?) or are there non turbo versions?
I kept hearing about PD engines as opposed to common rail, any newer engines not have a dpf?

user1842

evoline wrote: »

You are 100% right here. Just google 'dpf problems' and you will see a whole bunch of links about it. New common rail diesels suck but as it was not enough new Euro regulations forced manufactures to fit these diesels with a nasty thing called DPF.
This thing cause a lot of troubles e.g if you not driving car "properly" DPF will clogged up and you will pay dealer for "forced regeneration". Another problem you will likely get driving them (depends on manufacture, but Japanese cars esp prone to it) is oil pollution. If for example you driving a car and it started regeneration but you totally unaware of it turned off the engine, the diesel used to clean DPF ends up in an oil sump . Mazdas even have dreaded X mark on a dipstick which shows that there too much diesel in oil. Apart from that you have to use crappy but very expensive low ash mineral oil ACEA C1, which cost as much as very good syntetic one.
If DPF fail it is not covered even on brand new cars because it is just a filter (worth >1000 euro)
German cars have separate tank with very expensive additive which you have to refill every 20 k km to clean DPF
The gov put a low tax system for these crappy diesels but you may end up paying more in a long term.
My advice if you see any diesel car with DPF for sale RUN AWaAY!!!

So your saying all new diesel engines are rubbish, not worth the extra money and the particulate filter is cost over €1000. Is this correct??????????

rebel.ranter

To add to the diesel story you must also consider the fragility of the turbos, especially if the car has been deprived of frequent oil changes.
Long service intervals demanded by the marketing people mean that even a car serviced with recommended intervals is probably not good for the turbo.
Yes these turbos are normally low pressure but I have heard too many instances of Ford, BMW & VWs with failed turbos to make me wonder how good an idea it would be to buy a turbo diesel car 2nd hand.
It may be a stretch to call a turbo a service item but it us definitely something that should be researched before you part with your hard earned cash.

evoline

dmclean1842 wrote: »

So your saying all new diesel engines are rubbish, not worth the extra money and the particulate filter cost over €1000. Is this correct??????????

Absolutely! They only suited for very long journeys on motorway which we don't have much in Ireland. 95 % of people driving new diesel passats and insignias have no clue what what pile of rubbish these cars are.
Dealers never tell people truth abot DPF only if you really press them looks like its their big secret.
http://www.irishdriver.ie/the-cost-of-an-ill-informed-vehicle-choice.article
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html
DPF is not under warranty and if smth happens to your car they will tell you that you didn't drive the car properly and you will pay to fix it.
Do your homework before you buy one

alancuran

Petrol for sure, you don't have to service it so often and it's cheaper if something will break.

user1842

evoline wrote: »

Absolutely! They only suited for very long journeys on motorway which we don't have much in Ireland. 95 % of people driving new diesel passats and insignias have no clue what what pile of rubbish these cars are.
Dealers never tell people truth abot DPF only if you really press them looks like its their big secret.
http://www.irishdriver.ie/the-cost-of-an-ill-informed-vehicle-choice.article
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html
DPF is not under warranty and if smth happens to your car they will tell you that you didn't drive the car properly and you will pay to fix it.
Do your homework before you buy one

Thanks I was thinking about buying a 08 1.9 diesel Golf but will rethink now based on this thread. The car will do about under 10,000km a year and a lot of it would be short journeys.

So you you would suggest petrol all the way then?

EPM

evoline wrote: »

DPF is not under warranty and if smth happens to your car they will tell you that you didn't drive the car properly and you will pay to fix it.
Do your homework before you buy one

My DPF was covered under warranty

evoline

EPM wrote: »

My DPF was covered under warranty

Which car you have? DPFs are only covered for 'free regeneration' first 30 k at best as far as I know. You will find it out when it fail I guess

keithclancy

My 2005 Volvo doesn't have a DPF *thank god*

All this means is that I cannot drive into the Green enviromental zone in German Cities

EPM

evoline wrote: »

Which car you have? DPFs are only covered for 'free regeneration' first 30 k at best as far as I know. You will find it out when it fail I guess

Regeneration wouldn't fix it and had to be replaced at 43k km on an 09 Ovtavia vRS. I had only bought it 5k km before that. The job came in at around €2k as a remap had to be removed also.

evoline

EPM wrote: »

Regeneration wouldn't fix it and had to be replaced at 43k km on an 09 Ovtavia vRS. I had only bought it 5k km before that. The job came in at around €2k as a remap had to be removed also.

I just was on to Mazda dealer ( because it was the car I was looking myself to buy) they confirmed that DPF is not under the warranty. They also confirmed oil dilution problems (also they said its rare provided that car used mainly for motorway driving)
It still a lot of rubbish to me that after paying 30 k you have to be worried about DPF related oil levels all the time and other issues not covered by warranty

flyingsnail

I have read thougth this thread and the two linked (link and link) articles and I have a few more questions.

1. Does the 2003-2004 modeo tdci have a DPF?

2. Seeing as most of my driving is done on the motorway for durations of 1 1/2 to 2 hours @ 120 would this be enfought to maintain a DPF?

kiddums

Ok all this talk of the DPF and the cost of things if it goes wrong has raised a question for men.

Will my 5 trips to work in the week of 25 odd miles be enough to clear this? Its at 60mph for 20 minutes approx and at 30/40mph for another 10-15 minutes.
This should heat things up enough shouldn't it?


I'm just trying to get an idea what cars I hould be looking at. I wont be buying anything for quite a while yet.

GTE

Merch wrote: »

Any idea which octavias didnt have a dpf? the newer mark? are all the 1.9's TDI (turbo charged?) or are there non turbo versions?
I kept hearing about PD engines as opposed to common rail, any newer engines not have a dpf?

The T stands for Turbo. The non turbos are SDI's. S being for Suction I think.
Slowest of the diesels but apparently they will last longer then the earth, with the old TDI's not far behind.

The PD TDI was replaced by the common raid TDI, or CR TDI. The VE TDI came before the PD.
The PD is when things went wrong.
Even if you do get a non DPF PD TDI there is big problems with these engines with regards to oil, and turbos as mentioned earlier. Apparently even some VW garages put the wrong oil in so it is essential you make sure any PD TDI has a spotless service history and you should ring up garages to see what oil they put in. Without getting too far into another area of diesels maybe if you narrow down some cars then we can get into the specifics.

The annoying thing is all the different types overlap as one replaced the other! (which is why I think the colour coding of the TDI badge got so messed up.)

The best way, if you are looking at cars in the near future would be to find the engine code and post it here. You will find that on stickers under the carpet in boots and also in the engine bay.


The sticker on my Mark 4 golf is on the top right where that bit of blue body work is beside those black boxes.

Also, I think it was mentioned here that it was an EU emissions reg that brought the need for DPF's? Maybe there is a year when everything went DPF.

I found this place and others a great help when picking out my car. I turned down the newer tech for an older VW TDI because of advice sought from various sources and considering the problems from the PD's onwards I think I did good for trouble free motoring.

evoline

flyingsnail wrote: »

I have read thougth this thread and the two linked (link and link) articles and I have a few more questions.

1. Does the 2003-2004 modeo tdci have a DPF?

2. Seeing as most of my driving is done on the motorway for durations of 1 1/2 to 2 hours @ 120 would this be enfought to maintain a DPF?

I dunno about mondeo but theoretically 1/2 to 2 hours @ 120 should be enough, just remember you don't need 120 km/h more important to keep engine above 2000 revs (another thing dealers don't like to tell, you have to push thing hard like a race car to keep DPF clean)
Also beware that there is no any light on a dashboard to tell you that regeneration is under way. The only way to know is suddenly increased fuel consumption and maybe white smoke from exhaust. Make sure you don't stop and don't turn off the engine this time otherwise you are killing your DPF. Good luck with it.