Rotbunt Cows v Holstein Friesian

cowman

Im currently in college, we milk 70 cows in Kilkenny doin 1200-1300 gallons at 3.5% protein. Most cows are british friesian with some holstein influences lately to push milk but i disagree with this. Father thinks gallons will pay, but I'm more of the opinion that keeping costs low and pushig protein and fertility through crossing is a better system. I want to buy a rotbunt cow, purebred or crossbred, bring it home and see what he thinks for a couple years...Any opinions on the idea of bringing a cow home to a reluctant father or on the breed in general? also a rough guide on price for the purebred or crossbred is appreciated!:)

jeff greene

When I was young and silly I wanted to do it with Montebellards as they were the rage then, got a few myself and was disappointed. But it wasn't a fair trial, but enough to see what we had were superior for our system.

What more do you want in a low cost system anyway with your current cows, I'm sure most of the country would be happy with that output. What is your empty rate and do you cull many for other reasons? Daddy is seldom wrong you know:rolleyes:

linebacker52

about five years ago i was having the same fight with my father.i whated to use new zealand bulls and he was having none of it anyway i used the new zealand and now it has worked out he is going around tell everyone how "we" changed the breeding.its hard to get them to change but you have to stick at it.

irishh_bob

cowman wrote: »

Im currently in college, we milk 70 cows in Kilkenny doin 1200-1300 gallons at 3.5% protein. Most cows are british friesian with some holstein influences lately to push milk but i disagree with this. Father thinks gallons will pay, but I'm more of the opinion that keeping costs low and pushig protein and fertility through crossing is a better system. I want to buy a rotbunt cow, purebred or crossbred, bring it home and see what he thinks for a couple years...Any opinions on the idea of bringing a cow home to a reluctant father or on the breed in general? also a rough guide on price for the purebred or crossbred is appreciated!:)

rotbunt are like a red and white british fresian IMO , thier is a small pool to fish from when it comes to bull selection , thier is so much variety withinthe black and white breed this minute , im sure it wont be a problem finding a fresian bull which has just as good of solids as the likes of the rotbunt , besides , it sounds like your herd is about average in terms of yield anyhow so i dont think its nesscerry to start using lower yielding breeds at this stage , personally , if it was me and i was wanting cross to an alternative breed for the purpose of increasing solids , id go with jersey

djmc

I have my first batch or rotbunt x fr heifers milking this year and am happy with them
I have 2 purebreed cows with 4 years and was so impressed I got a rotbunt bull
and crossed the herd to him 2 years ago.
They are like red british freisans and have brought some strength into the herd
I have a lot of breeds including jersey x but the jersey dont have the same milk yeilds as bigger breeds
I have some sweedish red x cows milking 35kgs a day at the moment
A lot of people think freisan are the only breed that can produce high milk yeilds
but that is not true even if they have the biggest gene pool to pick from.
I find my best cows are a cross breed cow
I just got a freisian son of oman from lisduff herd in cork but will cross his offsping to norwegian or sweedish red again in 3 years time

cowman

I know I havent the experience behind me but nothing ventured, nothing gained...as for the jersey cross i dont think our cows are high yielding enough for that cross to start with. I know of people using a dovea bull jodus (DUJ) and are very happy with the cows, hitting 3.8% protein, they go back in calf at first service and any bull calf born is very valuable. I just dont trust going down the holstein route for a spring calving grass based system as regards feed bills and conception rates...more gallons does not necessarily mean more profit IMO...

irishh_bob

cowman wrote: »

I know I havent the experience behind me but nothing ventured, nothing gained...as for the jersey cross i dont think our cows are high yielding enough for that cross to start with. I know of people using a dovea bull jodus (DUJ) and are very happy with the cows, hitting 3.8% protein, they go back in calf at first service and any bull calf born is very valuable. I just dont trust going down the holstein route for a spring calving grass based system as regards feed bills and conception rates...more gallons does not necessarily mean more profit IMO...

on second thoughts , you are correct , a 1300 gallon herd is too low on volume to consider crossing with jersey , putting jersey on a high yielding holstien cow should deliver rewards , that said , im not sure the rotbunt is a particulary high volume either though , at 3.5 % , your herd has good protein as it is so im not sure its nescessery to focus on solids at the point in time , might be better selecting some mid range holstiens with a + in volume of around 200 kg

cowman

Yeah that is an option to look at as well...this year we used alot of the dovea bull (PZI) on the holsteins and progressive bull (LLK) on the friesians. Should be interesting to see how they turn out, the links are below! One thing that does bother me though is that the fertility sub index for friesians is nearly always lower than holsteins, I know it must be based on some fact but is it a management issue that causes this distortion?? I mean abosolutely no offence to Friesian breeders as we milk them ourselves!!!
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=pzi

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=llk

jeff greene

djmc wrote: »

I have my first batch or rotbunt x fr heifers milking this year and am happy with them
I have 2 purebreed cows with 4 years and was so impressed I got a rotbunt bull
and crossed the herd to him 2 years ago.
They are like red british freisans and have brought some strength into the herd
I have a lot of breeds including jersey x but the jersey dont have the same milk yeilds as bigger breeds
I have some sweedish red x cows milking 35kgs a day at the moment
A lot of people think freisan are the only breed that can produce high milk yeilds
but that is not true even if they have the biggest gene pool to pick from.
I find my best cows are a cross breed cow
I just got a freisian son of oman from lisduff herd in cork but will cross his offsping to norwegian or sweedish red again in 3 years time

Milk and fertility aside, how do they compare in scc, lameness, udder quality, temperament?

Any breed to be classed dairy should be capable of 35kgs, I've a few cows doing over 50kg, they can all milk. Good luck with your new bull, Lisduff is a great herd.

stanflt

jeff greene wrote: »

Milk and fertility aside, how do they compare in scc, lameness, udder quality, temperament?

Any breed to be classed dairy should be capable of 35kgs, I've a few cows doing over 50kg, they can all milk. Good luck with your new bull, Lisduff is a great herd.

Fowlerstown Maggie 35
OKN
30/03/11
5y 7m
Spring
4
1
49.9 3.70 3.69 1.8 1.8
1
0

1329 3.82 3.91 3.69 51 52

10497 4.07 3.64 3.69 427 382

ive a few over 50 a day too- no point talking the talk if you cant walk the walk:D:D:D

whelan1

a guy beside me sold out his hol/fr pedigree herd and bought in a full herd of rotbunts he had them for afew years and gave up dairying.. still has a few around and sell bulls for breeding , he's only a young lad

jeff greene

442
CMZ
14/03/11
4y 2m
Spring
3
1
54.6 4.09 4.93 2.0 1.8
0
0
1067 4.32 3.27 4.93 46 34
10138 3.67 3.28 4.93 372 333
10.6 33

Her dam is an LEC, is high 40s too, 9th calver, damn holsteins:p
Recording in the morning again.

Back on topic, this is a good site
http://dairyxbred.com/

stanflt

jeff greene wrote: »

442
CMZ
14/03/11
4y 2m
Spring
3
1
54.6 4.09 4.93 2.0 1.4
0
0
1067 4.32 3.27 4.93 46 34
10138 3.67 3.28 4.93 372 333
10.6 33

Her dam is an LEC, is high 40s too, 9th calver, damn holsteins:p

Recording in the morning again.

nice very nice- thats serious protein in the test:D

jeff greene

stanflt wrote: »

nice very nice- thats serious protein in the test:D

3.27%, I'd take it with the milk, would prefer your thought. Have you ever temped crossbreeding, cows like these would be ideal.

stanflt

jeff greene wrote: »

3.27%, I'd take it with the milk, would prefer your thought. Have you ever temped crossbreeding, cows like these would be ideal.

54.6 4.09 4.93 2.0 1.4 is that not her protein

wouldnt dream of cross breeding-milk sub index for the herd is 62

363kg milk 12.3kg fat 12.8kg prot

co-op sample of 4.02fat and 3.37prot for year-milk recording much higher but they dont pay the bills-dont think cross breeding would do so much when we can get alot more out of the hol/fr by using the right bulls

jeff greene

stanflt wrote: »

54.6 4.09 4.93 2.0 1.4 is that not her protein

wouldnt dream of cross breeding-milk sub index for the herd is 62

363kg milk 12.3kg fat 12.8kg prot

co-op sample of 4.02fat and 3.37prot for year-milk recording much higher but they dont pay the bills-dont think cross breeding would do so much when we can get alot more out of the hol/fr by using the right bulls

No both fat, that how it copied.

Would love to get an answer to that too, looks good on paper though:rolleyes:

I can see the merits to it but we're happy here with the holsteins with our system. Each to their own.

djmc

jeff greene wrote: »

Milk and fertility aside, how do they compare in scc, lameness, udder quality, temperament?

Any breed to be classed dairy should be capable of 35kgs, I've a few cows doing over 50kg, they can all milk. Good luck with your new bull, Lisduff is a great herd.

Lameness,udder quality,temperament have improved scc is much the same but I havent had any case of mastitis on a cross breed yet
I also find less problems over winter and after calving.
My land is not suited to pure holisten cows as its too high and rushy and they dont last like cross breed cows.
Thanks I just brought him cause the breeding was good his ebi is 150
I was looking out for a good norwegian when I came across him

stanflt

djmc wrote: »

Lameness,udder quality,temperament have improved scc is much the same but I havent had any case of mastitis on a cross breed yet
I also find less problems over winter and after calving.
My land is not suited to pure holisten cows as its too high and rushy and they dont last like cross breed cows.
Thanks I just brought him cause the breeding was good his ebi is 150
I was looking out for a good norwegian when I came across him

best of luck with him-whats his breeding like and kgs milk, fat prot and %

irishh_bob

whelan1 wrote: »

a guy beside me sold out his hol/fr pedigree herd and bought in a full herd of rotbunts he had them for afew years and gave up dairying.. still has a few around and sell bulls for breeding , he's only a young lad

are his initials PG

whelan1

irishh_bob wrote: »

are his initials PG

yup- not the ai company