Secession-What would happen?

GLaDOS_old

Lately I've noticed two major themes in posts on boards, 1. country is bankrupt because of banks and 2. Queen is coming over here and this is good/bad because we're mature/angry and know that Northern Ireland is democratically choosing to be in the UK/unlawfully occupied by a foreign power. There's two sides to that one.

My question is this: What if the people in a county or two, for instance galway and mayo, decided to secede from the Irish Republic, thereby avoiding being stuck with the bank guarantee scheme and many billions in debts and loans. These two counties between them have plenty of land and would take their share of the continental shelf with them including access to corrib gas field and potentially any oil reserves out there. They would also have one of our bigger cities in galway with lots of high tech jobs. They might do reasonably well on their own.

And as a next step, what if they applied to become either a territory or state of the USA. or even just signed over foreign affairs to them like many pacific islands had. USA gets a place in europe to put nukes or missile defense systems or land planes enroute to whatever warzone they're heading to and its all above board. they also have a chance of getting access to oil.

Of course there would be foreign presence on irish soil. but the people in those counties could avoid decades of crippling austerity budgets.

What would the IRA do in a situation like this? Both in the first case of counties seceding from the 26 and in the more extreme version of them joining the US in some form

alan85

Do you write Sci Fi or something?! What world do you live in?! I don't know why I'm even wasting time replying...

dsmythy

alan85 wrote: »

Do you write Sci Fi or something?! What world do you live in?! I don't know why I'm even wasting time replying...

What would happen if a section of the Irish Republic wished to break away with overwhelming support. Does the constitution have anything to say about it. And if not why not?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Connacht independence it is! Somebody actually wrote a book about that happening, and the EU were the villians who tried to reconquer the province.

riffmongous

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Connacht independence it is! Somebody actually wrote a book about that happening, and the EU were the villians who tried to reconquer the province.

Wow, I thought Munster would have been the natural choice for going the independence route. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to secede as such, maybe claiming they were actually the real Irish republic from the civil war times somehow.

Oh and from a military viewpoint it wouldn't be very hard to subdue Connaught I think, the Shannon isn't the defence line it used to be

Bucklesman

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Connacht independence it is! Somebody actually wrote a book about that happening, and the EU were the villians who tried to reconquer the province.

Sudden urge to read above book, any idea what the title was?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Bucklesman wrote: »

Sudden urge to read above book, any idea what the title was?

I can't remember. I happened to come across it in a bookshop in Castlebar, I must keep an eye out for it again.

oppenheimer1

Secession is an interesting idea however no subdivision of this country would be a viable economic entity on its own as it simply wouldn't have the resources to be a small country - Northern Ireland is a prime example of this.

In theory the whole country could secede as a second Irish republic but usually some sort of transitional continuity from the old to the new would be expected. In other words our debt would follow us.

Secession, however will be on the agenda in the next few years as our near neighbour considers it. For Scotland it will be complex, will the scots for example demand a share of the UK nuclear arsenal? What proportion of the UK debt will the be forced to take on? The nitty gritty of each succession is different and was one of the reasons for the bankruptcy of Russia not so long ago. I believe (and I'm open to correction on this) that Russia retained the USSRs historical sovereign debt in its entirety, yet lost a huge chunk of its population through the break up of the union - thus leading to the situation where it didn't have enough people to pay off its debts.

caseyann

I would be rightful ruler of Connacht then

Chris O Donoghue

I can't see why it's so far-fetched, there was the Munster Republic, the Limerick Soviet, Kosovo, Slovakia/Czech Republic split.

There are a lot of problems though: presumably the governemt would saddle the new state with it's portion of the national debt, similar to the land annuities that the state took on after independence.

You would also have the problem of "loyalists" who want to stay with the Republic; how would they be dealt with? To hell or to Connacht:)

Would the new state have to apply for EU membership?

Plenty to chew on with this one!

raymon

How about we hand our debt off to Offaly . Then force them to detach from the republic.

Biffo senior as president and Biffo stupider as Taoiseach

After all the Biffo caused this

The FF republic of Biffosland you could call it

Coriolanus

dsmythy wrote: »

What would happen if a section of the Irish Republic wished to break away with overwhelming support. Does the constitution have anything to say about it. And if not why not?

It doesn't that I remember. The framers of the Con. were rather more concerned with regaining the six counties than with giving a few others the opportunity to peel off and go it alone.

z0oT

It's an interesting question, assuming a secession actually occured, leaving out the technicalities behind it occuring of course. There's a whole load of issues arrising such as what does the respective state do for foreign policy, defense, currency etc. Realistically it's probably not a runner given Ireland's size as a country. If we were an island of 10/20/30 times the size with 10/20/30 times the current population with predominant different cultures in the respective seperate parts, then seperatist movements would be more common, but it's unlikely for a small country such as ourselves.

As regards the IRA, it's hard to know what they'd do. Their beef was always against the British occupation of the island, what their stance on an American occupation would be is another matter.

On a lighter note, this reminds me of the plan behind The People's Republic of Cork, ie. a completely seperate Cork state.

feicim

dsmythy wrote: »

What would happen if a section of the Irish Republic wished to break away with overwhelming support. Does the constitution have anything to say about it. And if not why not?

If a section of the Irish republic tried to break away from the rest of Ireland, what would most likely happen is that everybody would point at them and laugh.

mgmt

People in da whesst forget that Dublin taxes subsidises the rest of the country. If Connaught succedes you can forget about the M17/18, railways etc.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

mgmt wrote: »

People in da whesst forget that Dublin taxes subsidises the rest of the country. If Connaught succedes you can forget about the M17/18, railways etc.

Whats the M17?

mgmt

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Whats the M17?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N17_road_(Ireland)#M17_motorway_and_other_planned_upgrades

Fr Tod Umptious

GLaDOS wrote: »

Lately I've noticed two major themes in posts on boards, 1. country is bankrupt because of banks and 2. Queen is coming over here and this is good/bad because we're mature/angry and know that Northern Ireland is democratically choosing to be in the UK/unlawfully occupied by a foreign power. There's two sides to that one.

My question is this: What if the people in a county or two, for instance galway and mayo, decided to secede from the Irish Republic, thereby avoiding being stuck with the bank guarantee scheme and many billions in debts and loans. These two counties between them have plenty of land and would take their share of the continental shelf with them including access to corrib gas field and potentially any oil reserves out there. They would also have one of our bigger cities in galway with lots of high tech jobs. They might do reasonably well on their own.

And as a next step, what if they applied to become either a territory or state of the USA. or even just signed over foreign affairs to them like many pacific islands had. USA gets a place in europe to put nukes or missile defense systems or land planes enroute to whatever warzone they're heading to and its all above board. they also have a chance of getting access to oil.

Of course there would be foreign presence on irish soil. but the people in those counties could avoid decades of crippling austerity budgets.

What would the IRA do in a situation like this? Both in the first case of counties seceding from the 26 and in the more extreme version of them joining the US in some form

Something like this would never happen, and never should it happen.

As many have said it's too small a population base for a sustainable country.

Also the line I highlighted, there was a good piece on Newsnight on BBC2 last week about the Scottish independence debate.

Some person on the piece (I cannot remember what or who she was) said that no country should look for independence to become 'better off' financially, it just does not work that way.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

mgmt wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N17_road_(Ireland)#M17_motorway_and_other_planned_upgrades

Wasn't even aware that was planned, and I grew up along the N17. Several of the towns along it are definitety in need of bypasses alright.

Marsden

I believe Tallaght are planning to do this.

Viva le revelution

dkin

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Something like this would never happen, and never should it happen.

As many have said it's too small a population base for a sustainable country.

Also the line I highlighted, there was a good piece on Newsnight on BBC2 last week about the Scottish independence debate.

Some person on the piece (I cannot remember what or who she was) said that no country should look for independence to become 'better off' financially, it just does not work that way.

Well if they were part of the EU it might be feasible. Ireland as a whole is too small economically to survive independently hence our reliance on the EU. Lichtenstein seem to do ok.

Liam Byrne

GLaDOS wrote: »

Lately I've noticed two major themes in posts on boards, 1. country is bankrupt because of banks and 2. Queen is coming over here and this is good/bad because we're mature/angry and know that Northern Ireland is democratically choosing to be in the UK/unlawfully occupied by a foreign power. There's two sides to that one.

There aren't "two sides to that one", because the "law" and constitution are clear, as voted for by the Irish people.

Claiming otherwise in order to base an argument on it is like saying that "divorce is illegal".

bmaxi

If Galway/Mayo secede from the Republic, what language would be spoken? If English, would there be a problem with dissident Gaelgóirs?

deise go deo

bmaxi wrote: »

If Galway/Mayo secede from the Republic, what language would be spoken? If English, would there be a problem with dissident Gaelgóirs?

Both, like now?

MadsL

Not exactly Sci-fi...one in three Texans would like independance from the USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Secession_Movement

mgmt

MadsL wrote: »

Not exactly Sci-fi...one in three Texans would like independance from the USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Secession_Movement

Look at this about 1:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sESq6OC8688

rabble rabble crowd waving union flags and shouting about independence LOL

Overheal

GLaDOS

If you turn out to be a one post wonder when you picked out a username like that, I will be very disappointed.

And as a next step, what if they applied to become either a territory or state of the USA. or even just signed over foreign affairs to them like many pacific islands had. USA gets a place in europe to put nukes or missile defense systems or land planes enroute to whatever warzone they're heading to and its all above board. they also have a chance of getting access to oil.

What oil? And why is it always about oil? Nevermind.

We already have a place to do air logistics in Western Europe: Shannon. Works out pretty well. Why would the US need to adopt and support an Irish Territory? How would that make political or economic sense? Ireland can always make a deal to support a US Military base, like other countries have, but I've heard no discussion of that at all. I'm not even sure there would be any strategic value in it, no offense.

Texas on the other hand actually happens to be a sustainable economy and they could secede if they really desired, but theres a lot of benefit to the confederation, like Joint Defense and the Interstate Commerce System. Among other things. Anyway the South tried to secede once upon a time and that did not go terribly well for the parties involved. Texans have often talked about it in the last few years but it would be a monumental effort to actually pull that trigger and require landslide support.

InigoMontoya

In that eventuality, the Mayo footballers might even manage to win a "national" championship.

View

Overheal wrote: »

Texas on the other hand actually happens to be a sustainable economy and they could secede if they really desired, but theres a lot of benefit to the confederation, like Joint Defense and the Interstate Commerce System.

I think you mean Federation, not Confederation - there was a small dispute about that particular point of US Constitutional law in the 19th Century I believe.

View

mgmt wrote: »

Look at this about 1:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sESq6OC8688

rabble rabble crowd waving union flags and shouting about independence LOL

Well spotted - I can't really imagine either SF or the DUP making that mistake here.

mike65

MadsL wrote: »

Not exactly Sci-fi...one in three Texans would like independance from the USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Secession_Movement

Texas would be a vaguely plausible candidate for independence with their local resorces, they used to be independent albeit not for very long

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

Whereas the Peoples Republic of Cork as much as they might fancy the idea is not a runner.

bmaxi

deise go deo wrote: »

Both, like now?

But it wouldn't be like now. If Galway/Mayo were to become a Republic or, who knows, even a Monarchy, in their own right then Gaelgóirs would actually come on to the scale in terms of population.
Everybody knows that dissidents don't have to come remotely near being on the scale in population terms to expect everybody else to dance to their tune.
Watch out for riots in Rosmuck.

Overheal

View wrote: »

I think you mean Federation, not Confederation - there was a small dispute about that particular point of US Constitutional law in the 19th Century I believe.

I was debating that internally last night and i kept thinking of star trek.