PTSB want to return us to variable rate

iPearly

As me and my husband were struggling with our mortgage payment ( he lost his job 2 years ago) we went to talk to TSB. They told us that as our 5.35 fixed mortgage expires we will go on a 5.95% VARIABLE MORTGAGE RATE. While considering to go for an interest only payments with PERMANENT TSB I got my contract details off my solicitor. To my surprise there was a paragraph under special conditions that read- and I quote:

　

On expiry of the fixed rate period and without affecting the entitelment of the applicant to apply at any time to fix the rate for a further period ( if available) the interest rate applicable to the loan will be the CURRENT PERMANENT TSB TRACKER MORTGAGE RATE (comprising of a certain percentage over the European Central Bank refinancing rate ( the ECB rate)) appropriate to the loan as may be varied from time to time in accordance with the variations of the ECB rate.

It actually made me sick that have I not found it myself - the bank would have never pointed it out and kept their end of the deal. We went back to the bank and we showed them the SPECIAL CONDITIONS. I saw that same person that told us that we are going onto 5.95% variable rate and there was no APOLOGY or even recolection of mistake being made.

Getting to part two of the problem: they are saying that their tracker rate is not ECB + 3.25%. Surely we are not new customers? We are CURRENT customers that are entitled to the existing customers tracker mortgage rate which is way lower than that( mortgage was taken out in june 2008)

I am going to fight it even if it means I spend every penny I don't have. The banks are used to abusing us for way to long.

I will be very grateful for any comments and input anyone has.

phormium

Knew when I was halfway through your post what the problem would be. Your loan offer does not specify the margin over ECB your tracker should be (e.g. ECB + 1%), it only requires them to return you to their current tracker rate which I would imagine they can set at what they like as it has no bearing on what the rate was when you took out the loan.

Does it say anywhere on the loan offer that it will return to a fixed margin over the ECB, is there a rate mentioned at all?

Pablo Sanchez

As they no longer offer trackers there is no 'CURRENT PERMANENT TSB TRACKER MORTGAGE RATE' so as the previous poster advised i would imagine that it will simply revert to their standard variable rate im afraid.

But let us know how you get on, id be interetsed to see if they will make any sort of concession under the circumstances.

BuffyBot

Thread title edited. iPearly, frustration is understandable, but there are certain standards which you should uphold here - and also, a more descriptive title will attract more visitors, and therefore open your query up to receiving more replies.

iPearly

phormium wrote: »

Knew when I was halfway through your post what the problem would be. Your loan offer does not specify the margin over ECB your tracker should be (e.g. ECB + 1%), it only requires them to return you to their current tracker rate which I would imagine they can set at what they like as it has no bearing on what the rate was when you took out the loan.

Does it say anywhere on the loan offer that it will return to a fixed margin over the ECB, is there a rate mentioned at all?

No there isn't. But that was draft 2 of the original letter( that's the legally binding one) we received when applying for the mortgage. In the original letter we got for from them there was a condition that said they will return us to a variable rate mortgage rate but no more than 1.1 over ecb.
The way I see it is : they lured us with certain conditions and then they were changing them as it suited them. At that time the interest rate was changing from day to day and all we wanted to do is finally close. I wasn't even aware of any other changes.
Have I not mentioned it they would have us on a variable at 5.95% in a few days time.

iPearly

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

As they no longer offer trackers there is no 'CURRENT PERMANENT TSB TRACKER MORTGAGE RATE' so as the previous poster advised i would imagine that it will simply revert to their standard variable rate im afraid.

But let us know how you get on, id be interetsed to see if they will make any sort of concession under the circumstances.

They can't give me a variable. They have to give me a tracker- it's the percentage over ECB that is the dillema now.

Eimhin

I had the same thing written in my letter about how I could go to tracker after my fixed term. I came off fixed term about 3 years ago and they wouldn't honour what they said and made me go on variable. I'm now at 5.95%!!!! Fight it as much as you can! I really should have pushed the issue harder.

YASA

Eimhin wrote: »

I had the same thing written in my letter about how I could go to tracker after my fixed term. I came off fixed term about 3 years ago and they wouldn't honour what they said and made me go on variable. I'm now at 5.95%!!!! Fight it as much as you can! I really should have pushed the issue harder.

Exact same my situation.

iPearly

Eimhin wrote: »

I had the same thing written in my letter about how I could go to tracker after my fixed term. I came off fixed term about 3 years ago and they wouldn't honour what they said and made me go on variable. I'm now at 5.95%!!!! Fight it as much as you can! I really should have pushed the issue harder.

you can still do it. lots of people are. especially if its in your contract. Just file an internal complaint and then if that does nothing go to the ombudsman. Youll get a refund from them and a change in interest rate

Pablo Sanchez

iPearly wrote: »

you can still do it. lots of people are. especially if its in your contract. Just file an internal complaint and then if that does nothing go to the ombudsman. Youll get a refund from them and a change in interest rate

Did the ombudsman uphold your complaint?

iPearly

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Did the ombudsman uphold your complaint?

i'll let you know in a little while. Still in the process

Pablo Sanchez

iPearly wrote: »

i'll let you know in a little while. Still in the process

Great, i hope it works out well for you but i think its dangerous to say ''Youll get a refund from them and a change in interest rate'' before you get the findings.

YASA

iPearly wrote: »

i'll let you know in a little while. Still in the process

So, how is your case run now? Any results?

Eimhin

Hi Yasa,

I didn't chase it. I can't find the letter. It's buried with the house papers somewhere. I will root it out sometime, at the moment I'm chasing Bord Gais to try and get them to bill me! They haven't sent me a bill since January even though I've been ringing and asking for one. I must owe them a fortune! Feckers

iPearly

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Did the ombudsman uphold your complaint?

Well they didn't throw it out. They have invited me and tsb to mediation( they refused of course) and the case will be investigated now. Due to amount of the coplaints it will take time but we're heading forward. Nothing to lose huh?

iPearly

Eimhin wrote: »

Hi Yasa,

I didn't chase it. I can't find the letter. It's buried with the house papers somewhere. I will root it out sometime, at the moment I'm chasing Bord Gais to try and get them to bill me! They haven't sent me a bill since January even though I've been ringing and asking for one. I must owe them a fortune! Feckers

I suggest you find that letter. Your solicitor should have a copy of it. If it wasn't for that letter I would be on same rate as you and i'm on 4.5%( their made up tracker rate)
Worth pursuing!!

boatbuilder

Just a heads-up....Permanent TSB varaible rate is 5.8% at the moment and is going up to 6.05% next month. Oh my God.

voriax

Ptsb currently charges me 6.15%...
Basically they charge whatever they want, there were 6 increases in last 2 years.
Complaint first to the bank, then to the Ombudsman. Now I have to wait 50 weeks before the Ombudsman's office start investigating my complaint.
Any one i similar situation, any suggestions?

boatbuilder

I'm in the same situation. I was on 4.99% fixed, came off the fixed and am now on over 6%....the increase is costing us about 3 grand a year in extra interest.
Our solution is hopefully for my wife to get a job really soon to bring in enough extra money that we can switch to another mortgage company.
This means you need a good LTV (loan to value) ratio and a suitable level of income.

voriax

Hi Boatbuilder,
As angry as I am at ptsb, I should avoid panic decisions and switch (if I could) to another company. Nobody knows how the banking system will look in the future. Ptsb is controlled by the government and I think it eventually would put me in better position then in KBC for example.

boatbuilder

voriax wrote: »

Hi Boatbuilder,
As angry as I am at ptsb, I should avoid panic decisions and switch (if I could) to another company. Nobody knows how the banking system will look in the future. Ptsb is controlled by the government and I think it eventually would put me in better position then in KBC for example.

The reason that TSB have the highest interest rates in the country is that they didn't take any bailout money and are one of the very few banks that are rowing their own boat without taxpayers money! Unfortunately for anyone locked in with the TSB, the government have not much say about how high they can put their variable rates. So to me, it makes sense to switch to a "softer" bank like Bank of Ireland, who did get a massive bailout and have lower rates because the government DO have control over them and will be too scared to let them increase rates too much for political reasons.

touts

As the Keane report proved yesterday if you are hoping the government will take the side of the homeowner over the bank you are going to be very mistaken.

I'm one of the lucky ones on a great tracker with PTSB and apparently well over half their loan book is similar. They are making unsustainable losses on this portion of their business and as a result they are crucifying the variable rate holders. It is the same in many of the banks just PTSB have one of the biggest tracker portifolios.

One solution would be for the government to take over the tracker loans in a sort of NAMA type organisation. They wouldn't be chasing the home owners like they are chasing the developers since the loans would be performing BUT if the Euro-bonds thing works and government bond rates come down to ~2-3% then you are much closer to the % being paid by the trackers than what the banks are currently paying for money. That would leave the banks free to manage their variable and fixed rate loans. They could find a % rate for those loans what just related to those loans and did not also have to cover 2-3% for the tracker next door. OK it relies on a Euro-bond solution to make it financially viable but it's the only solution I can see to the Tracker crisis

voriax

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023024.shtml

ptsb is under state control, I think they took 2 billions recently...
The bank is broke, however nobody admits it.
"Burning" minority customers on variable rates will only give them some time.

boatbuilder

Haven't seen it anywhere that they actually had to take any bailout money, they are raising money independently are they not?

Anyhow, the link below may be some welcome relief for all of us poor standard variable rate scape goats!

Financial Regulator Matthew Elderfield has told banks to stop increasing standard variable rates on mortgages. In many cases the banks are putting up standard variable rates to compensate for losses the lenders are suffering as a result of offering much cheaper tracker loans.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1014/banks.html

voriax

Nobody says that your or mine variable rate will be reduced to a reasonable level. He just ask banks (ptsb) to stop increasing. Now ECB rates are close to historical low, imagine how much it will cost you when they increase (permanent tsb will simply "in response to this increase their variable rates accordingly").
From the legal point of view the situation looks hopelessly because by signing the mortgage documents we "entered into a legal contract with the bank" and now they can charge us whatever they want.
Political solution is even more unlikely, the government will not interfere "between individual customers and the banks" and the banks will deal on "one to one basis". You and me as individuals have no chance against ptsb and its teams of lawyers. People might rent their houses from the banks until property market recovers but then the houses will be sold and people evicted.