English Paper 2.

B_Fanatic

Right. I'm just making this thread to get paper 2 off my chest, because in my opinion, English is the hardest Leaving certificate subject. More specifically, English paper 2, and my main issue is with the timing and the amount we're supposesd to write. My english teacher constantly tells us we're to write:

6/7 pages for the comparative.
5/6 pages for the single text.
5/6 pages for the poetry response.

As it stands i've NEVER, not even in the mocks, done the unseen poetry question simply because i don't have the time, but I rarely finish everything else properly too. I mean, I'm a slow writer, I can't just spew crap onto the page. It has to be the perfect word in the perfect place. There's no way I could write 15 pages in 150 minutes. So I guess what I'm asking is, how much does everyone intend on writing? I feel that 6 pages for the comparative is fine, and so is 5 for the poetry (Mainly because I've prepared 5 pages of good material) but how does 3/4 pages for the Hamlet sound? My paragraphs in my Hamlet essays are generally a third to two thirds of the page so I can get down a lot more information.

So, allowing 20 minutes for the unseen poem, what times and what quantities do you suggest giving for each section?

(I'm always paranoid that my topic is breaking the rules, so if I'm doing anything wrong just let me know.)

Edit: Wow, just rechecked the timetables quickly. Turns out I was getting the timing wrong : D I feel a bit silly, but I'm relieved too! 3 hours is much more comforting. Still, for the purposes of the thread I'd like some opinons on lengths. Although I'm aware that there are plenty of other threads with lengths discussed I was wondering what the general trend for higher grades in English tend to be. Longer and quite good or shorter and slightly better?

implausible

6/7 pages for the comparative.
5/6 pages for the single text.
5/6 pages for the poetry response.

To batter a cliché to death - it's about quality, not quantity. As long as you engage fully with the question asked, you will get the marks.

It has to be the perfect word in the perfect place.

That's absolutely fine when you have 3 hours to do an essay for your teacher. However, in the exam, you should have a very good idea what you are going to write and not have to spend 10 minutes thinking of the right word. It's all about preparation and adapting that preparation to the question asked on the day.

So, allowing 20 minutes for the unseen poem, what times and what quantities do you suggest giving for each section?

Roughly an hour per essay. I hate prescribing how much a student should write but I think that 6 pages is excessive for a poetry question - 4/5 should do it. Remember that despite how time-consuming it is, poetry is only worth 50 marks, less than Hamlet and your comparative. It's the unseen that makes it count and leaving that out could cost you a grade.

SDTimeout

You don't need 5/6 pages on a poetry response. You really do not.

My Wordsworth, Boland and Dickinson are all 3 /3+1/2 pages and got very high grades.

You're thinking that writing so much will get you great results, where the reality is you are writing a lot where you can get the same result with a little less and a bit more overall quality of writing.

C__

4 pages is loads for a poetry question. I wrote 4 pages in my mock and i got 45/50.
5/6 pages for comparative is good but you can always add more cause there is loads to write about and alot of marks going for it.
4 pages for Hamlet is plenty as long as you have relevant points and dont waffle on.

chicgroovy101

Wow! My answers are not near as long!
4-5 pages for comparitive
3-4 pages for poetry
4 pages for hamlet
1 page for unstudied poetry

As Hamlet holds more marks than the studied Poetry why would you plan to write more? Its wasting time that could be spent getting marks elsewhere!

B_Fanatic

Thanks C, that's all a really great help. I do have a good bit prepared as it is so I should be okay there. I just have to shorten it down : /.

SDTimeout wrote: »

You don't need 5/6 pages on a poetry response. You really do not.

My Wordsworth, Boland and Dickinson are all 3 /3+1/2 pages and got very high grades.

You're thinking that writing so much will get you great results, where the reality is you are writing a lot where you can get the same result with a little less and a bit more overall quality of writing.

Well with my teacher the quantity means everything. I'm not saying she's right but if you hand her up an answer for poetry for example, it has to be at least 4 and a half pages or he'll immediately call it a C before she even corrects it. I gave her a 3 page single text the other day (which was honestly a paragraph or two short anyway) and she said the writing was fantastic but C-ed because of the quantity. At this stage I'm pretty confident in my writing so I think I'll shorten everything and just not hand it up.

Thanks! My English fears are definitely allayed for the minute, and I feel much better so cheers for your input.

ride-the-spiral

Would it not be a better idea to break it down in terms of time rather than pages? Excluding time spent reading the paper, Paper II is a mark a minute, so that's 20 for unseen poetry, 50 for the long poetry question, 60 for Hamlet and 70 for comparative.

I've always found discussing answer length in terms of pages a bit pointless because everybody's handwriting is different. For example my Hamlet was 2 pages and my comparative 2 and a half in the mocks because my handwriting is so small.

B_Fanatic

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

Would it not be a better idea to break it down in terms of time rather than pages?

I prepare my essays before the exam so it's a bit more helpful at this stage to think in pages, although I think I was asking about the timing too so thanks for the heads up. I always think it's a bit ridiculous that the poetry is worth so little. Not even because there are so many poets, but because there's so much to say on each of them!

SDTimeout

B_Fanatic wrote: »

Thanks C, that's all a really great help. I do have a good bit prepared as it is so I should be okay there. I just have to shorten it down : /.



Well with my teacher the quantity means everything. I'm not saying she's right but if you hand her up an answer for poetry for example, it has to be at least 4 and a half pages or he'll immediately call it a C before she even corrects it. I gave her a 3 page single text the other day (which was honestly a paragraph or two short anyway) and she said the writing was fantastic but C-ed because of the quantity. At this stage I'm pretty confident in my writing so I think I'll shorten everything and just not hand it up.

Thanks! My English fears are definitely allayed for the minute, and I feel much better so cheers for your input.

Then it is your teacher who is letting you down . I handed up a comparative the other day that was nearly 4 pages. It was a Theme question and it stemmed from KEY moments in the comparatives. This is a harder one as you need to write less as not all of my theme of betrayal came from key moments.

Different answers like that i feel can demand a little less. Still managed to get 4 points in and comparing it to all 3 texts.

orlabobs

Like the history paper, english is all about timing.
when you get the exam take the first half a min to scan the paper and pick your questions (if your unsure on one area leave it until you come to it)
then read the unseen poem
Then do your first question. Use only your allotted time. If you run out of time, leave space to finish it off if you have time at the end.
then read the unseen poem again. I know it sounds silly, but the poems are never very long, but often, as poems are, confusing. the more times you read it the better.
cont on until in the same fashion until all you have left to do is the unseen. Make sure you leave yourself time to do it, because seriously, even if its just 5 mins and you write a little paragraph on each part, you WILL get marks. prob crap marks, but you'll prob walk away with 3/10 (or whatever it is, i cant remember). Basically, its easier to get those few marks than to keep writing on hamlet and try and get more marks there.

If you are running out of time, try to make your points and get to the end. If you must, leave out a paragraph and if you have time at the end just slot it in at the end and make a note where it should go. The examiners won't mind. They're examining you on your material, not the neatness of your exam booklet.
But make sure you do every question. Try and have key area's and points that may come up on the paper learnt off so if they do, you can just delve into the question. That way, you really dont have to spend long wondering what you should be writing.

So in conclusion, make sure you get the timing right, your losing out on marks otherwise.

what.to.do

When it comes to paper two, I've always been advised;

Allow yourself a mark a minute.

i.e, 60 marks for Hamlet, spend 60 minutes.