Is hard work not hard for some?

CorkMan

Look at the people who achieve a lot in life, entrepreneurs, executives, consultants. Individuals like Richard Branson, Jay-Z (who is worth over $450 million), 50 Cent (worth over $400 million), or Stauss Zelnick, CEO of Take-Two. He made over €140 million in 2009.

These people obviously have to work very hard, but why do they do it while others don't? It is almost like hard work "isn't hard" for them. They must be able to visualize their rewards or something very hard before they start working, to get them there.

Turtwig

One simple reason : procrastination.

Blowfish

It depends. Some people live to work, while the vast majority just work to live. Not everyone's goal in life is to be as rich as possible.

dvpower

Blowfish wrote: »

It depends. Some people live to work, while the vast majority just work to live. Not everyone's goal in life is to be as rich as possible.

A lot of people work very hard without ever becoming wealthy. The mega rich like the ones cited in the OP didn't become so just out of hard work - there is often a lot of luck; those levels of reward are exceptional.

CorkMan wrote: »

These people obviously have to work very hard, but why do they do it while others don't? It is almost like hard work "isn't hard" for them. They must be able to visualize their rewards or something very hard before they start working, to get them there.

When you make millions a year maybe working hard doesn't seem such hard work.
If they're visualising rewards of hundreds of millions before they start working, they must be a bit narcissistic.

TokenWhite

In a nutshell, I think the main factors influencing any successful entreprenuers or artisits would be hard work, motivation, talent/intelligence and luck. Of course there are probably exceptions to one or more of those but I'd say they are thin on the ground. Luck is a huge factor, if you look at some of the millionaires the music intustery has made, how many of them would have been successful (regardless of their hard work, talent or motivation) had they not been releasing songs in popular genres. Football is another example, look at the salaries of modern day footballers and those of only 30 years ago, when it was not uncommon to have to work day jobs to make ends meet. Same goes for entrepreneurs, although I would argue that luck is a less relevant factor here.

Why do some people work hard to succeed and others don't? I would say most people would love to be rich given the choice but have neither the drive nor ambition to put their efforts into working at it, and prefer to focus more on other things - interests/hobbies/family etc. and who can blame them? after a certain standard of life, money is not the be all and end all for most of us, it's just an added bonus.

silverharp

there is a bit of a "winners" fallacy going on here, Think of someone like Bill Gates, if he had a 1000 reruns of his life, he might not end up running a microsoft like company in any of the other scenarios. Musicians and actors fall into this category too.
On the other hand take a medical doctor, it comes down to working hard

Blowfish

silverharp wrote: »

there is a bit of a "winners" fallacy going on here, Think of someone like Bill Gates, if he had a 1000 reruns of his life, he might not end up running a microsoft like company in any of the other scenarios. Musicians and actors fall into this category too.

Actually that's very true, especially when you look at the story of Gary Kildall and how, but for the events of a single day would have been in Bill Gates position instead of him.

Denerick

I know a public servant who regularly works 60 hour weeks, gets paid just over 100k per annum before tax, and is constantly scapegoated as one of the ruinous fat cats ruining our country. I don't wish to make this a public sector slanging match but I'm pointing out that people work incredibly hard, terribly long hours which effectively destroy their social and personal lives, for comparatively small reward. Working hard isn't the key to massive rewards. For example, Paris Hilton is a multi millionaire in her own right. All she had to do was make a sex tape and then forge a career as somebody who is vain and likes to shop and have casual sex.

dvpower

Denerick wrote: »

For example, Paris Hilton is a multi millionaire in her own right. All she had to do was make a sex tape and then forge a career as somebody who is vain and likes to shop and have casual sex.

I applied for that job, but its all who you know.:mad:

dvpower

silverharp wrote: »

there is a bit of a "winners" fallacy going on here, Think of someone like Bill Gates, if he had a 1000 reruns of his life, he might not end up running a microsoft like company in any of the other scenarios. Musicians and actors fall into this category too.
On the other hand take a medical doctor, it comes down to working hard

Bill Gates, even without being in the right place at the right time and making a couple of good decisions with MS-DOS, would likely have done very well for himself - at least as well as a very hard working medical doctor.

(But I agree, we should disregard the mega rich - mostly luck)

kerash

Denerick wrote: »

I know a public servant who regularly works 60 hour weeks, gets paid just over 100k per annum before tax, and is constantly scapegoated as one of the ruinous fat cats ruining our country. I don't wish to make this a public sector slanging match but I'm pointing out that people work incredibly hard, terribly long hours which effectively destroy their social and personal lives, for comparatively small reward. Working hard isn't the key to massive rewards. For example, Paris Hilton is a multi millionaire in her own right. All she had to do was make a sex tape and then forge a career as somebody who is vain and likes to shop and have casual sex.

Also heir to the Hilton fortune - I dont think she would have had the opportunity without rich daddy.

hinault

10,000 hours.

That was the estimated amount of hours required to be expended to become an expert in a chosen field.

It probably goes some to justifying Gary Players axiom "the harder I practice, the luckier I become"

In most cases hard work is required to achieve success at a given level.
Include inate talent, some luck and energy to do the work.

hinault

hinault wrote: »

In most cases hard work is required to achieve success at a given level. Include inate talent, some luck and energy to do the work.

Might want to throw in ambition tied with the willingness to make sacrifices as well. Most people don't have the ambition to make it to the top and stay there. All the people I have met through business that are wealthy have done it by being willing to take risks (personal and work related), and refusing to live by the "rules" most of us live by.

Throw in that the vast majority of them are prematurely gray, have failed marriages, some form of medical condition, etc I'm quite happy not being rich. Although I might regret it when I need a pension.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mikemac

Ah the curse of procrastination

If I wasn't such a fiend for it, I'd have a fit body, completed my professional exams years ago and started towards a few other goals

Bill Gates is known for the hours he put in when he was just starting
He would have succeeded at anything he wanted. Ok, he wouldn't be a billionaire as a surgeon maybe but if he went to medical school I've no doubt he'd make it

Some luck and circumstances made him what he is now but he'd be a success at whatever he tried to do.

I'm an awful procrastinator sometimes too though I am working on it.

As for the money part of things, I don't know - I picked what I do for the challenge as much as anything else. If I won the lotto (and I wouldn't mind ) I'd still continue this work because I enjoy it. Doing nothing all the time - I would slide into depression like - that. But at the same time I'm not obsessed with making millions as those in the OP - as long as I am comfortable that's fine with me.

All the successful people - I don't know, maybe they're just more driven in general.

Crucifix

hinault wrote: »

10,000 hours.

This reminds me of a short episode of Radiolab called the secrets of success that's a good listen for anyone interested in this topic. They talk to Malcolm Gladwell, and briefly touch on the various aspects that contribute to success like hard work, loving what you do, luck and circumstance. The 10,000 hour rule is one of the things they mentioned. It's here if anyone is interested.

hinault

feelingstressed wrote: »

Ah the curse of procrastination

If I wasn't such a fiend for it, I'd have a fit body, completed my professional exams years ago and started towards a few other goals

Bill Gates is known for the hours he put in when he was just starting
He would have succeeded at anything he wanted. Ok, he wouldn't be a billionaire as a surgeon maybe but if he went to medical school I've no doubt he'd make it

Some luck and circumstances made him what he is now but he'd be a success at whatever he tried to do.

I think this applies to many people in many fields.
Would Jack Nicklaus for example have been a great tennis player?
My view is that he probably wouldn't be as successful as he is a golfer but he would have worked bloody hard at becoming good.

This is what separates them from us, I think.
Being able to apply themselves and to see things through to the end come what may.

Call it the will to win or the killer instinct. The top people in their fields have it to a higher extent than others.
I read a very interesting interview about the US chess grandmaster Bobby Fischer. He practiced and practiced and lived chess. But it was his competitive urge which drove him. Playing a game of table tennis while preparing for his world title match, his opponent a journalist said that Fischer had to win the game of table tennis come what may. It didn't matter if he was 20-1 down with one point to play for, Fischer would go all out to try to get the points to win.
That is the difference.

psycjay

Al lot of the answers are about WHAT they do to become successful whereas OP is asking WHY they do it, and why don't other people also do it.

One of the features of the evolved brain is the ability to forgo short-term rewards, in favour of long-term rewards. In fact there are distinct areas of the brain that control both functions, with the long-term goal planning residing in the newly evolved frontal regions of the brain.

It has been shown that most people, given the choice, prefer an immediate but lesser reward, to a greater reward in the future. This is probably evolutionary, we we not designed to plan years into the future.

Perhaps highly successful people have an unusual capacity for inhibiting the short term rewards system, or even a deficiency in the short-term system. This would explain why they are the minority.

Most of us feel bad about procrastination but really it's just a feature of who we are!

Also, one of the previous posters made a very good point that above our basic needs, increased wealth does not make us any happier. This applies even to the super rich who often can be less happy than the average person.

nozzferrahhtoo

CorkMan wrote: »

These people obviously have to work very hard, but why do they do it while others don't? It is almost like hard work "isn't hard" for them.

Maybe they just love their jobs, and it really is as simple as that. I heard a phrase once that went something like "If you find a job you love, you will never work a day in your life".

In other words maybe your question is phrased wrong about whether hard work is not hard for them. To them it might not even seem like work at all.

Emme

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's fair enough if you're lucky enough to have the right opportunities in life and your hard work pays off, but I don't think that somebody who left school at 15 or 16 and guts fish all day for a living would like their work.

There are people in the world who work in mind-numbing jobs with dreadful conditions (sweatshop workers in the Far East) and stay there because they are supporting their entire families from these jobs.

drkpower

Emme wrote: »

but I don't think that somebody who left school at 15 or 16 and guts fish all day for a living would like their work.

Enjoyment can be found in (almost) every job if you take pride in it. Not non-stop enjjoyment, buy enjoyment nonetheless. Even Gates & Co dont enjoy work 100% of the time.

In ye olde college days, I did my fair share of menial, dull and typicallly uninteresting jobs. But hangover permitting, i tried to do them well because the fact that my fresh fruit was packed and presented well gave me a sense of pride and made me feell good about the job. Similarly, being uultra-helpfyul to a customer gave me a sense of enjoyment.

What appears to be more common now (or maybe its because i am grumpier!) is people who take little or no prode in their work, particularly in retail but im sure it is commone elsewhere. How can you hope to enjoy work if you dont care about it?

To me, there are 2 key points in this thread:

1. Caring about your work: Those that truly care and are truly interested in their work will work hard with much less of a sense that the work is 'hard'./
2. Drive: people have it to vastly differing degrees. Why? Who knows - im sure its a mixture of things but when someone really has that drive, you know it.

Jesus Wept

There are a lot more factors simply than 'hard work' that have led to these people attaining the positions they have.

Zombrex

CorkMan wrote: »

Look at the people who achieve a lot in life, entrepreneurs, executives, consultants. Individuals like Richard Branson, Jay-Z (who is worth over $450 million), 50 Cent (worth over $400 million), or Stauss Zelnick, CEO of Take-Two. He made over €140 million in 2009.

These people obviously have to work very hard, but why do they do it while others don't? It is almost like hard work "isn't hard" for them. They must be able to visualize their rewards or something very hard before they start working, to get them there.

If you want to be successful how hard you work on isn't nearly as important as what you work on.

Most people never achieve this sort of greatness because they either don't take the risk to work on something that could achieve this, or they do and they either fail due to not having the talent or simply bad luck.

amacachi

Personally speaking I enjoy free time far too much so I doubt I'll ever be in a typically high-stress kind of job. I'll also retire as early as possible.
The trouble is that due to years of no challenge at school etc. and then a year on the dole I've found it very hard to do anything that requires consistent attention. I've got an exam in 4 and a half hours that I have no chance of passing. It's the most "technical" subject I'm doing while I've breezed along in the most artsy-type subjects and even the middling ones are easy to pass.

Obviously I hope this will change at some point but I really doubt I'll ever be one of those people who loves to work. Funny thing is that I've learned a lot about things unrelated to my college course since I started it and probably did more reading on the topics we're doing a few years ago than I do now that I "have" to do it.

Damn procrastination. :pac:

fly_agaric

drkpower wrote: »

Enjoyment can be found in (almost) every job if you take pride in it. Not non-stop enjjoyment, buy enjoyment nonetheless. Even Gates & Co dont enjoy work 100% of the time.

In ye olde college days, I did my fair share of menial, dull and typicallly uninteresting jobs. .

I presume you felt that you were not trapped in such a job with no prospect of change except perhaps to another mindnumbing backbreaking lowpaying job!
That makes a difference.

drkpower

fly_agaric wrote: »

I presume you felt that you were not trapped in such a job with no prospect of change except perhaps to another mindnumbing backbreaking lowpaying job!
That makes a difference.

Perhaps.
But you could also look at it in reverse. I simply had to struggle through those jobs. If I had nothing 'better' to look forward to, I am inclined to believe that I would have had more motivation to do my job well, to take pride in it, both to make every day at work more enjoyable and to attempt to progress beyond the menial.

Emme

drkpower wrote: »

Perhaps.
But you could also look at it in reverse. I simply had to struggle through those jobs. If I had nothing 'better' to look forward to, I am inclined to believe that I would have had more motivation to do my job well, to take pride in it, both to make every day at work more enjoyable and to attempt to progress beyond the menial.

Say every attempt to progress beyond the menial was thwarted for years and you woke up one morning realising your life had passed you by but you were no further on than you were 20 years ago despite your best efforts? To add insult to injury, economic conditions force you to work longer hours for less pay in your menial job of 20 years.

Meanwhile your next door neighbour who is claiming social welfare appears to be better off financially than you, and he hasn't worked officially for the last 5 years and has no intention of doing so unless he can find a job that pays better than the dole and his nixers combined.

How would you feel then? Thousands of people in Ireland are in this situation. Work does not pay in this country unless you are very highly qualified or have political connections. There is no incentive to do an honest days work in an industrial or low to mid-level job in this country.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

drkpower

Emme wrote: »

Thousands of people in Ireland are in this situation. Work does not pay in this country unless you are very highly qualified or have political connections. There is no incentive to do an honest days work in an industrial or low to mid-level job in this country.

What a bleak picture you paint.

There are people who let 20 years go by and then look back at how nothing has changed, and there are people who work hard and progress. Qualifications may help, but they are not required in order to progress, and in particular, they are not necessarily required to do your job in a manner that make it more likely that you will enjoy it.

Emme

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Perhaps, but some people who work hard all their lives, including studying by night while working full time don't progress despite their best efforts.

drkpower wrote: »

What a bleak picture you paint.

There are people who let 20 years go by and then look back at how nothing has changed, and there are people who work hard and progress. Qualifications may help, but they are not required in order to progress, and in particular, they are not necessarily required to do your job in a manner that make it more likely that you will enjoy it.

I agree that those who let 20 years go by and do nothing to improve their lot have made their own beds, so to speak. I agree that qualifications aren't always necessary for progression, sometimes being a member of the right golf/GAA club is as good as anything else. If people are inclined by nature to work they will do so regardless of their circumstances, but hard work and focus doesn't necessarily bring rewards.

fly_agaric

drkpower wrote: »

Perhaps.
But you could also look at it in reverse. I simply had to struggle through those jobs. If I had nothing 'better' to look forward to, I am inclined to believe that I would have had more motivation to do my job well, to take pride in it, both to make every day at work more enjoyable and to attempt to progress beyond the menial.

If you could stay positive like that more "power" to you but most people (incl. yours truly) could not IMO. An amount of hard work may be needed for most people to have "success" but so much is really down to chance. Many (even those who were initially "hard workers") will become negative and cease to give a shít if dealt a bad hand too many times!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

dimiec

I believe that for those who do what they love, it is not work at all. As for those who gain success, I believe that it is self belief coupled with luck and talent that gets them there. Also I believe most people fear success and reject the idea of it and before someone tells me about people not having the opportunity or contacts or some such excuse, I personally do not subscribe to it based on my personal experience. I was taken out of school at 15 to work in a family business doing menial work (70-80 hours a week that worked out at €1.20 an hour). I left home at 18 worked a variety of menial jobs due to a lack of education, as I got older I did night classes to improve my job prospects got as a far as could without a degree. Then went to college as a mature student got a first class honours BA and MA. Not bad considering I don't even have the junior cert. Now during a recession I am earning more than I have ever done previously. I believe it is down to attitude and how you look at your chances. If you see walls, you will encounter them, if you see opportunities they will come your way.